169 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I very much hope that these icons are well documented so there will be no ambiguity at all as to what they mean.

They'll probably list them in the manual. Some seem self-explanatory however, and even if there is no guide, I imagine it won't exactly be that difficult to figure out things like the mystery diamond (if that's something they're actually using in the finished build) after a few conversations.

[DarthCaine]

Mr.House wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

If the sarcasm isn't funny, it means the joke failed.

Sarcasm means:

1: witty language used to convey insults or scorn

2: Sarcasm is the rhetorical device of using a characterization of
something or someone in order to express contempt. It is closely
connected with irony, in that the two are often combined in the same
statement.

3: A form of humor that is marked by mocking with irony, sometimes conveyed in speech with vocal over-emphasis.

It can mean three things, it does not always need to be funny. Just because you think it's not funny does not mean Bioware failed. It only failed for you because you only think it means one thing.


Plus you have not even played the whole game so you don't know how the other dialog is going  to be like.

All of those 3 definitions mean sarcasm is supposed to be funny

[Haasth]

DarthCaine wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

If the sarcasm isn't funny, it means the joke failed.

Sarcasm means:

1: witty language used to convey insults or scorn

2: Sarcasm is the rhetorical device of using a characterization of
something or someone in order to express contempt. It is closely
connected with irony, in that the two are often combined in the same
statement.

3: A form of humor that is marked by mocking with irony, sometimes conveyed in speech with vocal over-emphasis.

It can mean three things, it does not always need to be funny. Just because you think it's not funny does not mean Bioware failed. It only failed for you because you only think it means one thing.


Plus you have not even played the whole game so you don't know how the other dialog is going  to be like.

All of those 3 definitions mean sarcasm is supposed to be funny

You have to keep in mind however: Humor is subjective. 
This is key to humor. You may not find it funny, while others might find it hilarious. 

Sarcasm is merely a mocking attempt with an underlying sense of comedy. Whether or not this is actually funny depends on your/their opinion. 

Modifié par Haasth, 18 février 2011 - 09:42 .

[PsychoBlonde]

MarchWaltz wrote...

Maybe the purple diamond thing when bro hawke or sis hawke dies is a stoic option

Yeah, my suggestion would be either "stoic" or "neutral"

[AtreiyaN7]

Can't we just go back to those halcyon days when people didn't argue over the definition of sarcasm and were instead obsessing over the deeper meaning behind shiny purple diamonds?

[Alan Rickman]

TheInvicibleCandyBar wrote...

JobacNoor wrote...

Bobad wrote...

This response is diamonds?.

Look at your sister's corpse.
Now back to me.
Now back at her corpse.
Now back to me.

Sadly, your sister isn't alive like I am. But if she used Old Spice scented body wash she could smell like me.

Look down.
Back up.
Her corpse is now diamonds. I'm on a nug.

You, sir and/or madam, are amazing.

Sir, thankyouverymuch.

Except when I went through that brief phase back in high school. I was young and curious.

[SkyWard20]

DarthCaine wrote...



In the scene where your sibling dies there's 3 choices:

1. *olive branch* He/She died bravely. (Hawke says something like "He/She gave his/her life to save us")
2. *diamond* There's no time to mourn. (usually there's a sarcastic option here)
3. *gavel* Pull yourself together! (Hawke says: "If you fall apart now, you endanger us all")

Same goes for the next dialog:
1. *olive branch* That's the best we can give.
2. *diamond* She won't be alone.
3. *gavel* We've wasted enough time. (Hawke says: "Leave her, the darkspawn are gaining by the minute")

Now in the first option Hawke acts as if some random NPC died and you're comforting their family (who seem like they have no relation to you).
In the third you act like an emotionless ******.
None of those seem fitting for a scene where your sibling (who you've spend most of your life with) dies (crappy writing).
I'm interested in what the diamond icon means and what on earth can we expect.

(btw, I still frakin hate the stupid paraphrasing since I've no idea what Hawke will say)

yeah, really crappy writing, hawke should just lie down and cry and turn the game into a soap opra. maybe the darkspawn filling that area would spare them -- hawke obviously has a lot of time to mourn the loss of his sister/brother and there certainly aren't any lives that rest in his hands. this is what you want, yes?

Maybe you should be the one writing the story. One rock on its own does nothing, but knock them together and you're bound to create a spark is what they say, no?

Modifié par SkyWard20, 18 février 2011 - 09:53 .

[ReallyRue]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Can't we just go back to those halcyon days when people didn't argue over the definition of sarcasm and were instead obsessing over the deeper meaning behind shiny purple diamonds?

Yeah, back in my day, people had more important priorities, like whether or not Hawke is actually Morrigan's dad/mum. Those were the days

[RosaAquafire]

Teknor wrote...

Mourning settles in after battle rush. Survival first. You guys are bunch of softies.

The issue is that if I wanted to play a Hawke who IS a huge softie, because this is a roleplaying game where we get to define the personality of our character, my only options are "noble stoic" "stoic" and "douchey stoic." Can't I at least have an option to flip out and force carver/bethany/leandra to slap some sense into me?

I got to do that in the Human Noble opening.

[Sylvius the Mad]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

They'll probably list them in the manual. Some seem self-explanatory however, and even if there is no guide, I imagine it won't exactly be that difficult to figure out things like the mystery diamond

Having to figure it out even one means it failed as a mechanic.

[Russalka]

There will always be people who do not understand the icons. If there is a manual or an explanation, it is still better than having [DIPLOMATIC] or [FLIRTATIOUS] next to the options. And people might not understand even then.

[AtreiyaN7]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

They'll probably list them in the manual. Some seem self-explanatory however, and even if there is no guide, I imagine it won't exactly be that difficult to figure out things like the mystery diamond

Having to figure it out even one means it failed as a mechanic.

Well, it does only if you're looking to nitpick it to death. If it's easy to figure out, then I don't see a problem as long as the responses are predictable and in keeping with the intent of the icon once learned. Either it will be in the manual, or they think it's intuitive enough for people to pick it up. This diamond thing might not even be in the demo, but if it is, then we can all click on it and find out what it is together.

[Haasth]

Russalka wrote...

There will always be people who do not understand the icons. If there is a manual or an explanation, it is still better than having [DIPLOMATIC] or [FLIRTATIOUS] next to the options. And people might not understand even then.

But that's because, generally, people are IDIOTS. 

[Wrathra]

SkyWard20 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...



In the scene where your sibling dies there's 3 choices:

1. *olive branch* He/She died bravely. (Hawke says something like "He/She gave his/her life to save us")
2. *diamond* There's no time to mourn. (usually there's a sarcastic option here)
3. *gavel* Pull yourself together! (Hawke says: "If you fall apart now, you endanger us all")

Same goes for the next dialog:
1. *olive branch* That's the best we can give.
2. *diamond* She won't be alone.
3. *gavel* We've wasted enough time. (Hawke says: "Leave her, the darkspawn are gaining by the minute")

Now in the first option Hawke acts as if some random NPC died and you're comforting their family (who seem like they have no relation to you).
In the third you act like an emotionless ******.
None of those seem fitting for a scene where your sibling (who you've spend most of your life with) dies (crappy writing).
I'm interested in what the diamond icon means and what on earth can we expect.

(btw, I still frakin hate the stupid paraphrasing since I've no idea what Hawke will say)

yeah, really crappy writing, hawke should just lie down and cry and turn the game into a soap opra. maybe the darkspawn filling that area would spare them -- hawke obviously has a lot of time to mourn the loss of his sister/brother and there certainly aren't any lives that rest in his hands. this is what you want, yes?

Maybe you should be the one writing the story. One rock on its own does nothing, but knock them together and you're bound to create a spark is what they say, no?

You can comfort your mother/react to seeing your sister/brother crushed into paste without becoming a crying useless ball - they want us to feel something for our family.   I thought that was one of the reasons we have one in this game and that they have a singe protagonist or whatever.

I know we're all supposed to be all macho kick **** breathing fire types, but nothing wrong with having feelings... 

This is why I hate the dialogue wheel, too.

Modifié par Wrathra, 18 février 2011 - 10:01 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

They'll probably list them in the manual. Some seem self-explanatory however, and even if there is no guide, I imagine it won't exactly be that difficult to figure out things like the mystery diamond

Having to figure it out even one means it failed as a mechanic.

I miss the old games where they made you figure out *almost everything* yourself.  Figuring out stuff is part of the fun of playing the game.

[PsychoBlonde]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Can't I at least have an option to flip out and force carver/bethany/leandra to slap some sense into me?

Yeah, but it results in Carver becoming Champion of Kirkwall while you're busy whimpering in the corner, so they decided to leave it out.

[SkyWard20]

Wrathra wrote...

SkyWard20 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...



In the scene where your sibling dies there's 3 choices:

1. *olive branch* He/She died bravely. (Hawke says something like "He/She gave his/her life to save us")
2. *diamond* There's no time to mourn. (usually there's a sarcastic option here)
3. *gavel* Pull yourself together! (Hawke says: "If you fall apart now, you endanger us all")

Same goes for the next dialog:
1. *olive branch* That's the best we can give.
2. *diamond* She won't be alone.
3. *gavel* We've wasted enough time. (Hawke says: "Leave her, the darkspawn are gaining by the minute")

Now in the first option Hawke acts as if some random NPC died and you're comforting their family (who seem like they have no relation to you).
In the third you act like an emotionless ******.
None of those seem fitting for a scene where your sibling (who you've spend most of your life with) dies (crappy writing).
I'm interested in what the diamond icon means and what on earth can we expect.

(btw, I still frakin hate the stupid paraphrasing since I've no idea what Hawke will say)

yeah, really crappy writing, hawke should just lie down and cry and turn the game into a soap opra. maybe the darkspawn filling that area would spare them -- hawke obviously has a lot of time to mourn the loss of his sister/brother and there certainly aren't any lives that rest in his hands. this is what you want, yes?

Maybe you should be the one writing the story. One rock on its own does nothing, but knock them together and you're bound to create a spark is what they say, no?

You can comfort your mother/react to seeing your sister/brother crushed into paste without becoming a crying useless ball - they want us to feel something for our family.   I thought that was one of the reasons we have one in this game and that they have a singe protagonist or whatever.

I know we're all supposed to be all macho kick **** breathing fire types, but nothing wrong with having feelings... 

This is why I hate the dialogue wheel, too.

I didn't say that. I believe the event can be emotional enough, but I don't find it appropriate to turn Hawke into drama queen when he's trying to save his family. there is absolutely nothing wrong with showing emotion, which I think your character can and does. 

[Eternal Dust]

DarthCaine wrote...
Same goes for the next dialog:
1. *olive branch* That's the best we can give.
2. *diamond* She won't be alone.
3. *gavel* We've wasted enough time. (Hawke says: "Leave her, the darkspawn are gaining by the minute")

Maybe the diamond is a looting option.

"She won't be alone." *swipes her staff*

[Taleroth]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Can't I at least have an option to flip out and force carver/bethany/leandra to slap some sense into me?

Yeah, but it results in Carver becoming Champion of Kirkwall while you're busy whimpering in the corner, so they decided to leave it out.

I don't think it would have happened that way.  It would have been Varric to become the Champion.

[ReallyRue]

Taleroth wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Can't I at least have an option to flip out and force carver/bethany/leandra to slap some sense into me?

Yeah, but it results in Carver becoming Champion of Kirkwall while you're busy whimpering in the corner, so they decided to leave it out.

I don't think it would have happened that way.  It would have been Varric to become the Champion.

No, Mama Hawke becomes the champion. Cassandra did say she was looking for 'Hawke', after all.

[RosaAquafire]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Yeah, but it results in Carver becoming Champion of Kirkwall while you're busy whimpering in the corner, so they decided to leave it out.

I love the idea that only someone with balls of iron and a heart of granite and a beard of steel wool is capable of rising to power. You're right, someone who had a breaking point when their sibling is crushed by an ogre could never lead men, and someone who has the presence of mind to bring them back to themselves with a sharp word is automatically kingly.

Please. This dumb machismo is exactly why we only have varying options of stoic badass to choose from here.

[Trixsy]

Foxkit182 wrote...

In the first game, your party members had dialogue options that "hardened" them to the cruelty of the world or their situations. Based off the emotion implied behind the phrases above, it looks like the diamonds are hard/cold choices that would lead to a hardened personality in Hawke, one that's more focused on the situation at hand and survival--and since diamonds are the hardest stone.....maybe?

I like that idea, and the way youi describe it makes sense. Now I'll have a hard time shaking that impression if the diamonds mean something else XD
/shakes a fist at you!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Russalka wrote...

There will always be people who do not understand the icons. If there is a manual or an explanation, it is still better than having [DIPLOMATIC] or [FLIRTATIOUS] next to the options. And people might not understand even then.

Single words probably won't be adequate explanations.  "Diplomatic" requires more information about what diplomacy entails.

The DAO system could never surprise the player, since he always knew what the content of the option he'd chosen was.  If DA2's wheel+paraphrase ever does surprise the player, then it is the lesser system.

[Collider]

@Rosa: I'd love for Hawke to be able to express insecurity, regret, etc. Stoic player character gets boring after a while.

[Smorj]

Well as I have a brother and a sister, who I love dearly, I find it really hard to relate to Hawke being so distant in his emotions when one of his dies. But I get the "mourn later, survive now", sure.