196 réponses à ce sujet

[bloodreaperfx]

How did this turned out to be a Witcher vs Dragon age thread? :-/ You're going to play both of them anyway, so really, who the fudge cares which one looks better?

[AllThatJazz]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

djarlaks10 wrote...

Also, come on, graphics do matter in some extent. For example, Game 1 and Game 2 both have great storylines, interesting characters and gameplay, but the Game 2's graphics are much better than it's competitor. So, I assume that most people will mostly likely buy the Game 2 because, while having the same great storyline. it also packs some nice graphics.
So, when so many good RPGs are coming out this year (because of this, the competition is quite high) I don't get why Bioware decided to have so retarded graphics and tell that it's some sort of special artstyle (I'm not following the DA2 info very attentively, but I do remember some interview where an employee said exactly that)

Exactly, the people here trying to say graphics don't matter at all are deluded full stop. One guy says he wouldn't mind if DA2 was 2D and had Atari graphics. Talk about self denial.

Er, maybe some people actually feel that way, even if you don't. It isn't that big a deal to not give a crap what things look like, is it? I'd call it a difference in priorities rather than denial.  

I'm talking about denial as in believing such a game would be well received and make lots of money in today's world. The denialists are those saying graphics don't matter. This might be the case for them, but it most certainly isn't the case overall.

Comparatively it might. Such a game would be dirt cheap to make, and there's a  small but definitely committed group of hardcore RPG'ers who would happily buy it, especially if such a game was advertised right (on places like the RPG Codex and such). The actual profit wouldn't be anywhere near as big, granted, but the ratio of profit to production cost? Could be awesome. And for a game which cost relative pennies to get out there.  It may be a niche market, but it's there. 

Bioware isn't a small indie developer. They are a top AAA studio and are expectated to make lots of profit for EA. You can't compare a Java browser game to this. Look at all the negativity DA: Legends has received from the community and you think a game even worse than this would do well? 

Are you telling me if you had the choice between an ATARI DA2 and the real DA2, you wouldn't care which one you played? Because thats what the person I quoted was saying.

Personally? No. I'm right with you. What I'm doing is defending his opinion and saying it's perfectly valid despite being different from yours. 

And Bio did DA: Journeys. Now they're doing Legends. These low key hex-based type games keep appearing on platforms such as smartphones and sites like Facebook. They might not be making millionaires of anyone, but clearly they have enough appeal to still be getting made. Even by AAA developers. Yes, it's also a marketing strategy to get people interested in their AAA titles, but so what? Might be laughable to you, but there's an audience somewhere for this stuff. And their preferences aren't invalid just because you (we) don't share them. 

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 18 février 2011 - 04:38 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Walker White wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

I'm talking about denial as in believing such a game would be well received and make lots of money in today's world. The denialists are those saying graphics don't matter. This might be the case for them, but it most certainly isn't the case overall.

This is not the issue.  The issue is whether the money spent making the graphics better in addition to all of the other technical features (e.g. dialogue, gameplay, etc.) justifies the return on investment.  The level of graphics that some of the people want on this thread are an extreme adjustment for an in-house engine like this.  To get that level of detail, most places will license an engine from someone else (Crysis, Source, Unreal), where the graphics development costs have been amortized over several games  Exhibit A: Mass Effect 2.  

But then there are the engineering challenges of adapting that engine to your game.  DA is not a shooter, so the engine would require significant changes.  And sometimes that is as expensive as building it yourself.

DA:O had horrible graphics and sold nearly 4 million copies.  How much more do we think better graphics would have made this figure?  And is the revenue from that enough to justify the cost?  That is the only question that matters.

Based on anecdotal evidence, I do think that the graphics issue is a generation gap issue.  My generation (which is a lot older than most people on this board) have contempt for games that stress eye candy over gameplay.

I'm with you there, graphics should never take priority over gameplay. However I'm sick and tired of listening to people that bash advances in graphics, physics, 3d etc and call them unimportant and useless. Games wouldn't be anywhere near as fun, engaging and complex as they are today if it wasn't for tech advances. DA2 in its current form would be an impossible game to create.

[AlexXIV]

The reason for their graphics is that Bioware makes the game for multiple platforms. I mean if you look at other RPGs, do they feature a party like DA? No you are mostly alone and even if you take someone with you it's rarely useful because the AI sucks. You can't have everything in a game and still have it all be on par with every other game out there and then on top of that have it run on every platform that exists.

Bioware know exactly why they make things the way they do. They know what they want in their game and they know what is possible. And then they make decisions what can be done. If people are unhappy with Bioware graphics they should slowsly start to realize that it's how it is in Bioware games. They have focus on other things and use the best graphic possible without lowering the general performance on all platforms.

[SultryVulcan]

Walker White wrote...

SultryVulcan wrote...

401 ratings vs 1047 ratings, apparently a lot more people disliked DA than TW.

I don't want to get in the DA vs. Witcher argument, but these types of arguments make me cringe.  Don't let your statistics teacher see that.

Sorry if my sarcasm wasn't blindingly obvious.

Modifié par SultryVulcan, 18 février 2011 - 05:13 .

[Wynne]

Dubya75 wrote...

You judge prematurely. Read this.

The Witcher 2 is one of the best-looking games out there. Still, this looks quite nice, actually. Markedly better than un-modded DAO. The details are far superior. Same with this shot.

Saying DA2 looks ugly because it doesn't look like TW2 is like saying that Jayma Mays is ugly because she doesn't look like Adriana Lima.

[nelly21]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

I'm with you there, graphics should never take priority over gameplay. However I'm sick and tired of listening to people that bash advances in graphics, physics, 3d etc and call them unimportant and useless.

Nobody is bashing advances in tech. But when a random fool throws a single picture on the forum and says that graphics are the reason he/she/it won't be purchasing the game, don't act surprised when people react by saying that graphics aren't the only thing that matters.

Games wouldn't be anywhere near as fun, engaging and complex as they are today if it wasn't for tech advances. DA2 in its current form would be an impossible game to create.

I still play Bubble Bobble nearly every day. I can't say the same for a lot of current gen games.

[Skilled Seeker]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

djarlaks10 wrote...

Also, come on, graphics do matter in some extent. For example, Game 1 and Game 2 both have great storylines, interesting characters and gameplay, but the Game 2's graphics are much better than it's competitor. So, I assume that most people will mostly likely buy the Game 2 because, while having the same great storyline. it also packs some nice graphics.
So, when so many good RPGs are coming out this year (because of this, the competition is quite high) I don't get why Bioware decided to have so retarded graphics and tell that it's some sort of special artstyle (I'm not following the DA2 info very attentively, but I do remember some interview where an employee said exactly that)

Exactly, the people here trying to say graphics don't matter at all are deluded full stop. One guy says he wouldn't mind if DA2 was 2D and had Atari graphics. Talk about self denial.

Er, maybe some people actually feel that way, even if you don't. It isn't that big a deal to not give a crap what things look like, is it? I'd call it a difference in priorities rather than denial.  

I'm talking about denial as in believing such a game would be well received and make lots of money in today's world. The denialists are those saying graphics don't matter. This might be the case for them, but it most certainly isn't the case overall.

Comparatively it might. Such a game would be dirt cheap to make, and there's a  small but definitely committed group of hardcore RPG'ers who would happily buy it, especially if such a game was advertised right (on places like the RPG Codex and such). The actual profit wouldn't be anywhere near as big, granted, but the ratio of profit to production cost? Could be awesome. And for a game which cost relative pennies to get out there.  It may be a niche market, but it's there. 

Bioware isn't a small indie developer. They are a top AAA studio and are expectated to make lots of profit for EA. You can't compare a Java browser game to this. Look at all the negativity DA: Legends has received from the community and you think a game even worse than this would do well? 

Are you telling me if you had the choice between an ATARI DA2 and the real DA2, you wouldn't care which one you played? Because thats what the person I quoted was saying.

Personally? No. I'm right with you. What I'm doing is defending his opinion and saying it's perfectly valid despite being different from yours. 

And Bio did DA: Journeys. Now they're doing Legends. These low key hex-based type games keep appearing on platforms such as smartphones and sites like Facebook. They might not be making millionaires of anyone, but clearly they have enough appeal to still be getting made. Even by AAA developers. Yes, it's also a marketing strategy to get people interested in their AAA titles, but so what? Might be laughable to you, but there's an audience somewhere for this stuff. And their preferences aren't invalid just because you (we) don't share them. 

BIoware didn't make Journeys or Legends, EA 2D did. And Journeys was a flop since the full game was never released so obviously there wasn't a viable market for it.

[deuce985]

Someone please show me when Bioware has been known for making amazing graphics? No offense Bioware but never. Guess what though, that is ok because everything else about their games are awesome. It is obvious graphics are usually put as a low priority. Heck, ME2 doesn't even have AA options on PC. I actually have to force it into the game. That is like a basic PC component for graphics in games too. At least higher end cards that can handle it. Don't really care personally. I thought DA:O looked fine on PC maxed out.

[Skilled Seeker]

AlexXIV wrote...

The reason for their graphics is that Bioware makes the game for multiple platforms. I mean if you look at other RPGs, do they feature a party like DA? No you are mostly alone and even if you take someone with you it's rarely useful because the AI sucks. You can't have everything in a game and still have it all be on par with every other game out there and then on top of that have it run on every platform that exists.

Bioware know exactly why they make things the way they do. They know what they want in their game and they know what is possible. And then they make decisions what can be done. If people are unhappy with Bioware graphics they should slowsly start to realize that it's how it is in Bioware games. They have focus on other things and use the best graphic possible without lowering the general performance on all platforms.

Graphics have little to do with whether a game is multiplat or not. Most of the games with the best graphics are multiplat such as Crysis 2, Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil 5 etc.

[Rivehn]

For medium settings thats not that bad you know.

[Skilled Seeker]

nelly21 wrote...
I still play Bubble Bobble nearly every day. I can't say the same for a lot of current gen games.

And do you find it more enjoyable than current gen games? 

[AlexXIV]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The reason for their graphics is that Bioware makes the game for multiple platforms. I mean if you look at other RPGs, do they feature a party like DA? No you are mostly alone and even if you take someone with you it's rarely useful because the AI sucks. You can't have everything in a game and still have it all be on par with every other game out there and then on top of that have it run on every platform that exists.

Bioware know exactly why they make things the way they do. They know what they want in their game and they know what is possible. And then they make decisions what can be done. If people are unhappy with Bioware graphics they should slowsly start to realize that it's how it is in Bioware games. They have focus on other things and use the best graphic possible without lowering the general performance on all platforms.

Graphics have little to do with whether a game is multiplat or not. Most of the games with the best graphics are multiplat such as Crysis 2, Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil 5 etc.

Is any of them a roleplaying game or in other ways like Dragon Age? If you compare apples to peaches you may find that apples look better, but at the same time you may find peaches taste better.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 18 février 2011 - 04:58 .

[deuce985]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The reason for their graphics is that Bioware makes the game for multiple platforms. I mean if you look at other RPGs, do they feature a party like DA? No you are mostly alone and even if you take someone with you it's rarely useful because the AI sucks. You can't have everything in a game and still have it all be on par with every other game out there and then on top of that have it run on every platform that exists.

Bioware know exactly why they make things the way they do. They know what they want in their game and they know what is possible. And then they make decisions what can be done. If people are unhappy with Bioware graphics they should slowsly start to realize that it's how it is in Bioware games. They have focus on other things and use the best graphic possible without lowering the general performance on all platforms.

Graphics have little to do with whether a game is multiplat or not. Most of the games with the best graphics are multiplat such as Crysis 2, Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil 5 etc.

False. Multiplatform games don't utilize PC architecture to its fullest, therefore, they're almost always low resource hogs. I can't think of many, if any, MP games take up heavy resources on PC. Compare exclusives. Crysis still destroys rigs today on high settings, Witcher 2. Heck, look at Shogun 2:Total War, it is recommending second generation Intel technology with at least a i5, minimum. I haven't seen a game recommend something like that yet...and it looks gorgeous.

Simply put, multiplatform games have to ultilize all platform architecture together. So, they come to a middle ground. Exclusives obviously will always look better because they're utlilizing only one architecture to its fullest. Take a look at PS3 exclusives like Uncharted 2. Do you see anything remotely close to that as a multiplatform game?

[Skilled Seeker]

AlexXIV wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The reason for their graphics is that Bioware makes the game for multiple platforms. I mean if you look at other RPGs, do they feature a party like DA? No you are mostly alone and even if you take someone with you it's rarely useful because the AI sucks. You can't have everything in a game and still have it all be on par with every other game out there and then on top of that have it run on every platform that exists.

Bioware know exactly why they make things the way they do. They know what they want in their game and they know what is possible. And then they make decisions what can be done. If people are unhappy with Bioware graphics they should slowsly start to realize that it's how it is in Bioware games. They have focus on other things and use the best graphic possible without lowering the general performance on all platforms.

Graphics have little to do with whether a game is multiplat or not. Most of the games with the best graphics are multiplat such as Crysis 2, Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil 5 etc.

Is any of them a roleplaying game or in other ways like Dragon Age? If you compare apples to peaches you may find that apples look better, but at the same time you may find peaches taste better.

I don't see what relation game genre has to do with multiplat games' graphics. Skyrim and Mass Effect are multiplat RPGs and have industry leading graphics.

[Skilled Seeker]

deuce985 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The reason for their graphics is that Bioware makes the game for multiple platforms. I mean if you look at other RPGs, do they feature a party like DA? No you are mostly alone and even if you take someone with you it's rarely useful because the AI sucks. You can't have everything in a game and still have it all be on par with every other game out there and then on top of that have it run on every platform that exists.

Bioware know exactly why they make things the way they do. They know what they want in their game and they know what is possible. And then they make decisions what can be done. If people are unhappy with Bioware graphics they should slowsly start to realize that it's how it is in Bioware games. They have focus on other things and use the best graphic possible without lowering the general performance on all platforms.

Graphics have little to do with whether a game is multiplat or not. Most of the games with the best graphics are multiplat such as Crysis 2, Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil 5 etc.

False. Multiplatform games don't utilize PC architecture to its fullest, therefore, they're almost always low resource hogs. I can't think of many, if any, MP games take up heavy resources on PC. Compare exclusives. Crysis still destroys rigs today on high settings, Witcher 2. Heck, look at Shogun 2:Total War, it is recommending second generation Intel technology with at least a i5, minimum. I haven't seen a game recommend something like that yet...and it looks gorgeous.

Simply put, multiplatform games have to ultilize all platform architecture together. So, they come to a middle ground. Exclusives obviously will always look better because they're utlilizing only one architecture to its fullest. Take a look at PS3 exclusives like Uncharted 2. Do you see anything remotely close to that as a multiplatform game?

I know the very best graphics will be for PC exclusive games. My point is most of the games with above average graphics are multiplat, many multiplat games have better graphics than exclusives. Multiplat in no way hinders the graphics of a game, its all down to optimization and quality ports.

[JigPig]

Eshme wrote...

JigPig wrote...

who'd you believe now lol

AHAHAHAHA.

He puts more faith into USER ratings, rather than reviewers who's job it is to review.

BWAHAHAHAHA

[AllThatJazz]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

djarlaks10 wrote...

Also, come on, graphics do matter in some extent. For example, Game 1 and Game 2 both have great storylines, interesting characters and gameplay, but the Game 2's graphics are much better than it's competitor. So, I assume that most people will mostly likely buy the Game 2 because, while having the same great storyline. it also packs some nice graphics.
So, when so many good RPGs are coming out this year (because of this, the competition is quite high) I don't get why Bioware decided to have so retarded graphics and tell that it's some sort of special artstyle (I'm not following the DA2 info very attentively, but I do remember some interview where an employee said exactly that)

Exactly, the people here trying to say graphics don't matter at all are deluded full stop. One guy says he wouldn't mind if DA2 was 2D and had Atari graphics. Talk about self denial.

Er, maybe some people actually feel that way, even if you don't. It isn't that big a deal to not give a crap what things look like, is it? I'd call it a difference in priorities rather than denial.  

I'm talking about denial as in believing such a game would be well received and make lots of money in today's world. The denialists are those saying graphics don't matter. This might be the case for them, but it most certainly isn't the case overall.

Comparatively it might. Such a game would be dirt cheap to make, and there's a  small but definitely committed group of hardcore RPG'ers who would happily buy it, especially if such a game was advertised right (on places like the RPG Codex and such). The actual profit wouldn't be anywhere near as big, granted, but the ratio of profit to production cost? Could be awesome. And for a game which cost relative pennies to get out there.  It may be a niche market, but it's there. 

Bioware isn't a small indie developer. They are a top AAA studio and are expectated to make lots of profit for EA. You can't compare a Java browser game to this. Look at all the negativity DA: Legends has received from the community and you think a game even worse than this would do well? 

Are you telling me if you had the choice between an ATARI DA2 and the real DA2, you wouldn't care which one you played? Because thats what the person I quoted was saying.

Personally? No. I'm right with you. What I'm doing is defending his opinion and saying it's perfectly valid despite being different from yours. 

And Bio did DA: Journeys. Now they're doing Legends. These low key hex-based type games keep appearing on platforms such as smartphones and sites like Facebook. They might not be making millionaires of anyone, but clearly they have enough appeal to still be getting made. Even by AAA developers. Yes, it's also a marketing strategy to get people interested in their AAA titles, but so what? Might be laughable to you, but there's an audience somewhere for this stuff. And their preferences aren't invalid just because you (we) don't share them. 

BIoware didn't make Journeys or Legends, EA 2D did. And Journeys was a flop since the full game was never released so obviously there wasn't a viable market for it.

Gaaaahhhhhh, I don't care who made it. I don't care that it was a 'flop', by today's standards.  These types of games are still being made. Reasonably regularly, too, given the industry's preoccupation with 'what's the prettiest game?'. And by numerous different developers. So there are clearly people out there for whom graphics are not important, and there are developers willing to cater to their tastes. The guy who said he'd buy DA2 if it had Atari graphics or whatever wasn't actually seriously suggesting that Bio should shelve their games and do Dragon Age: PacMan, and it would still sell a gazillion copies, was he? He was just stating a valid personal preference.  

I bought Fallouts 1 & 2 after playing and enjoying F3. I now consider the first two games to be vastly superior to the third, despite the graphics. Would it be cool if the first 2 games were remade with spiffier visuals? Sure, I guess. Do I care that they actually look a bit ****? Nope.

[Noviere]

bloodreaperfx wrote...

How did this turned out to be a Witcher vs Dragon age thread? :-/

Because every time graphics are discussed, someone inevitably posts a page full of Witcher 2 screen shots.

[VanDraegon]

If you buyinga game for its graphics, the Dragon Age games are not for you. If however you are buying games for a superior and compelling story then they are you games.

[AlexXIV]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The reason for their graphics is that Bioware makes the game for multiple platforms. I mean if you look at other RPGs, do they feature a party like DA? No you are mostly alone and even if you take someone with you it's rarely useful because the AI sucks. You can't have everything in a game and still have it all be on par with every other game out there and then on top of that have it run on every platform that exists.

Bioware know exactly why they make things the way they do. They know what they want in their game and they know what is possible. And then they make decisions what can be done. If people are unhappy with Bioware graphics they should slowsly start to realize that it's how it is in Bioware games. They have focus on other things and use the best graphic possible without lowering the general performance on all platforms.

Graphics have little to do with whether a game is multiplat or not. Most of the games with the best graphics are multiplat such as Crysis 2, Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil 5 etc.

Is any of them a roleplaying game or in other ways like Dragon Age? If you compare apples to peaches you may find that apples look better, but at the same time you may find peaches taste better.

I don't see what relation game genre has to do with multiplat games' graphics. Skyrim and Mass Effect are multiplat RPGs and have industry leading graphics.

Because different games use different processes. I remember a dev saying that they can't make better graphics because of other features which would suffer or simply could not be there if the focused on better graphics. I can't explain it in detail since I am not a dev. If I was there when they developed the game and seens the problems or ressources better graphics entail I could tell you more. And ME is a proof that Bioware can make top notch graphics. Which leads me to believe they are the way they are in DA;O and DA2 for a good reason ...

[Chris Priestly]

And done.


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