1724 réponses à ce sujet

[Adhin]

You can pan just not detach, 2 separate things. I think the main reason they did this was trying to keep everything consistent. Once you can detach the camera from the PC/Companions you have to start making encounters specifically for that as it will, ultimately, make things easier. And then you get that awkward mess between the platforms where they tried to compensate on the consoles but ended up just making things a bit weird.

On a mostly unrelated topic to that is, not sure if you watched it but some dude reviewing the demo and talking while he played it. Someone linked it (few times) on youtube. The mans use of the camera was horrid, he was trying to play it like the birds-eye view isometric detached and almost never span the camera around. Just kept staring at the floor, cursing the bad camera for not letting him see what was going on. Which I found kinda amusing since the fights are based off you angling it more horizontally then 'stare at the floor' thing.

That said I was pretty sure you could pan out further then that in retail, demo felt a bit more constrained then what I remember seeing in other previews. Meh.

[Naitaka]

Adhin wrote...
*snip

It still makes it very hard to aim aoe spell at max range properly. For example, the part in the demo where there're 3 Hurlock archer on a rise in the distance. I had to reaim my fireball many times to make sure it gets all 3 target because their health bar overlapse each other. Also, strategy such as sending a lone stealthed rogue, and then have my mage cast spell at enemy that's not directly on his/her LoS wouldn't work in this case either because as soon as I change selection to the mage, the camera will snap away from my scouting rogue.

[Tleining]

@ Naitaka

doesn't that make the game more realistic? I always thought of that as exploiting a weakness in the game design. Like the Archers ability to attack a group one by one, without tem ever reacting to you.

[Adhin]

little bit, but thats how it works on consoles Naitaka. Personally I would of preferred it (both in DAO and DA2) if the camera 'attached' to the fireball (or other target stuff) and you 'walk it over' kinda thing like you do now but have the camera directly follow you know?

But yeah Tleining has a bit of a point (not so much realistic), it definitely adds a bit more challenge to it. I don't really think that challenge in just placing a target market should be there. But it can give you a good idea of what your mage at there angle can see with out having to run around somewhere. And keeps you from targetting things way out of your actual fire range. They limited how far you could move the targetting in DAO on console based off the kind of spell (and its range). Not sure if DA2 is doing that, I hope not. Don't like having to move them in real-time just to re-target.

[Naitaka]

Tleining wrote...

@ Naitaka
doesn't that make the game more realistic? I always thought of that as exploiting a weakness in the game design. Like the Archers ability to attack a group one by one, without tem ever reacting to you.

Well, that's true I guess. I just had too much fun casting Storm of the Century on unsuspecting enemies and throwing down a glype of repulsion when they try to get to my mage you know.

Adhin wrote...

little bit, but thats how it works on consoles Naitaka. Personally I would of preferred it (both in DAO and DA2) if the camera 'attached' to the fireball (or other target stuff) and you 'walk it over' kinda thing like you do now but have the camera directly follow you know?

That is a great idea, and now that you mentioned it, The Last Story uses that exact system for its spell casting and I didn't have problem with that game's camera even though there's no tactical view for it. They should really use it for DA3.

Modifié par Naitaka, 25 février 2011 - 01:34 .

[Rocambole4]

Adhin wrote...

little bit, but thats how it works on consoles Naitaka. Personally I would of preferred it (both in DAO and DA2) if the camera 'attached' to the fireball (or other target stuff) and you 'walk it over' kinda thing like you do now but have the camera directly follow you know?
But yeah Tleining has a bit of a point (not so much realistic), it definitely adds a bit more challenge to it. I don't really think that challenge in just placing a target market should be there. But it can give you a good idea of what your mage at there angle can see with out having to run around somewhere. And keeps you from targetting things way out of your actual fire range. They limited how far you could move the targetting in DAO on console based off the kind of spell (and its range). Not sure if DA2 is doing that, I hope not. Don't like having to move them in real-time just to re-target.

Actually Adhin, I agree to a certain point.

Having the camera detached and only allowed to move (or see through fog of war) where your chars have true LoS is win imo. It allows you to use rogues in stealth as "spotters" to you "artilery" (the mages, of course).

Also, not having it doesn't balance the game if storm + glyph is imba - you just have to send in a tank with Indomitable (or shield wall + shield expertise on higher lvs), throw in a Grease and then Firestorm the room. The effect is pretty much the same.

Also, "thats how it works on consoles" is not much of an argumento imho... you know, everyone agree the PC version of Origins is superior, so why not use superior aspects in the console version of DA2 instead of doing the other way around - removing the cool aspects of the PC version?

Anyway, I guess we're past this discussion now. What's in the game is in the game, what's not in the game is not in the game. DA2 looks amazing anyway and I can't wait to play it

[Adhin]

Yeah for sure. Even with the way it works now I'm fine. Some videos I've seen of the PC version and it kinda 'snapping' to enemies when your trying to line it up 'just right' on the ground though...guh. That would drive me absolutely batty. But I think they've addressed that (hopefully). Im on Console so I wont have to deal with it but the idea it would be there on PC still irks me on a fundamental game design way.

[Rocambole4]

Adhin wrote...

Yeah for sure. Even with the way it works now I'm fine. Some videos I've seen of the PC version and it kinda 'snapping' to enemies when your trying to line it up 'just right' on the ground though...guh. That would drive me absolutely batty. But I think they've addressed that (hopefully). Im on Console so I wont have to deal with it but the idea it would be there on PC still irks me on a fundamental game design way.

I think they could compromise adding a line to each and every ranged spell: "requires direct LoS" (or not).

So if the mage is able to cast spells without direct LoS requirement (considering it's in range) when called by a spotter, it could be casted "detaching" the camera (the camera would detach as you clicked the spell). Otherwise, you'd have to aim it using the mage shoulder cam.

Anyway, we're kicking a dead dog here. Let's think of some more clever questions to Peter, I'm really enjoying him explaining every gameplay mechanic to us in this thread

[Rocambole4]

Peter, I have three questions.

Exactly how is Aggro calculated? I'm asking because I'm afraid the huge burst damage from CCC could end up making my mage (or rogue) the target while Taunt is on cooldown, and that's not exactly ideal. So, should I also think about rage management when trying to maximize CCC bursts or will it be safe to just destroy everything as fast as possible?

About Assail with the Besiege upgrade; when a 2h warrior is hitting multiple enemies, will each hit cause collateral damage on the other targets that are also being hit by the swing itself, causing a chain reaction of multiple hits per enemy?

Also, on Lacerate, how long dos the bleed take to do full damage? Is the bleed DoT stackable? Can it crit? in affirmative case, is the crit agi-based?

Thanks again.

Modifié par Rocambole4, 25 février 2011 - 02:54 .

[Adhin]

I know they've stated elsewhere aggro is calculated exactly the same way as DAO. Though I'd imagine its entirely damage based instead of the awkward, hidden bonus aggro and whatnot that didn't always work right.

I would like to know though how the threat generation stuff works besides taunt and other transfer. For instance I know taunt literally puts the tank to the top of the threat list and dumps everyone else, its a transfer. The rogue one dumps the thread on the target of there picking and all the enemies end up going for the next biggest target on there list.

What I 'really' want to know is Bravery, specifically Bravado upgrade says it does 50% threat generation per target past the first. But the description says it 'draws in more enemies'. So every tick (second or 2 or whatever) does it basically transfer thread like taunt does, via a % value, or....does it just increase the warriors threat rating by that percent an thus can effect things well outside the 10m radius?

[Rocambole4]

Adhin wrote...

I know they've stated elsewhere aggro is calculated exactly the same way as DAO. Though I'd imagine its entirely damage based instead of the awkward, hidden bonus aggro and whatnot that didn't always work right.
I would like to know though how the threat generation stuff works besides taunt and other transfer. For instance I know taunt literally puts the tank to the top of the threat list and dumps everyone else, its a transfer. The rogue one dumps the thread on the target of there picking and all the enemies end up going for the next biggest target on there list.
What I 'really' want to know is Bravery, specifically Bravado upgrade says it does 50% threat generation per target past the first. But the description says it 'draws in more enemies'. So every tick (second or 2 or whatever) does it basically transfer thread like taunt does, via a % value, or....does it just increase the warriors threat rating by that percent an thus can effect things well outside the 10m radius?

Playing the Demo I noticed most mobs would run right through me and engage  the tank unless I hit them first - even if the tank was still doing nothing. So I believe there's some kind of aggro "aura", maybe based on armor. Or maybe it was only my impression. I'd like to know tough. Maybe a multiplier for damage aggro based on armor? Pure damage aggro couldn't work, the tank will always have lower DPS after all.

[Adhin]

No your right I definitely saw that happening in too. In DAO they had this whole 'radius' thing, basically if your right next to them you get a +100 threat. So they'd with out any other source, always go for the closest. There could easily be some kind of individual threat bonus based off what they've been doing. Cause I know I've seen things just go after the mage anyways in the same situation, but I think thats usually cause the mage was blasting AoE non-stop.

Either way with that example you gave... there has to be something else going on, some kind of refined aggro system in the background then. Cause in DAO it was always who's closest before anything else effected them.

-edit-
Oh then I know they also have special units that're listed as assassins or whatever that have there own general aggro behavior. Like they favor mages rather specifically, coming into a battle field friend mages have a high priority in there list so unless taunted they'll ignore everything else.

Which there is an 'assassin' titled mob in the last encounter in the demo. I think a lot of people may not of noticed them but they're off the pillar to the left kinda hidden away and they instantly go for Hawke/Bethany after using a stealth thing. I noticed em on I think my 3rd play through, its so damn easy on normal It didn't really trigger initially.

Modifié par Adhin, 25 février 2011 - 04:02 .

[Rocambole4]

Adhin wrote...
...
-edit-
Oh then I know they also have special units that're listed as assassins or whatever that have there own general aggro behavior. Like they favor mages rather specifically, coming into a battle field friend mages have a high priority in there list so unless taunted they'll ignore everything else.

Which there is an 'assassin' titled mob in the last encounter in the demo. I think a lot of people may not of noticed them but they're off the pillar to the left kinda hidden away and they instantly go for Hawke/Bethany after using a stealth thing. I noticed em on I think my 3rd play through, its so damn easy on normal It didn't really trigger initially.

YEah, assassins always attack mages first, I'm ok with it, it's what you sxpect fro ma stealth unit after all, not going for the full plate warrior spearheading the charge.

But I liked the change, I just want to know how exactly that works. Leading with my rogue in the demo was much nicer now, they simply ignored me and let me reach the weak ranged units since I avoided attacking the ones runing to the tank.

I mean, it's it's an arbitrary aggro added to the squad member with greater amor (say, all mobs have 1 aggro against him once they can see him), it's one thing. The first attack would always change the target of that NPC.

If it's a hidden aggro aura tough, after some seconds you could even attack someone not being hit by the tank without drawing aggro.

[Peter Thomas]

Rocambole4 wrote...

Peter, can we have a complete list of Nightmare changes so we can plan accordingly? Is the enemy HP the same? Just resistances/defense changes? Enemies hit harder?

I know spells doesn't last the same as in normal, but any other global debuff to your party?

Enemy health is increased. Enemy damage is increased. Enemy force is increased. Enemy cooldowns are decreased. Hostile effect durations on enemies are decreased. Less health potions drop. Enemies heal themselves more often. Party members can have more injuries. Some enemies have additional effects on their abilities (dispel, bypass damage resistance, steal health potions, etc) as well as some miscellaneous things (like the combat cooldown reset not being present). There may be others.

[Peter Thomas]

Naitaka wrote...

Adhin wrote...
*snip

It still makes it very hard to aim aoe spell at max range properly. For example, the part in the demo where there're 3 Hurlock archer on a rise in the distance. I had to reaim my fireball many times to make sure it gets all 3 target because their health bar overlapse each other. Also, strategy such as sending a lone stealthed rogue, and then have my mage cast spell at enemy that's not directly on his/her LoS wouldn't work in this case either because as soon as I change selection to the mage, the camera will snap away from my scouting rogue.

In the final game, a lot of AoEs can be targeted on creatures as well.

[Taleroth]

Peter Thomas wrote...

In the final game, a lot of AoEs can be targeted on creatures as well.

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[falconlord5]

Peter Thomas wrote...

Rocambole4 wrote...

Peter, can we have a complete list of Nightmare changes so we can plan accordingly? Is the enemy HP the same? Just resistances/defense changes? Enemies hit harder?

I know spells doesn't last the same as in normal, but any other global debuff to your party?

Enemy health is increased. Enemy damage is increased. Enemy force is increased. Enemy cooldowns are decreased. Hostile effect durations on enemies are decreased. Less health potions drop. Enemies heal themselves more often. Party members can have more injuries. Some enemies have additional effects on their abilities (dispel, bypass damage resistance, steal health potions, etc) as well as some miscellaneous things (like the combat cooldown reset not being present). There may be others.

Holy mother. And I thought normal was hard...

[Altima Darkspells]

Peter Thomas wrote...

 steal health potions

Oh that is just mean.

[The Elder King]

Peter Thomas wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

Adhin wrote...
*snip

It still makes it very hard to aim aoe spell at max range properly. For example, the part in the demo where there're 3 Hurlock archer on a rise in the distance. I had to reaim my fireball many times to make sure it gets all 3 target because their health bar overlapse each other. Also, strategy such as sending a lone stealthed rogue, and then have my mage cast spell at enemy that's not directly on his/her LoS wouldn't work in this case either because as soon as I change selection to the mage, the camera will snap away from my scouting rogue.

In the final game, a lot of AoEs can be targeted on creatures as well.

Even on console?

[Peter Thomas]

Adhin wrote...

What I 'really' want to know is Bravery, specifically Bravado upgrade says it does 50% threat generation per target past the first. But the description says it 'draws in more enemies'. So every tick (second or 2 or whatever) does it basically transfer thread like taunt does, via a % value, or....does it just increase the warriors threat rating by that percent an thus can effect things well outside the 10m radius?

It increases all threat the Warrior does by that percentage against anyone at any range. Only enemies within the radius are used to calculate the size of the bonus.

[Rocambole4]

Enemy health is increased. Enemy damage is increased. Enemy force is increased. Enemy cooldowns are decreased. Hostile effect durations on enemies are decreased. Less health potions drop. Enemies heal themselves more often. Party members can have more injuries. Some enemies have additional effects on their abilities (dispel, bypass damage resistance, steal health potions, etc) as well as some miscellaneous things (like the combat cooldown reset not being present). There may be others.
[/quote]

WoW! Steal POTIONS?!?

Dam rogues!

I actually lol'd here. Man, now I'm afraid of rogues. The'll steal my pots when I'm almost at a boss fight! Can I have the same ability with my rogue please? XD

[Altima Darkspells]

Does stealing potions start the potion cooldown?



Because that would be hilarious.

[Peter Thomas]

Rocambole4 wrote...

Peter, I have three questions.

Exactly how is Aggro calculated? I'm asking because I'm afraid the huge burst damage from CCC could end up making my mage (or rogue) the target while Taunt is on cooldown, and that's not exactly ideal. So, should I also think about rage management when trying to maximize CCC bursts or will it be safe to just destroy everything as fast as possible?

Aggro is based on a couple factors, including class, distance, and damage. Warriors generate more threat than Rogues, who generate more threat than Mages. If you trigger 600% damage from a CCC effect with a Mage, that Mage will gain all the threat from that damage, but it would be less threat than a Warrior would gain from the same amount of damage.

About Assail with the Besiege upgrade; when a 2h warrior is hitting multiple enemies, will each hit cause collateral damage on the other targets that are also being hit by the swing itself, causing a chain reaction of multiple hits per enemy?

If they're all on top of each other, they would each take the direct damage from the Warrior, as well as secondary damage from each of the AoE explosions. 3 guys would take 3 hits each (1 from the Warrior, 2 secondary from the other guys).

Also, on Lacerate, how long dos the bleed take to do full damage? Is the bleed DoT stackable? Can it crit? in affirmative case, is the crit agi-based?

Lacerate damage takes effect over 5s. The DoT is stackable. It's damage is based on attack damage, so if the attack crits, the DoT would too. Dexterity modifies crit chance for everyone.

[Peter Thomas]

falconlord5 wrote...

Holy mother. And I thought normal was hard...

Oh yeah, if you're below 10% health, you start bleeding to death.

Modifié par Peter Thomas, 25 février 2011 - 07:51 .