1724 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

falconlord5 wrote...

'Cause getting one-shotted is a right pain in the ass?

If I'm not routinely one-shotting major opponents, then this isn't a problem.

It's not a problem at all if they just adjust the scale.  Instead of having enemy damage and player HP on one scale and player damage and enemy HP on another, just make them the same.

[falconlord5]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

falconlord5 wrote...

'Cause getting one-shotted is a right pain in the ass?

If I'm not routinely one-shotting major opponents, then this isn't a problem.

It's not a problem at all if they just adjust the scale.  Instead of having enemy damage and player HP on one scale and player damage and enemy HP on another, just make them the same.

I somehow doubt that we will be able to one-shot major opponents.

1000 HP is awfully low for even a mini-boss, never mind a full-fledged pain in the rear end.

[Sabresandiego]

If you think about it, damage can scale wildly compared to constitution, especially if you don't invest in constitution every level. At the higher levels, it might be very easy to accidentally one shot your companions with friendly fire.

Imagine this: you are an offensive mage and invest 2 mag 1 wil every level with no investment in constitution. Your companion is a rogue who went 1 dex 2 cun every level. By level 10-15 both characters are significantly stronger offensively but have hardly improved defensively at all (cunning improves defense but friendly fire always hits). So technically you could accidentally 1 shot yourself or your rogue companion if you misfire.

Who knows if constitution is enough to counteract this, but its possible that constitution may be an important stat for every character on nightmare.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 01 mars 2011 - 12:00 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

falconlord5 wrote...

I somehow doubt that we will be able to one-shot major opponents.

1000 HP is awfully low for even a mini-boss, never mind a full-fledged pain in the rear end.

Right, but apparently we can do 1000 HP in a shot, and that would be a bad thing to hit our companions with.

This further suggests that major opponents don't hit as hard as we do.

[Morroian]

Its been suggested in the SUPER SPOILER thread that values for attributes (strength etc.) can only go up to 85 or 86. Peter or anyone is this true?

[Phoenixblight]

Are all of the spell trees available at the start of the game? I ask because I was thinking of going spirit and entropy.

[Adhin]

The base 6 are yes Phoenixblight, the 3 specializations aren't.

[lazuli]

Sabresandiego wrote...

If you think about it, damage can scale wildly compared to constitution, especially if you don't invest in constitution every level. At the higher levels, it might be very easy to accidentally one shot your companions with friendly fire.

And this is what's making me nervous about hidden AOE's like Winter's Grasp or Scythe.

[Phoenixblight]

Adhin wrote...

The base 6 are yes Phoenixblight, the 3 specializations aren't.

Sweet thanks wasn't sure because that wasn't the case in the demo. I knew that the specializations wouldn't be unlockable from the get go because you get spec point at 7 and 14. 

[Adhin]

Yeah and if you compare demo (old build) to stuff on the 1st page you'll notice level requirements aren't quite as insane. A lot of level requirement in the demo where absurd.

[Haplose]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...
cunning improves defense but friendly fire always hits

This doesn't make sense. It completely disables a significant part of game content, and it's unrealistic. Say what's the difference between a friendly Fireball an enemy Fireball? Don't fires burn in the same way?

If realism is taken into consideration, companions should have a higher defense against FF AOE attacks, because the attacker can warn them before hand, giving them a higher chance to dodge. FF should deal the same damage when they hit, but should hit less often, i.e. not a Damage reduction but a Defense increase.

I disagree. It's all about battle awareness and dodging. Well, you don't expect a stab from your friend with whom you fight back-to-back. So it's easier to dodge enemy attacks then those of friendlies.

Of course it's possible that a companion has prepared for an aoe attack and gave a warning shout in advance. But I guess the idea is that most friendlies caught in the blast are by accident/mistake, rather then planned.

[Maclimes]

Haplose wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...
cunning improves defense but friendly fire always hits

This doesn't make sense. It completely disables a significant part of game content, and it's unrealistic. Say what's the difference between a friendly Fireball an enemy Fireball? Don't fires burn in the same way?

If realism is taken into consideration, companions should have a higher defense against FF AOE attacks, because the attacker can warn them before hand, giving them a higher chance to dodge. FF should deal the same damage when they hit, but should hit less often, i.e. not a Damage reduction but a Defense increase.

I disagree. It's all about battle awareness and dodging. Well, you don't expect a stab from your friend with whom you fight back-to-back. So it's easier to dodge enemy attacks then those of friendlies.

Of course it's possible that a companion has prepared for an aoe attack and gave a warning shout in advance. But I guess the idea is that most friendlies caught in the blast are by accident/mistake, rather then planned.

Bull pucky. In Origins, Alistair was always the center point of every fireball I cast.

Pure accident, of course ... 

[Crocodiles]

Does sending your enemies crashing into the environment cause extra damage? I ask because of the force mage spec, since it's reminiscent of the adept/jedi

[Adhin]

FF isn't lower damage for skill use. The 'glancing blow' thing is 100% only base auto attack and that means its purely a warrior thing. Thing your missing is ALL SKILLS, always hit. Period. Fireball, Whirlwind, whatever doesn't matter. Every skill always hits, completely ignores the **** out of the defense score. That's only for auto-attack.

So your fireball always does the same dmg to your buds as it does to enemies (except once you count resistance of course, that'll vary stuff). But yes for auto-attack its always a hit, which is always converted into a glancing blow. Or its more right to say 'misses' for players are converted into glancing blows, and hits are always converted into 'misses' for FF with warrior attack. It's just that, in NM (with FF on) that means a glancing blow as miss = glancing blow.

Your still doing 100% dmg with everything else. Personally I'd love it if Warriors base attack wasn't FF enabled while all there skills where but I get why it is FF and that'll make the game more interesting to be sure.

[Shinimas]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...
cunning improves defense but friendly fire always hits

This doesn't make sense. It completely disables a significant part of game content, and it's unrealistic. Say what's the difference between a friendly Fireball an enemy Fireball? Don't fires burn in the same way?

If realism is taken into consideration, companions should have a higher defense against FF AOE attacks, because the attacker can warn them before hand, giving them a higher chance to dodge. FF should deal the same damage when they hit, but should hit less often, i.e. not a Damage reduction but a Defense increase.

Because you don't expect that. Close combat is clear and maybe when you resist magic it means you're actively counterspelling it somehow... imagination, imagination. That's why big swords were never popular on the battlefield, your friend won't appreciate getting his head chopped off during one of your broad swings.

[Adhin]

Seriously the lower damage is just the Warriors auto-attack. FF is 100% otherwise, and usually FF doesn't even take into account melee attacks! or special melee moves. DAO didn't, you couldn't hit your buddies with a 2H'ers Whirlwind, or weapon sweep. All the FF was from AoE potion and Mage spells. The fact they've actually added FF in for rogue/warrior abilities (and warrior base attack which is where this whining isn't properly directed) is just some extra tactical depth to the whole formula.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I hope companions are intelligent enough to know how to avoid doing FF.

[Adhin]

Doubtful, you'll have to setup tactic AI to account for that if you actually want them to avoid using AoE abilities on your party members. Personally I find it easier to set them up to use non-FF based stuff (like primal tree, and basic CC stuff, curses), and manually use the AoE stuff your self with you need it. That kind of thing lets me basically play my character majority of the time, and then basically call off a single big AoE where I need it exactly to get the most benefit with out harming my own party.

[Joy Divison]

Sabresandiego wrote...

If you think about it, damage can scale wildly compared to constitution, especially if you don't invest in constitution every level. At the higher levels, it might be very easy to accidentally one shot your companions with friendly fire.

+1.  Or worse, my companions one-shotting me.  My companions are expendable, of course

[Xewaka]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
I hope companions are intelligent enough to know how to avoid doing FF.

That depends entirely on how well you manage them. Nightmare is intended to be completed if and only if you take direct control off the whole party and have leveled it right.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Xewaka wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
I hope companions are intelligent enough to know how to avoid doing FF.

That depends entirely on how well you manage them. Nightmare is intended to be completed if and only if you take direct control off the whole party and have leveled it right.

All of my DA:O playthroughs were on NM except for the first one, so I think I'll manage.   I was just hoping for an intelligent AI. In DA:O I just had to worry about spells and not my tanks slashing each other to death. The party leader really should not have to say, "Hey dude, don't whirlwind the rogue to death!!" or "Hey mage, try not to hit us with your fireball!"

A higher difficulty level should be about increased challenges but not about stupidity of your pary members.

[Atmosfear3]

For all the Min-maxer enthusiasts, I highly recommend you visit http://social.biowar...1/index/6289395 and try out the gibbed mod to enable nightmare mode. I don't know about others, but Nightmare kicked my ass with my 2H WarHawke. Couldn't even make it past the Emissary fight! Seems dps-warrior heavy groups are going to be non-existent as theres simply far too much FF flying around. I even managed to kill Aveline when she stood behind a Hurlock as I performed a Might Blow.

Modifié par Atmosfear3, 01 mars 2011 - 04:06 .

[Naitaka]

Ok, I just tried DA2 demo on Nightmare thanks to gibbed's mod. Did a playthrough for each class and as we predicted, FF does 100% damage on allies, which means any spell you cast in the kirkwall section can and will instant K.O. any of your party member. A simple fireball does 260 damage which is more than Aveline will have even if I dump most of her points into Con. Carver is an absolute "nightmare" for the team, he pretty much 1 shot my Aveline as soon as the combat started by using mighty blow on the boss. Now I see why Peter say that Giant's Reach is a bad idea.

By far rogue archer seems to be the easiest class to play on NM in the demo so far. Maybe it's because of the overpowered bow, but if the number is anything remotely similiar in retail, FF is going to be a massive pain in the arse. Also, it seems that archers do FF on line of attack as well.  Nevermind, my bad.

So far, my experience with NM in the demo:
Wiped once with mage Hawke
Wiped twice with 2-handed Hawke
Wiped 0 time with archer Hawke
Wiped 0 time with DW Hawke, by far the fastest run.
Wiped 0 time with W&S Hawke, pretty easy as well.

Modifié par Naitaka, 01 mars 2011 - 05:08 .

[Zhel_Ryn]

Warrior heavy parties are plausible, but likely you'll want to send them at seperate groups of enemies as much as possible. Same experiences as Naitaka for the most part though. My archer run was by far the easiest to manage, albeit knowing to completely disable Beth's Fireball tactic helped a lot lol. Two handed tank was great fun though, very happy with that run (group didn't ever wipe, but Hawke died to Beth during the Emmissary fight). =P

Something I noted: Miasmic Flask didn't seem to FF Carver or Aveline, or at least, didn't stun. I did see them move much slower once in a while though.

Another thought: Stonewall/Bulwark and Barrier/Arcane Fortress; these upgraded may be very worthwhile for a tactical "bomb the tank" situation.

Modifié par Zhel_Ryn, 01 mars 2011 - 04:18 .