1724 réponses à ce sujet

[Peter Thomas]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Yes but I dont think we know what status effects brittle, disorient, and stagger have on their own.

I'll just leave this here...

Brittle +50% critical damage taken
Stagger -25% attack, -25% defense
Disorient -50% defense
Obscure +20% dodge

[nightcobra]

Peter Thomas wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Yes but I dont think we know what status effects brittle, disorient, and stagger have on their own.

I'll just leave this here...

Brittle +50% critical damage taken
Stagger -25% attack, -25% defense
Disorient -50% defense
Obscure +20% dodge

thanks.


it's much appreciated:)

[Alodar]

Peter Thomas wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Yes but I dont think we know what status effects brittle, disorient, and stagger have on their own.

I'll just leave this here...

Brittle +50% critical damage taken
Stagger -25% attack, -25% defense
Disorient -50% defense
Obscure +20% dodge

That would make Dessicate and Death Hex an excellent combination.





Alodar

[Sylvius the Mad]

Mordaedil wrote...

The thing about leveling in computer games is that you never really get attached to a level anymore. You just try to go for the one higher.

I want time in each level to learn how to use my new abilities effectively, and then time to enjoy the fruits of that learning.  That's what 10 hours does - it lets us learn the optimal deployment of our abilities, and then we can use that optimal deployment and benefit from it.

If you just level up right away, you never had a chance to learn the last one.  You spend the whole game just guessing at what works.

Guessing isn't fun.  Learning is fun.

[Adhin]

Awesome info on the effects! Also I accidently screwed up the copy/paste

So speculation shortened - I think Reaver skill 'Devour' (if its still in, looks like it is by giantbomb video) is probably now an attack of some sort, convert dmg to mana like the mage skill but warrior oriented. I think this based off of the way corpses are handled, in that they just disapear near-instantly upon said things death. That is, unless they can be looted and all that.

So just makes me wonder if its single target or AoE based if it has been moved to a more offensive roll. If its single target I hope it has some kinda conditional bonus if you use it to kill off something. That'd be a nifty, hell would be nice if it was that way for AoE too. Either way hope thats still in some capacity and the teethy icon isn't for something else.

-edit-
Sylvius I can honestly say I am glad my mind is far different then yours. I dare say I'd be driven mad.

Modifié par Adhin, 22 février 2011 - 08:54 .

[-Skorpious-]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

The thing about leveling in computer games is that you never really get attached to a level anymore. You just try to go for the one higher.

I want time in each level to learn how to use my new abilities effectively, and then time to enjoy the fruits of that learning.  That's what 10 hours does - it lets us learn the optimal deployment of our abilities, and then we can use that optimal deployment and benefit from it.

If you just level up right away, you never had a chance to learn the last one.  You spend the whole game just guessing at what works.

Guessing isn't fun.  Learning is fun.

If I was forced to "learn" how to optimally use Shield Defense and Pommel Strike for the first 10 hours of the game I would lose my mind. Maybe if the game threw 10 talents at you from the start then your idea could work, but as of now DA2 is fine as it is. 

Also, is the animation for Shield Defense permanent? Will Shield Wall at least give Hawke better animations than mindlessly stabbing at enemies with his shield raised over his head? 

[Sylvius the Mad]

-Skorpious- wrote...

If I was forced to "learn" how to optimally use Shield Defense and Pommel Strike for the first 10 hours of the game I would lose my mind.

The first ten hours also involves learning the game's setting, and getting used to your character's personality and how it interacts with the other characters in the game.

[Adhin]

I think the thing that amuses me the most about all this is, with BG1-2 other then casters there weren't really any abilities to learn over the course of the game. No new game mechanics thrown in it was pretty much just the story. Level progression in BG for a Fighter was basically HP and THAC0. With 3rd Edition you get a new feat every 2-3 lvls.

Don't get me wrong I think having things drawn out a bit is a good idea. But I think, for the most part taking a lot of time to learn abilities is more of a self-time, muscle memory thing then a fundamental lack of understanding. If your incapable of 'guessing', that is, theorizing, looking at stats and coming up with methods that may have the potential to get a good use out of your said skills then your ultimately never going to learn anything very well. That's partly why I thought your 'guessing isn't fun, learning is' line was a bit silly. One leads to the other.

As to DA2 I think 1-25 in 50 hours is probably a good progression. Its not a static '1 lvl per 2 hours'. Early on its fast, and then by 10 it starts to heavily slow down. You'll probably be lvl 10, 10-15 hours in. Giving you a good 'base' of skills to function off of. Then afterwords your slowly adding to it for the other 35-40 hours.

Which is ultimately how DAO worked, and it worked well. The major difference im seeing between the 2, and why I think DA2 will ultimately work better in that regard is in DAO you always gained a completely new ability. And with the expansion, by 20+ you where getting new abilities that ultimately replaced older ones, or just got crap you never used. You had an ability overflow lets say. with DA2 upgrade system the 10+ lvls can be mostly upgrades, allowing you to 'grow' with out 'adding' completely new abilities.

In away its kind a 'grow at your own pace' type of deal. If you, personally Sylvius don't want to learn a completely new ability that quickly, you can just buy an upgrade for a pre-existing skill. You advance, but you don't have to add a new ability into your overall setup till later on.

[Icy Magebane]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

If I was forced to "learn" how to optimally use Shield Defense and Pommel Strike for the first 10 hours of the game I would lose my mind.

The first ten hours also involves learning the game's setting, and getting used to your character's personality and how it interacts with the other characters in the game.

It sounds like you just want to apply pen and paper conventions to video games.  What aspect of DA:O's setting would have taken 10 hours to understand?  Also, there isn't nearly enough dialogue in any game justify 10 hours worth of getting to know your character... if you had a DM and people to talk to, that would be fine.  That's not how video games work.

Anyway, on topic, thanks Peter and everyone who asked and answered questions here.  This is really helping me work on my main and party builds... so far, it looks like specilizations are just going to take a back seat to normal abilities.  There is no way (aside from unconfirmed tomes and possible side quests) to master more than 2 trees.
Then again, it all depends on the effectiveness of abilites without upgrades, etc, etc... So I'll just keep checking here for new info.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Adhin wrote...

I think the thing that amuses me the most about all this is, with BG1-2 other then casters there weren't really any abilities to learn over the course of the game.

I'll admit, I did pretty much just play casters.  And with spell memorisation, you did need to try out different sets of spells to see what worked best.

Don't get me wrong I think having things drawn out a bit is a good idea. But I think, for the most part taking a lot of time to learn abilities is more of a self-time, muscle memory thing then a fundamental lack of understanding. If your incapable of 'guessing', that is, theorizing, looking at stats and coming up with methods that may have the potential to get a good use out of your said skills then your ultimately never going to learn anything very well. That's partly why I thought your 'guessing isn't fun, learning is' line was a bit silly. One leads to the other.

Hypothesizing and testing does not equal guessing.

In away its kind a 'grow at your own pace' type of deal. If you, personally Sylvius don't want to learn a completely new ability that quickly, you can just buy an upgrade for a pre-existing skill. You advance, but you don't have to add a new ability into your overall setup till later on.

But that changes the ability I have.  Not only do I then have what is basically a new ability, but I've even lost the old one, so anything I've learned so far is worthless.

What you've described actually makes it worse, not better.

[Adhin]

That's untrue. It doesn't completely change the ability and thinking so is just blatant whining on your part. Mighty Blow, for instance stays the exact same but one upgrades its dmg (no other change but bonus dmg). And the other is bonus dmg only on a very specific instance. The core ability stays the EXACT SAME. This is true for all skills.

Hypothesizing and testing is guess work. Or well, Hypothesizing is Guess work based off information. Its an estimated plan to test out, but its ultimately guess work. And with the way you make this all sound, its like you don't even bother doing any of that in the first place. More like you just blindly flail about till you think you've figured something out. Which is a bit confusing but your always a bit confusing.

On one hand you seem to want the in depth information I want so I can plan things out and come up with tactics (prior to testing how well they work) and then at the same time you basically say you don't do that and just kinda go at it and try to learn from blindly flying forward - very very slowly.

Again, Hypothesis is guessing based off facts. And to learn anything efficiently you need to do that, its just good science.

Modifié par Adhin, 22 février 2011 - 10:56 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Adhin wrote...

Hypothesizing and testing is guess work.

But you're not forced to rely on the guesses.  They're just tools that lead you to actual knowledge.

I'm concerned that the game will advance so quickly that you'll actually have to use talents in life&death situations where you don't really know how they work together.  And that shouldn't happen.

[Sabresandiego]

The cooldowns for abilities in the demo are much shorter than the cooldowns listed in this thread. Which one is accurate?

[Jimsnb]

Theres no Dual wield spec on War?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Jimsnb wrote...

Theres no Dual wield spec on War?

There is not.

If you DW, then you're a Rogue.

[Adhin]

That's why I learn the basic systems before I start making stuff up as best I can Sylvius. I also like getting put into those situations where you have to think quickly. If you never get challenged like that, you ultimately wont ever get much of anywhere. It's like with WoW back when I played for a year. You could easily see this defining line between the few people who did what I did, and those who didn't. I spent my time learning the stats, how calculations work, and then built a character off the knowledge I had.

Others didn't understand much of anything, just knew they had abilities and 'went at it'. They blindly just played and ultimately didn't grow to much but they still did, mostly due to muscle memory and ability timing.

Worst offenders of the lot where people who literally bought an account with pre-made 60's. They lacked even the basic timing muscle memory and where horrible failures.

Ultimately learning the base mechanics, then theorizing a build up, coming up with what you think will work best and then testing that out 'in the field' is the best way to learn. It'll give you the best potential for actual growth. Doing either with out the other ultimately leaves you half empty lets say. Experience with out knowledge leads to a lot of bad habits, knowledge with out experience leads to a lot of wild guesses with no end point to justify, or the skill to accomplish, to what your saying (not your personally, just to the guessing/knowlege..thing).

I hope that made sense.

Modifié par Adhin, 22 février 2011 - 11:21 .

[Icy Magebane]

So... is there still a charge-up period for some spells, or is everything insta-cast now? Specifically low-level spells like Chain Lightning, which I assume has been used by people who played the demo.

[Adhin]

There doesn't seem to be a 'charge up' but some spells have very long cast animations. Try out the Fire Rainy skill thing. Mage plays through a pretty hefty cast animation but it starts up almost immediately. But yeah I think the 5 second cast times are a thing of the past (thankfully).

[Icy Magebane]

Adhin wrote...

There doesn't seem to be a 'charge up' but some spells have very long cast animations. Try out the Fire Rainy skill thing. Mage plays through a pretty hefty cast animation but it starts up almost immediately. But yeah I think the 5 second cast times are a thing of the past (thankfully).

Yeah I was a bit worried since it would be hard to time lightning after a warrior staggers an enemy... what you describe sounds reasonable enough though.

[Morroian]

Icy Magebane wrote...

So... is there still a charge-up period for some spells, or is everything insta-cast now? Specifically low-level spells like Chain Lightning, which I assume has been used by people who played the demo.

No they've been removed to make combat more responsive. Cooldowns have been altered to compensate though.

[Adhin]

Eww yeah... having Chain Lightnings DAO cast timer and trying to time that would be awful, horribly awful.

[dreamextractor]

Anyone write down Aveline + Varric's unique talents yet?

[dreamextractor]

Well, I just wrote down Aveline's

Aveline's Guardian tree:

Name: Serve and Protect
Required: Friendship
Description: Aveline’s dedication to Hawke verges on overbearing.
Damage transfer: 10% from Hawke to Aveline
Damage resistance: + 5%
Type: Passive Ability

Name: Watchful Eye
Required: Rivalry
Description: Recent events have put Aveline on her guard.
Damage resistance: +10%
Type: Passive Ability

Name: Retaliation
Required: Level 9
Description: For a short time, melee strikes against Aveline are met with an instant counterattack.
Physical damage: 7 per counterattack
Duration: 10s
Cooldown: 20s
Type: Activated Ability

Name: Retribution
Required: Level 13, Retaliation, 2 points in Guardian tree
Description: Retaliation now lasts longer and inflicts more damage with each counterattack.
Physical damage: +7 per counterattack
Duration: +5s
Type: Upgrade

Name: Immovable
Required: Level 7
Description:
While this mode is active, Aveline sacrifices movement and attack speed for resilience to incoming blows. Every hit she suffers increases her hardiness even further, but also slows her more and more.
Damage resistance: Stacking +2% per hit
Attack speed: Stacking -5% per hit
Movement speed: Stacking -5% per hit
Duration: 5s per hit
Reserved: 10% of stamina
Cooldown: 10s
Type: Sustained mode

Name: Unstoppable
Required: Level 11, Immovable, 2 points in Guardian tree
Description: Aveline is slowed less while immovable is active.
Attack speed: Stacking -3% per hit
Movement speed: Stacking -3% per hit
Type: Upgrade

Name: Thick Skin
Required: Level 11, Immovable
Description: Long years on the front lines have made Aveline unusually durable.
Damage resistance: +15%
Type: Passive Ability

Name: Bodyguard
Required: Level 8, Immovable, Retaliation
Description: While this mode is active, Aveline shields a targeted party member, taking damage on his or her behalf.
Damage transfer: 20% from target to Aveline
Reserved: 10% of stamina
Cooldown: 5s
Type: Sustained mode

Name: Elite Body Guard
Required: Level 12, Bodyguard, 2 points in Guardian tree
Description: Aveline increases her aid to a party member, suffering even more damage on the party members behalf.
Damage transfer: +25% from target to Aveline

Modifié par dreamextractor, 23 février 2011 - 01:55 .

[Icy Magebane]

Hm... thanks for the info. The wiki should probably be updated because a lot of the Guardian skills are flat out wrong. These level requirements are much more logical (and possible).

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

thanks fo rthe info....cant wait for my spirit/primal mage