22 réponses à ce sujet

[USArmyParatrooper]

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[Amazon Queen]

I like Ranger. 1 talent gets you a pretty effective addition to your party and you can leave getting further Ranger talents until you've got your priorities like Song of Courage, Lethality, and the top row archer talents. Duellist really requires 3 or 4 talents to be worthwhile. I'd only bother with it if going for a hybrid DW/archer build.

[Mr_Steph]

Duelist would give you +10 attack with the first one which is pretty handy for an archer and on the 3'rd one, better defense. But hopefully you wouldn't get attacked to much from melee and with stealh+dirty fighting you should be able to stop them anyway.



Ranger will of course add another melee unit to your party to help keep enemies away from you which is a good thing.



Assasin...only mark of death can be of any use.



Choose what you want.

[termokanden]

I'd say Ranger is the winner unless you're really having trouble hitting things. Then the attack bonus from Duelist might be nice.



I wouldn't dream of picking Assassin for an archer.

[swk3000]

Assassin is designed specifically for a Melee rogue, so it's useless to a ranged character. Mark of Death could be useful, but it's a melee-range talent, so you'd have to get close to use it, which puts you right where you don't want to be: in the middle of the battle.



Personally, I'm not a fan of the Ranger spec. I'd much rather improve my PC rather than rely on a summon. It's a personal taste. I'd probably go with the Duelist spec, and only spend the first point. None of the other abilities are of any use to an Archer, in my opinion, but an extra 10 Attack is always nice.



As a note about the Ranger, it's actually a solid idea for an Archer. The animals summoned by it are all Melee fighters, so if the rest of the party goes down, you'll still have the pet that you can use to keep enemy attention off of you. From a tactical standpoint, it makes plenty of sense. So just because I don't like it doesn't mean it's a bad choice.

[termokanden]

Slightly revised opinion after reading the previous post: I agree that people underestimate Ranger because it doesn't boost your character but merely provides a pet. It's still extra damage, and the pet can be sacrificed at any point and just summoned again with no penalties at all.

Dex build: Ranger, Bard. Assassin provides too little benefit for archers, and Duelist boosts defense and attack, and these are already sky-high with a dex build.

Cunning build: Bard, Duelist. Bard is obvious here, cunning builds don't work too well without it. Duelist helps you deal with the low attack rating you'll have with a cunning build.

For Awakening, I'd go for a full dex build. I'd get Legion (because it's insanely good for all rogues), Ranger and Bard (this one is just filler but again better than Duelist when your attack/defense are already very high).

Modifié par termokanden, 19 février 2011 - 01:19 .

[USArmyParatrooper]

Thanks, guys. It's actually for Leliana. I think I'll go with Duelist. The Ranger idea is a good one, but I like having a good archer because it alleviates the clutter of too many melee fighters. +10 Attack along with whatever Song of Courage gives will be some nice buffs.



Now I just have to choose whether to stack Dex or Cun, as both have merit. I'm leaning toward an even mix between both.

[Last Darkness]

termokanden wrote...

I'd say Ranger is the winner unless you're really having trouble hitting things. Then the attack bonus from Duelist might be nice.

I wouldn't dream of picking Assassin for an archer.

Bard/Duelest is generaly a good idea for Cunning builds due to the stackable +attack bonuses.  Though it would give the best advantage to a melee character.

Ranger....im a biased fan of, keep in mind that you cant just factor in it as only a extra unit. Keep in mind it has abilities that you can take heavy advantage of. Namely stuns, so think of it as extra abilities. Most people ignore this spec cause it dosnt have visable effects on their character. Belive me it does some great complimenting to you abilities.  Ranger/Assassin/Shadow is my current favorite Rogue build and the damage it allows is....impressive.(Even just Ranger/Assassin in Origins)

OP since you stated this for Leliana, I must tell you that she makes a better Bard/Assassin or Bard/Duelest then she does a Archer as shes presented in the game. Avoid making anyone a Archer generaly unless your specificaly building for that for your whole party (See link in my Sig)

-Side Note-
Most people use the wolf, hes mostly just a auto attack damage dealer since he attacks fast.
Bear can take a beating and has Slam which is a knockdown, Rage adds+10 Str
Spider has a 4-8 second paralyse, which links with "coup de grace" nicely.

The 3 Rogue Rangers with Spiders and Morrigan in Spider Form party is awesome. You can do this with bears too or wolves and switch morrigan for dog.

[ussnorway]

Last Darkness wrote...
Spider has a 4-8 second paralyse, which links with "coup de grace" nicely.

The 3 Rogue Rangers with Spiders and Morrigan in Spider Form party is awesome. You can do this with bears too or wolves and switch morrigan for dog.

The Spider works well with the 'Earthquake' spell... cast it on an area and watch your spider run around with impunity.

Modifié par ussnorway, 19 février 2011 - 01:03 .

[SuicidalBaby]

All of dualist abilities benifit an archer.



btw, anyone that can tell me the default trigger for overwelm on the wolf & spider gets a cookie.



also, arnt pets and controls limited to only 1 per party on consoles?

[Last Darkness]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

All of dualist abilities benifit an archer.

btw, anyone that can tell me the default trigger for overwelm on the wolf & spider gets a cookie.

also, arnt pets and controls limited to only 1 per party on consoles?

No overwhelm for pets, and yes on consoles you only get 1 pet which is why I baught the ultimate edition for $30 when the EA store had a sale. 

The problem still remains, Archer do joke damage compared to every other class unless you build out-of-your-way heavily on it. Namely the easy to get 100% crit rate builds.

Though not all the abilities benefit....  Dueling is +10 attack and defense to yourself, this is the same bonus as Rally(which stacks with it btw) but that affects the whole party.  Upset Balance isnt so great since its melee only, but -20 Defense = + 20 Attack basicaly. Pinpoint Strike is nice but useless if your running a easy to get 100% crit build. (Also FYI for Pinpoint to work on ranged attacks you have to activate it while hold a melee weapon and then switch to a ranged weapon, losing a second or two of its duration in progress).  

Duelist is much more beneficial to a melee character. Though I think you get a better benefit from a cunning build, since for a Dex or Str build you wont really need to worry about attack score.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Last Darkness wrote...

SuicidialBaby wrote...

All of dualist abilities benifit an archer.

btw, anyone that can tell me the default trigger for overwelm on the wolf & spider gets a cookie.

also, arnt pets and controls limited to only 1 per party on consoles?

No overwhelm for pets, and yes on consoles you only get 1 pet which is why I baught the ultimate edition for $30 when the EA store had a sale. 

The problem still remains, Archer do joke damage compared to every other class unless you build out-of-your-way heavily on it. Namely the easy to get 100% crit rate builds.

Though not all the abilities benefit....  Dueling is +10 attack and defense to yourself, this is the same bonus as Rally(which stacks with it btw) but that affects the whole party.  Upset Balance isnt so great since its melee only, but -20 Defense = + 20 Attack basicaly. Pinpoint Strike is nice but useless if your running a easy to get 100% crit build. (Also FYI for Pinpoint to work on ranged attacks you have to activate it while hold a melee weapon and then switch to a ranged weapon, losing a second or two of its duration in progress).  

Duelist is much more beneficial to a melee character. Though I think you get a better benefit from a cunning build, since for a Dex or Str build you wont really need to worry about attack score.

Question, can you get 100% crit without Shayle or stacking multiple Bards? With only one Bard what's the ideal build for an Origins archer, equipment and all? 

[Elhanan]

USArmyParatrooper wrote...

... With only one Bard what's the ideal build for an Origins archer, equipment and all? 

I would have to say Liliana....  *bazinga-rowr*

[Last Darkness]

USArmyParatrooper wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...

SuicidialBaby wrote...

All of dualist abilities benifit an archer.

btw, anyone that can tell me the default trigger for overwelm on the wolf & spider gets a cookie.

also, arnt pets and controls limited to only 1 per party on consoles?

No overwhelm for pets, and yes on consoles you only get 1 pet which is why I baught the ultimate edition for $30 when the EA store had a sale. 

The problem still remains, Archer do joke damage compared to every other class unless you build out-of-your-way heavily on it. Namely the easy to get 100% crit rate builds.

Though not all the abilities benefit....  Dueling is +10 attack and defense to yourself, this is the same bonus as Rally(which stacks with it btw) but that affects the whole party.  Upset Balance isnt so great since its melee only, but -20 Defense = + 20 Attack basicaly. Pinpoint Strike is nice but useless if your running a easy to get 100% crit build. (Also FYI for Pinpoint to work on ranged attacks you have to activate it while hold a melee weapon and then switch to a ranged weapon, losing a second or two of its duration in progress).  

Duelist is much more beneficial to a melee character. Though I think you get a better benefit from a cunning build, since for a Dex or Str build you wont really need to worry about attack score.

Question, can you get 100% crit without Shayle or stacking multiple Bards? With only one Bard what's the ideal build for an Origins archer, equipment and all? 

You can get close without multiple stacks, but like I said its an out of your way build.

What I dont get is why so many people are making the mistake of creating a single archer for their games(Which Bioware has admitted archery sucks in DA) when even with absolute optimum gear and setup you still only doing around 100-120 damage a attack. Compared to 3-5 times that for other as intensive builds.

You all know that a Bard/Assassin or a Bard/Duelist is much easier to make and much more effective right for a companion rogue right? (Bard Assassin is even better when you use the tactics mod that lets you tell your compansion to always try and backstab).

[swk3000]

Last Darkness wrote...

OP since you stated this for Leliana, I must tell you that she makes a better Bard/Assassin or Bard/Duelest then she does a Archer as shes presented in the game. Avoid making anyone a Archer generaly unless your specificaly building for that for your whole party (See link in my Sig)

How do you handle the fact that she doesn't position herself for backstabs? Because I run with her as an Archer entirely because I know she won't cause anywhere near the damage she could be causing simply because she won't swing aroud to the back of whatever enemy she's targeting.

[Last Darkness]

swk3000 wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...

OP since you stated this for Leliana, I must tell you that she makes a better Bard/Assassin or Bard/Duelest then she does a Archer as shes presented in the game. Avoid making anyone a Archer generaly unless your specificaly building for that for your whole party (See link in my Sig)

How do you handle the fact that she doesn't position herself for backstabs? Because I run with her as an Archer entirely because I know she won't cause anywhere near the damage she could be causing simply because she won't swing aroud to the back of whatever enemy she's targeting.

If your on PC theres a mod that allows the ai to make sure they move behind enemies and backstab.    Console....out of luck.

[SuicidalBaby]

um, wolf and spider pets use overwhelm on my game. ps3. they just dont trigger till the target is @25%ish health. which is nice vs humanoid boss but a waste vs grunts so low on health.

the trick for console backstabbing is to move the tank, not the rogue, in essence kiting the rogue and mobs into position for sustained bs kills. you only have to repostion once(5 mobs) or twice(6+) in any given fight with this if done right.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 19 février 2011 - 08:12 .

[USArmyParatrooper]

On Leliana being better at backstabbing, I don't see why that would be. She already comes with talent points spent on archery. Is it where they spend her attribute points?



BTW, I do have the respec mod.

[Last Darkness]

USArmyParatrooper wrote...

On Leliana being better at backstabbing, I don't see why that would be. She already comes with talent points spent on archery. Is it where they spend her attribute points?

BTW, I do have the respec mod.

Yeah shes cunning focused.  She makes a far better melee character then a archer.  Also those extra starter points dont really amount to much in the end. Particularly if you make her a assassin/backstaber then you dont even need to worry about talents except the first top 3 for duel wield and momentum.

I find shes best made as a Bard/Assassin or a Bard/Duelist. (Cunning focused) Her damage and usefulness as a archer with the exception of rain of arrows and arrow of slaying is pretty sad compared to the damage and stuns she can put out as a duel wielder. Hell you can even cheat and have her main hand Marics Sword and Offhand Rose Thorn if ya wanted bigger backstab numbers.

Its like why Alistair starts with alot of Dex and often makes a better duel wield warrior or even archer instead of weapon+shield as hes given.  Same can be said of Ohgren, hes a better sword+shield or duel wielder then he is a two hander.  Wynne makes a unstopable arcane warrior due to her insane spell power making all her sustained give huge benefits.

If you have the Respec Mod on PC, try some differant builds with your party members.

[swk3000]

Last Darkness wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...

OP since you stated this for Leliana, I must tell you that she makes a better Bard/Assassin or Bard/Duelest then she does a Archer as shes presented in the game. Avoid making anyone a Archer generaly unless your specificaly building for that for your whole party (See link in my Sig)

How do you handle the fact that she doesn't position herself for backstabs? Because I run with her as an Archer entirely because I know she won't cause anywhere near the damage she could be causing simply because she won't swing aroud to the back of whatever enemy she's targeting.

If your on PC theres a mod that allows the ai to make sure they move behind enemies and backstab.    Console....out of luck.

We console players seem to get the short end of the stick in a lot of ways.

[SuicidalBaby]

ps3 always gets the shaft on multi platform games, of any genre. Its tradition.

Leliana would make for a half way decent archer if all those talents were put toward the usefull abilities, such as; aim, mastery, shattering, and scatter shot. So making her a half way decent back staber is still 2-3x better than letting her use a bow. besides, the cunning stack can get rediculous real fast.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 20 février 2011 - 06:20 .

[ussnorway]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

um, wolf and spider pets use overwhelm on my game. ps3.

Does your wolf pet get the 'shred' attack as well?

[SuicidalBaby]

yes.



From what I can gather tactcs seem to be... (even @ lvl7)

Wolf:

enemy health >75% : shred

enemy health <25% : overwhelm



spider:

enemy health > 75% poison

???? : web

enemy health <25% : overwelm



bear: is annoyingly too slow and retarded. blocks doors and dps is crap. I dont use it at all.