1724 réponses à ce sujet

[Adhin]

You must of completely ignored the hit example I put out. If you take that into account, your better off just keeping might on for the adds 'and' the bosses. Here's the quote:

Peter Thomas wrote...

The basis for combat is that a two-handed weapon should kill a critter rank hurlock in ~4.2 hits. That's how enemy health and weapon damage is related.

4.2 hits. Might lets you kill them in 4 hits all the time, 3 hits with a crit or 2. Anything else is 5 hits with a chance of 4 with 1-2 crits. So your Crit chance? is just the %chance you'd kill it in 4, instead of 5.

For the boss, and the adds, Might would produce a quicker effect...sort of. Elite+ start eating into your %chance to hit them I believe. Kinda like how your Armor becomes less effective and your Defense becomes less effective. In that the 10% hit chance Control provides may, ultimately, be of greater benefit then Might Would. As hitting more often in the longer fight would, ultimately could yield more damage. Add to that the 10% crit chance, and the fact the fight will take longer giving you a greater chance you'll get multiple crits in and....yeah.

I still think upgraded Control is better for bosses (barring any setups like Death Hex and the like), Might is better for mooks. If you have 100% hit chance vs all, then Might is universally better.

-edit-
Keep in mind also that since you can only have 1, Might or Control, swapping between should be easy and wont consume Stamina as it just will replace your reserve. So you could keep Control on, swap to might when the Death Hex in coming to try and maximize your damage, then switch back once Death Hex wares off.

That kinda things completely viable overall. But Might is ultimately going to be more useful for weak adds, if its adds full of Elites then that all gets thrown out the window, and a whole new stat would have to be thought up specifically for that. But basic number setup that everythings balanced around doesn't just disapear.

Modifié par Adhin, 05 mars 2011 - 06:17 .

[Peter Thomas]

Adhin wrote...

Course in most RPG's that 10% dmg would also effect critical strike dmg, but I think DA2 (unless Peter says otherwise) is literally just a chance to do +50% more dmg, instead of 150% of your dmg after everything else has been figured.

Base Damage
* Ability Factor
* Bonus Factor (includes things like that 10% bonus to specific damage types)
* Hit Result Factor (glance, critical hit, etc)

[Peter Thomas]

Adhin wrote...

4.2 hits. Might lets you kill them in 4 hits all the time, 3 hits with a crit or 2. Anything else is 5 hits with a chance of 4 with 1-2 crits. So your Crit chance? is just the %chance you'd kill it in 4, instead of 5.

Just a note on the 4.2 number. That's assuming the player progresses at a certain rate. So it assumes you get a certain amount of bonus damage from various sources (passives, modes, equipment, etc) as well as tries to factor in average ability damage.

At level 1, it assumes no bonuses, so it literally is 4.2. As you get more levels, it goes up, assuming those other factors.

[Adhin]

Wait so strength is basically % dmg? So If you had say Might on, 40 str, and you did a crit with lets say base 50 dmg. That'd be: 50 * 1.3 * 1.1 * 1.5 = 107.25?

Guess that depends on what strength translates into exactly. But that would basically mean the 10% bonus dmg would have an effect on how big your critical hits are in a bigger way then if it was all just 'added together' first. So that's good.

And you do lose attack% chance on higher rank monsters right? If you do definitely makes control's 10% Attack bit more appealing.

[-Skorpious-]

Somewhat of a related question for Peter - do you have any idea if the marketing team plans to release the talents for specializations?

[jomonoe]

@adhin.
Oops didn't mean to ignore that example. I now understand your example. I shall pose another question. What if the crit chance were at 30-40%? I think that that can be achieved with sunder, command, valiant aura, and bravery. I think that if I am able to get the crit chance up to these levels then keeping command on may be better for large groups of mobs than the 10% of might. Just throwing around ideas btw, I sometimes sound confrontational when posting without meaning to what with the lack of tone of voice.

[Peter Thomas]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Somewhat of a related question for Peter - do you have any idea if the marketing team plans to release the talents for specializations?

No idea, sorry.

[Zhel_Ryn]

@Adhin: The 1.3 I assume is (Str-10)%? Not sure how that changed in retail; demo was 0.5 damage per strength ((50+15)*1.1*1.5=107.25, same value in this case due to 65/50=1.3). Hmmm.

As for Control vs. Might; Math says at base (no +dmg from Str, no other buffs, 1% crit, 50%cdmg, guesstimate 60% hit chance vNm) that Control is better than Might. If you increase +Dmg% or +CDmg, the difference becomes larger, and if you increase Hit% or Crit%, the difference becomes much smaller. Unless the Hit% takes a severe drop though (ala vs Boss), the difference isn't staggering (~10%). Between nothing but Control vs. Might, Control is best against a boss(~20% over Might). Group of normal mobs, it's not too big a difference.

TL:DR...Low level/low bonuses, Control outpaces Might. End-game/high bonuses, the difference is miniscule. The biggest benefit of Might > Control would be increased chances for causing knockback/knockdown, due to each attack being more damaging. This is not including the impact of Strength since neither modifies it, as well as spells/talent buffs that introduce multiple floatie damage sources (ala Elemental Weapon, assuming Beseige as well).

@jomonoe: Might would improve the most from an increased base crit chance (before Might/Control). This is due to the 10% Crit Chance being a smaller proportioned increase. Same thing happens with increasing Hit%; Reverse is true with increasing Dmg%/CDmg%.

Modifié par Zhel_Ryn, 05 mars 2011 - 08:13 .

[Shifty Assassin]

Hey peter i was wondering if rogue daggers are still like main hand and off hand or is it you finding one pair. So basically could i still get 2 different daggers and weild them together in different hands or is it like

Example if i find "dagger a" and equip it it goes in main hand
Find and equip 'Dagger b" goes in off hand
Or
Find "dagger a" and equip it it goes in both hands

Im asking this because in pictures and demos the rogue has two identical daggers.

Also is specs the same as dao you unlock it once and it linked to your Gamer profile?

Thanks a lot if you answer and sorry if my first question confuses you

Modifié par Shifty Assassin, 05 mars 2011 - 09:39 .

[Shinimas]

The basis for combat is that a two-handed weapon should kill a critter rank hurlock in ~4.2 hits. That's how enemy health and weapon damage is related.


^Things must have changed a lot since the demo then. There it takes like 10 hits to kill a hurlock.

Modifié par Shinimas, 05 mars 2011 - 10:31 .

[LexXxich]

Peter, could you clarify this too?
Party buffs like Arcane Wall or Heroic Aura don't stack with themselves from different casters, right? But do debuffs like Hex of Torment stack on enemies if you cast them with two mages?

Also, a strategy guide
http://www.piggyback...php?id_guide=48
mentions Apostates, Circle mages and Dalish Elves as immune to Paralysis. Do we get any ingame indication of such immunities? Prior to trying the effect on enemies, preferably?

[Adhin]

@jomonoe: No worries man I was tired, I'd of argued with a squirrel about it in that state. That and Peter basically said that number of hits is with the idea of a certain amount of %dmg from sources, which in this case would include Might. So late game neither would matter to much for that.

As for Crit-Chance theres a general rule of thumb in these kinds of areas for classes that depend on Crit Chance. We'll say a pure DPS Warrior does but. Once you get to about 30% chance your generally better off seeking %dmg elsewhere. Though ultimately I'd say in your example a lot of that depends on your %hit chance at that point. Bravery, in a group 'will' max out your hit chance (10% per bonus) and at 100% hit chance, Might upgraded would be better. As you'll have about 30% crit chance in that group anyways due to bravery (and the other 2 sources) might as well up the base dmg and get the 25% Crit Dmg in place.

Basically if your Attack% chance to hit is 50-70%, I'd stick with Control, regardless if its groups of Bosses. If its 80-100% then I'd go with Might as you have the number of hits to make that %dmg do its job. Bosses I believe eat into your %chance to hit more regularly so Control would shine there more often. Where as for big groups a Bravery + Might combo will crush, due to Bravery maxing out %Attack with just a few mobs around you.

@Zher_Ryn: Yeah I think STR is still static and by Abilities he means actual talent use, like Mighty Blow. I was real tired and it occurred to me mid-sleep more or less, I kinda woke up a bit and was all 'Oh he meant talent stuff' then passed out again.

Anyways Control vs Might... basically yeah what I was trying to say. If your hit chance is low 50-70%, Control is going to be of huge benefit. If your that low vs mooks and your %Attack dives even more vs bosses...I dunno man, if that happens I think that character has way bigger problems then what sustained to use.

-edit-
Your right though, unless you have about 90% base Attack chance, Might does slightly less damage then just 10% Attack chance (and with 90% you do like 0.1% above with mights 10%). So with out any other consideration, Control is your best friend in most situations. If your in a group fight 'and' have Bravery on, which should ultimately max out your %chance even if your as low as 60%. Hell If you have 40% and your going up against 7 dudes, it'll max you out. So if you factor in Bravery then definitely add Might onto that mix for the 10% dmg and Crit dmg boosts, as the 10% Attack from control is basically being ignored.

@LexXxich: I think he's already, more or less, pointed that out in relation to other such debuffs. Basically there effects wont stack, it'll just use the highest value one. However both will still be counted 'on' them and when 1 wares off, the 2ndary (lower grade or otherwise) will be in effect. So in your example of Death Hex, putting both on at the same time, mostly pointless. Putting one on just before the other one fades will, ultimately, refresh its duration for all intents and purposes.

@Shifty Assassin: There still seperate, so you can equip 2 different daggers. Been a few SS of 2 completely different daggers equipped, lets you mix and match effects and such with your weapons. or at least, thats how it is in the Demo (thats been modded to open inventory) and every video I've seen of someone using a rogue.

Modifié par Adhin, 05 mars 2011 - 01:59 .

[Coldest]

I decided to go WnS instead of a 2-hander for my first Nightmare playthrough. But I have a question. It's still okay to go 42 str (best sword?) even on a WnS Warrior, right? I want to play tank but not to the point as to sacrifice too much strength that my Hawke won't be able to kill anything.

My party would be comprised of WnS Hawke, Isabela (melee DPS), Varric (ranged DPS) and Bethany(caster/healer).

[Adhin]

Instead of editing again my giant post there I do want to say 1 more thing as the Control Vs Might thing. The number's we're using (me and Zher) is all Nightmare based. That is, a glancing blow is only 1/10th of your damage. That's the real killer on misses. If you look at it from Normal difficulty things change drastically. Lemmy give you a basic example of 80% hit chance for Might vs Control in Nightmare, 100 dmg, 10 'attemptes'.

-Nightmare (1/10th)-
Base: 8 hits, 2 glances = 820 damage
Control: 9 hits, 1 glance = 910 damage
Might: 8 hits, 2 glances (10%) = 902 damage

So as you can see, if you have 80%, control still eeks out even at that, 90% its 1000 (control) vs 1001. Now lets look at say, Normal difficulty which I think is 1/2th glancing blow dmg, Think hard maybe 1/8th but I haven't gotten any confirmation on the exact values other then NM and Casual is 3/4ths. So take this next part for what it is, basic speculation based off knowing casual and NM values. I'll use an extreme miss chance this time of 40% just to show the major difference to NM.

-Normal (1/2, I think)-
Base: 4 hits, 6 glance = 700 damage
Control: 5 hits, 5 glances = 750 damage
Might: 4 hits, 6 glances = 770 damage

So as you can see even with an extreme miss chance, on lower difficulties your better off just using Might. That's entirely due to how glancing blows are handled. Kinda makes me think a lot of this stuff was designed with Hard/Nightmare in mind. Or that the glancing blow stuff trivializes a lot of the stuff due to lower difficulties.

[Adhin]

@Coldest: Yeah the 42 STR I was saying earlier was actually based off a top end 1-handed Sword. I'm assuming (which is bad, I know) that all weapons use the same requirements. Shields and Armor seem to so It kinda made sense to me. But basically yeah, 42 STR base is a good target for best 1handed weapons for a WnS Warrior.

-edit-
Well excepte Daggers, which I'm guessing would be about 42 Dex instead.

Modifié par Adhin, 05 mars 2011 - 02:17 .

[noisecode]

Hey guys....

I searched the forums and this thread and can't seem to find any idication as far as how many talent points we get through out the course of the game.... I'm assuming its 1 per level, but are thier other sources such as Tome's and in game events?  (I believe curing Arl Eamon in DA:O gave you a talent point)

Should I assume 20 talent points (even though the cap is 25) since i heard somewhere that we wont likely hit the level cap in Dragon Age 2 without any DLC?

I'm trying to make some descions about how my charecter is going to progress Talent wise.

[Adhin]

The cap isn't 25, the games max, max is 50. but you wont see that so... I guess you should consider 25 the highest you'd ever manage via a full play through, if your lucky.

As to tomes and the like we dunno, Bioware's been real quiet on that front sadly. My general recommendation is to build around 10-15 points, with only the upgrades you 'absolutely' need. Then when you do get to 20-25 you have some wiggle room for bonus upgrades. My current build, for instance is just 1-10. Rest I want for Specializations so I'm leaving that wide open.

That all said I am hoping there's some kinda bonus talents from some quest stuff (either main plot or major side quest stuff). I think it would be interesting, honestly, as all side quest stuff.

So yeah, no idea on bonus talent points, but assume a bit past 20 for pseudo-max lvl.

Modifié par Adhin, 05 mars 2011 - 02:31 .

[noisecode]

Adhin wrote...

The cap isn't 25, the games max, max is 50. but you wont see that so... I guess you should consider 25 the highest you'd ever manage via a full play through, if your lucky.

As to tomes and the like we dunno, Bioware's bee real quiet on that front sadly. My general recommendation is to build around 10-15 points, with only the upgrades you 'absolutely' need. Then when you do get to 20-25 you have some wiggle room for bonus upgrades. My current build, for instance is just 1-10. Rest I want for Specializations so I'm leaving that wide open.

That all said I am hoping there's some kinda bonus talents from some quest stuff (either main plot or major side quest stuff). I think it would be interesting, honestly, as all side quest stuff.

So yeah, no idea on bonus talent points, but assume a bit past 20 for pseudo-max lvl.

Yikes..... That is kind of sparse..... but doable. 

So with your plan for your charecter, did you invest in more than one web?  Or are you going with one web and specializations?

[noisecode]

m14567 wrote...

I think there'll probably be around 2-3 talent bonuses granted either via a quest rewards or through tomes acquired. I'd guess too that there will probably be a minimum of 3-4 attributes bonuses too.

In DA:O you could easily pick up 2-3 talent bonuses (joining, sacred ashes, landsmeet, tomes) and attributes you could get 15+ just from the fade/circle tower.

I think I'm gonna go SnB for my first playthrough on nightmare and build around just Anders and Varric as fixed squadmates, that always leaves the 4th squadmate free for the purposes of quests, etc.

I would have to agree with you.....Allowing for most charecter's to invest in every talent in two skill trees (including upgrades) does'nt really leave you any room for specializations, and supposedly we get two specialization points.

I believe fully investing in a skill tree costs about 10 points right?  So if you chose two trees to be your chosen skills you would'nt have enough points left over for a specialization.

Has to be bonus talents....at least 2 or 3.

My original plan for my Mage was to max out (over the course of the game) primal and spirit, then take a few talents (no upgrades) in force Mage.  

[Adhin]

Mostly in a single Web but branched out a bit, I've had a few versions of it but for what I'm going for (RP reasons/not wanting to die) I went with this current thing.

1: Pommel Strike - A
2: Stonewall - A
3: Taunt - A
4: Pommel Blow - P
5: Turn the Blade - S (or Elemental Aegist)
6: Bravery - S
7: Bulwark - P
8: Adamant - P (or Elemental Shroud)
9: Bravura - U
10: Bravado - U

So that's mostly in Warmonger with some in Defender. If we can get to lets say 22, and we get +2 more talents (or any other combination) its about 15 more talents to use. I plan to split that up between Berserker/Reaver. Ultimately though I try not to think of 'end game' as, end game means the boss is dead and its all over. It's not an online game, and I don't think it has NG+ so the idea of a maxed out char's almost silly to consider.

But there ya go. To get every reaver and berserker skill (not counting upgrades) It'll be 9 points (5 reaver, 4 berserker). Which leaves some wiggle room for upgrades, and that's if I even want all in each web to begin with. Turn the blade for the build is also useless, It's only there cause its needed for Adamant. If I find something comparible, or something more useful to that I'll be dropping them entirely. May swap them for the elemental aegis though if I find I really need it.

Either way that's kinda what I mean by planning to lvl 10. Getting the 'base' of what you need by 10 and allowing for growth should give you a good base to hit the game with. I find some times people think purely in end game and don't consider the actual progression, end up sucking till they hit 15+. 'How' you get to 20+ is ultimately more important to me, partly why I like the upgrades.

Some upgrades are nice but they can easily be taken in the later parts of the game as a quick buff to your style instead of required. Some are definitely something I want pre-10, obviously but I think they work out nicely for both things.

[Coldest]

Adhin wrote...

@Coldest: Yeah the 42 STR I was saying earlier was actually based off a top end 1-handed Sword. I'm assuming (which is bad, I know) that all weapons use the same requirements. Shields and Armor seem to so It kinda made sense to me. But basically yeah, 42 STR base is a good target for best 1handed weapons for a WnS Warrior.

-edit-
Well excepte Daggers, which I'm guessing would be about 42 Dex instead.

Thanks.

By the way, can anybody teach me how to reach level 20 on the demo? The thread I searched here in the forums didn't turn out to be very helpful at all.

[Adhin]

yeah M14567 I agree basically. I think going spirit your better off ignoring upgrades in Walking Bomb. using it just as a requirement for the last Passive (which requires 7, bleh). For Merrill I'm going just the lightning (not even passive) in Primal, and getting some stuff in Arcane.

Arcane is 'really' nice when you look at it actually, Elemental Weapons for party dmg boost. An upgraded Crushing Prison is freakin' awesome vs Staggered. 200% dmg and 100% chance to paralyze vs staggered, plus its just huge dmg. Also Barrier + Arcane Fortress is awesome, 6 seconds immunity will be a big help for Merrill as she can't heal anyone. So, making the tank immune for 6 seconds will buy some time a Heal otherwise would of provided, letting me extent another mages heal or a potion. Plus, of course, Mind Blast as an aggro dump, way useful for Merrill's survivability.

Also why im upgrading Pummel Strike, 100% stagger vs stunned. She'll be chain lightning normal mobs that I've staggered and, if I manage to stun/stagger the Elite+ mobs she'll use Upgraded Crushing Prison on them for the auto-paralyze + big dmg, or chain lightning if that's on cool down.