55 réponses à ce sujet

[Jacks-Up]

I don't mean to criticize but Stamina seems to be a more of a
Constitution type trait. Actually it sounds more like a lot of a
Constitution type trait.

Stamina is the capability of sustaining prolonged stressful effort, in other words it's endurance which is physical, Willpower is 100% mental. Willpower will help you get over that last little bump or that last mile in a marathon but it cannot and will not carry you the whole way. Someone with high Constitution Can go longer without getting tired and if you're not tired what do you need Willpower for?

For those of you that snuggest you need willpower to do physical activity,
People do physical activity for fun you know.

A person that goes out with his friends everyday and plays soccer for instance because he loves the game is going to have high Stamina but not necessarily high Willpower. It doesn't take much Willpower to do something you like doing.

Believe it or not people play sports, go to the gym and yes even run because they like doing those things and like I said before It doesn't take much Willpower to do something you like doing, not becoming a couch potato is a nice side effect.

Before anyone says "It's for game balance" Would it be all right if Strength increases a character's spellpower score? Because that makes as much sense as Willpower effecting Stamina.

[Taleroth]

Do I need to cross-post all the responses disagreeing with you from the other thread? Or can I just say "I side with them?"

[soteria]

Sigh.

[Achromatis]

/facepalm



I didnt notice you started both these threads. Go back to Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

[elemental150]

I'm gonna disagree....I love fencing (sword fighting) and it is a high intensity sport while i doesn't take a lot of will power to start and go for an hour or two it does to go to an entire day of competition and fence all day long......plus in the game stamina effects physical abilities like weapon sweep and so forth so in my mind and experience with weapon play I can understand the will power connection.....

[Jacks-Up]

elemental150 wrote...

I'm gonna disagree....I love fencing (sword fighting) and it is a high intensity sport while i doesn't take a lot of will power to start and go for an hour or two it does to go to an entire day of competition and fence all day long......plus in the game stamina effects physical abilities like weapon sweep and so forth so in my mind and experience with weapon play I can understand the will power connection.....

Next time you go Fencing go when you have the flue or put weights in a backpack and see what happens.

[Hockey Beard]

I would point out that "Mental Toughness" is a huge component to many pro athlete's success. You can ask any athlete at any competitive level and see what they think of willpower and its effect on their 'game', and I claim that they will agree that it has a lot to do with how far they can push themselves past "the wall" that you hit when you are physically exhausted.



I am not suggesting that (like your argument) that Willpower exactly equals Stamina, but I do believe that it is a feasible factor in how much you can have.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Yeah. It'd take goddamn willpower to go fencing while you have the flu.

[JMOR]

I'm sorry, I have to ask, are you Flamechamp?

[Jacks-Up]

Hockey Beard wrote...

I would point out that "Mental Toughness" is a huge component to many pro athlete's success. You can ask any athlete at any competitive level and see what they think of willpower and its effect on their 'game', and I claim that they will agree that it has a lot to do with how far they can push themselves past "the wall" that you hit when you are physically exhausted.

I am not suggesting that (like your argument) that Willpower exactly equals Stamina, but I do believe that it is a feasible factor in how much you can have.

This I agree with but I've already said Willpower will help you get over that last little bump or that last
mile in a marathon but it cannot and will not carry you the whole way.  1/4 of the pie does not = 4/4

[felix4200]

Fact is that physical and mental health are known to be strongly correlated. Purely mental issues can have physical consequences, as several stresstest can show you.

[soteria]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Hockey Beard wrote...

I would point out that "Mental Toughness" is a huge component to many pro athlete's success. You can ask any athlete at any competitive level and see what they think of willpower and its effect on their 'game', and I claim that they will agree that it has a lot to do with how far they can push themselves past "the wall" that you hit when you are physically exhausted.

I am not suggesting that (like your argument) that Willpower exactly equals Stamina, but I do believe that it is a feasible factor in how much you can have.

This I agree with but I've already said Willpower will help you get over that last little bump or that last
mile in a marathon but it cannot and will not carry you the whole way.  1/4 of the pie does not = 4/4

I'm guessing you've never run a marathon.  Trust me, it's more than that last little hump that takes some willpower.  As much as anything, running that far can be incredibly boring, even if you ignore the natural desire to slow down that takes, um, "willpower" to overcome.  It also takes willpower to train for a marathon.  Training gives you the stamina to last.

[elemental150]

Jacks-Up wrote...

elemental150 wrote...

I'm gonna disagree....I love fencing (sword fighting) and it is a high intensity sport while i doesn't take a lot of will power to start and go for an hour or two it does to go to an entire day of competition and fence all day long......plus in the game stamina effects physical abilities like weapon sweep and so forth so in my mind and experience with weapon play I can understand the will power connection.....

Next time you go Fencing go when you have the flue or put weights in a backpack and see what happens.

I'm not saying that it doesn't take a certain amount of
constitution....but I think itis safe to assume that any character you are
going to be playing (as in a character that is choosen to be a gray warden)
will already have a certain amount of constitution......What I can say is that
after 2 hours of fencing and I am exhuasted and want to quite but still have
some 4 to 6 hours of fencing left (depending on how good I am doing in
compitition) it takes a lot of will power to pull up that little bit of
strength from inside that will keep me going for the next couple of hours….I
don’t feel that these remaining hours are some little hump or last leg of the
race that is easy to overcome.  It takes
a lot of will power to pull off skill when you are exhuasted. 

 

The best example I can think of is wrestling/fighting/martial
arts….if you have ever been in a fight especially if it goes to the ground, you
get exhausted with in minutes ….a long  fight
is going to last 20 to 30 minutes tops and by the end of the fight you are
going to be so exhausted that moving around is out of the question.  It is going to take an amazing amount of will
power to keep going through out the fight after the first couple of blows….if
you kow any fighting  techniques it is
going to take will power to use up what little energy you have left to pull
some of them off in the hopes to end the fight in your favor……trust me as much
as stamina is a factor I would say that will power is what keeps you going
after that first bit of tiredness hits you.

Modifié par elemental150, 28 octobre 2009 - 01:35 .

[SheffSteel]

This doesn't need to be an athletic/mental fitness simulation. It just has to be a good game.



The designers clearly spent some time discussing the problem of "dump stats" and it seems to me that their solution was to make an attribute do different things for different classes, so that different classes would increase that attibute for different reasons and get different benefits. Now, they might not have picked the very best name for Willpower - maybe they should have called it Spirit - but so what? It is what it is.

[kaispan]

I think we're just so used to them going together (stamina/constitution/hit points) in games that anything else sounds a bit off. I don't see that it really affects anything either way though; it's just a different name.

[Khadroth]

You may as well just come out and say the real reason you want the stat changed..."I want stam to come from const so I can put more points into Str!"

[Maria Caliban]

Open up the toolset and change the name 'stamina' to 'resolve.' Problem solved.

[Kilsot]

Khadroth has the right response. Developers make stats how they are because they have extensive knowledge of how their game works and how to balance said game. Its about balance within the game.

P.S. I don't like physical activity yet I participate in a very physically demanding sport. Same would go for most people who participate in team sports. They practice every day for weeks on end, build muscle, and learn the intricacies of their sport not because they enjoy those activities, but because they want to succeed. Without any willpower they will NOT grow at all.

P.P.S. Trust me, going to a fencing tournament sick takes a crapton of willpower. Especially in tournaments that have long breaks in between bouts. That quickly destroys any sort of constitution based stamina pretty quickly.

[Filmcaptain]

What Kilsot said.

[Sornin]

I tend to agree that Constitution is a seemingly more appropriate choice, but game balance must come first, and in terms of game balance Willpower is more logical.

If Constitution increased Stamina, then melee fighters would have an unfair advantage in stat distribution and could have builds with outrageous amounts of Strength and Constitution with no drawback.

[Jacks-Up]

soteria wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Hockey Beard wrote...

I would point out that "Mental Toughness" is a huge component to many pro athlete's success. You can ask any athlete at any competitive level and see what they think of willpower and its effect on their 'game', and I claim that they will agree that it has a lot to do with how far they can push themselves past "the wall" that you hit when you are physically exhausted.

I am not suggesting that (like your argument) that Willpower exactly equals Stamina, but I do believe that it is a feasible factor in how much you can have.

This I agree with but I've already said Willpower will help you get over that last little bump or that last
mile in a marathon but it cannot and will not carry you the whole way.  1/4 of the pie does not = 4/4

I'm guessing you've never run a marathon.  Trust me, it's more than that last little hump that takes some willpower.  As much as anything, running that far can be incredibly boring, even if you ignore the natural desire to slow down that takes, um, "willpower" to overcome.  It also takes willpower to train for a marathon.  Training gives you the stamina to last.

I've run a few actually and you need to be in pretty good shape before you run it.   Try running a marathon cold turkey and see how good you do.

Every athlete has to train and why do they train? To get there body in good physical condition. It might take some Willpower to get up and go out there but it does not give you Stamina sorry but Stamina is a physical trait if you don't believe me ask your doctor.

[Jacks-Up]

Sornin wrote...

I tend to agree that Constitution is a seemingly more appropriate choice, but game balance must come first, and in terms of game balance Willpower is more logical.

Would it be all right if Strength increases a
character's spellpower score  for game balance?  Because that makes as much sense as
Willpower effecting Stamina.

Kilsot wrote...


P.S. I don't like physical activity yet I participate in a very physically demanding sport. Same would go for most people who participate in team sports. They practice every day for weeks on end, build muscle, and learn the intricacies of their sport not because they enjoy those activities, but because they want to succeed. Without any willpower they will NOT grow at all.

I'm not saying that the dedicated will not do better I'm saying that some people like physical activity and have high Stamina yet not High Willpower.

somone who doesn't like physical activity such as yourself probably wouldn't understand this.

Kilsot wrote...

P.P.S. Trust me, going to a fencing tournament sick takes a crapton of willpower. Especially in tournaments that have long breaks in between bouts. That quickly destroys any sort of constitution based stamina pretty quickly.

Taking long breaks makes things easier on you not harder. It takes more Willpower to do something straight than to have breaks, It's also easier on your body. I don't know how you came to your conclusion.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 28 octobre 2009 - 09:20 .

[Jacks-Up]

 

The best example I can think of is wrestling/fighting/martial
arts….if you have ever been in a fight especially if it goes to the ground, you
get exhausted with in minutes ….a long  fight
is going to last 20 to 30 minutes tops and by the end of the fight you are
going to be so exhausted that moving around is out of the question.  It is going to take an amazing amount of will
power to keep going through out the fight after the first couple of blows….if
you kow any fighting  techniques it is
going to take will power to use up what little energy you have left to pull
some of them off in the hopes to end the fight in your favor……trust me as much
as stamina is a factor I would say that will power is what keeps you going
after that first bit of tiredness hits you.

Well as a fellow  MMA fan you should know that the #1 trait Is Conditioning, Conditioning. Conditioning. 
I've seen guys with a lot a heart get the crap kicked out of them by somone who was younger and stronger. "Ken vs Tito comes to mind"

Actually one of the signs of who is going to win the fight half way through is who looks fresher. If you're running on an empty & your opponent has half a tank left you better hope for a lucky hit because more often than not it's the guy who gets tired first that losses, Endurance is a key factor.

Look at Frank Mir After his accident he just didn't have his Conditioning and Physical shape he once had but arguably more heart. Willpower will help you at the end of a fight but cannot and will not carry you the whole way.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 28 octobre 2009 - 09:23 .

[thheNO]

"The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak"



There you have it. Even God has said that willpower=stamina

[Arttis]

Well in this game your constantly running around and fighting.Think of it this way they did not want to make the willpower attribute useless for the other classes.Gotta plan it out and make decisions on which attribute to focus on.