55 réponses à ce sujet

[Flamin Jesus]

JMOR wrote...

I'm sorry, I have to ask, are you Flamechamp?

*snicker*

[soteria]

Jacks-Up wrote...

soteria wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Hockey Beard wrote...

I would point out that "Mental Toughness" is a huge component to many pro athlete's success. You can ask any athlete at any competitive level and see what they think of willpower and its effect on their 'game', and I claim that they will agree that it has a lot to do with how far they can push themselves past "the wall" that you hit when you are physically exhausted.

I am not suggesting that (like your argument) that Willpower exactly equals Stamina, but I do believe that it is a feasible factor in how much you can have.

This I agree with but I've already said Willpower will help you get over that last little bump or that last
mile in a marathon but it cannot and will not carry you the whole way.  1/4 of the pie does not = 4/4

I'm guessing you've never run a marathon.  Trust me, it's more than that last little hump that takes some willpower.  As much as anything, running that far can be incredibly boring, even if you ignore the natural desire to slow down that takes, um, "willpower" to overcome.  It also takes willpower to train for a marathon.  Training gives you the stamina to last.

I've run a few actually and you need to be in pretty good shape before you run it.   Try running a marathon cold turkey and see how good you do.

Every athlete has to train and why do they train? To get there body in good physical condition. It might take some Willpower to get up and go out there but it does not give you Stamina sorry but Stamina is a physical trait if you don't believe me ask your doctor.

Just from how obtuse (and probably dishonest) your responses are, I'm gonna have to agree with the guy who said you just want to be able to stack str and con and ignore those other pesky stats.

[Flamin Jesus]

The most realistic way would be for constitution to offer the biggest stamina bonus and willpower to grant a smaller one.



But then every warrior and rogue would use will as their dump stat, BW wanted to avoid that, that's all there is to it.

[gethsemani87]

Once upon a time I was in the army. We had survival exercises as part of basic training, at which point we had to go three days without any food apart from what we ourselves could find. One could of course argue that the one with the better stamina would fare better after three days of starvation and freezing. But they don't. The ability to endure mentally is far more important in those cases, because what breaks you isn't that you can't do anything, but rather that your body is screaming at you that it doesn't want to do anything because it lacks energy.



I imagine that that is the reasoning behind Willpower as the deciding attribute for talents. The hard part isn't to have the physical endurance to continually kick someone in the groin. It is the fact that your foot starts to go numb from striking metal constantly.

[Arttis]

After attacking constantly your gonna need some willpower to push yourself to do your powerful strike or fast attacks.How would you explain sustained abilities though?

[Jacks-Up]

soteria wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

soteria wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

Hockey Beard wrote...

I would point out that "Mental Toughness" is a huge component to many pro athlete's success. You can ask any athlete at any competitive level and see what they think of willpower and its effect on their 'game', and I claim that they will agree that it has a lot to do with how far they can push themselves past "the wall" that you hit when you are physically exhausted.

I am not suggesting that (like your argument) that Willpower exactly equals Stamina, but I do believe that it is a feasible factor in how much you can have.

This I agree with but I've already said Willpower will help you get over that last little bump or that last
mile in a marathon but it cannot and will not carry you the whole way.  1/4 of the pie does not = 4/4

I'm guessing you've never run a marathon.  Trust me, it's more than that last little hump that takes some willpower.  As much as anything, running that far can be incredibly boring, even if you ignore the natural desire to slow down that takes, um, "willpower" to overcome.  It also takes willpower to train for a marathon.  Training gives you the stamina to last.

I've run a few actually and you need to be in pretty good shape before you run it.   Try running a marathon cold turkey and see how good you do.

Every athlete has to train and why do they train? To get there body in good physical condition. It might take some Willpower to get up and go out there but it does not give you Stamina sorry but Stamina is a physical trait if you don't believe me ask your doctor.

Just from how obtuse (and probably dishonest) your responses are, I'm gonna have to agree with the guy who said you just want to be able to stack str and con and ignore those other pesky stats.

Point out the obtuse and dishonest parts pl.   I'm probably the most honest one on here because I'm one of the few that seems to realize what kinda physical conditioning you need to do some of these activity's.

I don't care how much Willpower you have you can't just jump in any sport and be good at it or keep up. That's how people have heart attacks, It's also why physical trainers tell you to take it slow at first & Why you don't see fat people on a Track $ Field area except on the sides watching.

Willpower is simply having the ability to do or not do something you don't want to do. It can't give you somthing you don't already have.

[Jacks-Up]

Arttis wrote...

After attacking constantly your gonna need some willpower to push yourself to do your powerful strike or fast attacks.How would you explain sustained abilities though?

Yes you are right After 450 swings you're going to need Willpower to do the last 50 but Willpower isn't going to give you the ability yo do all 500.

[Bagaget]

gethsemani87 wrote...

Once upon a time I was in the army. We had survival exercises as part of basic training, at which point we had to go three days without any food apart from what we ourselves could find. One could of course argue that the one with the better stamina would fare better after three days of starvation and freezing. But they don't. The ability to endure mentally is far more important in those cases, because what breaks you isn't that you can't do anything, but rather that your body is screaming at you that it doesn't want to do anything because it lacks energy.

This.

[grossebaff]

well... since it's bioware game and they say willpower= stamina for DAO... i'll beleive them and stop arguing....

[Arttis]

I think were all forgetting the stress of battle and being hurt constantly while still having the will to continue.Sure you can last a long time but with your body saying stop i don't wanna be hurt anymore your gonna need willpower to keep you in the fight.Also the possibility of death.

[Jacks-Up]

gethsemani87 wrote...

Once upon a time I was in the army. We had survival exercises as part of basic training, at which point we had to go three days without any food apart from what we ourselves could find. One could of course argue that the one with the better stamina would fare better after three days of starvation and freezing. But they don't. The ability to endure mentally is far more important in those cases, because what breaks you isn't that you can't do anything, but rather that your body is screaming at you that it doesn't want to do anything because it lacks energy.

I imagine that that is the reasoning behind Willpower as the deciding attribute for talents. The hard part isn't to have the physical endurance to continually kick someone in the groin. It is the fact that your foot starts to go numb from striking metal constantly.

Find me somone in the army with low CON  "not very physically fit" with High Willpower that can keep up with the rest of the physically fit soldiers and I may change my mined.

[RomperStomper]

its all semantics. either way, if you are in a fight, after 1 minute it is all willpower. regardless of how much stamina you have. guess what this game is mainly comprised of?

[Jacks-Up]

Arttis wrote...

I think were all forgetting the stress of battle and being hurt constantly while still having the will to continue.Sure you can last a long time but with your body saying stop i don't wanna be hurt anymore your gonna need willpower to keep you in the fight.Also the possibility of death.

Well that's more Physical Resistance than Stamina and Physical Resistance is tied to CON. Actually Physical Resistance makes more sense to be tied to Willpower because you need Willpower to push through the pain.

[Jacks-Up]

RomperStomper wrote...

its all semantics. either way, if you are in a fight, after 1 minute it is all willpower. regardless of how much stamina you have. guess what this game is mainly comprised of?

If both fighters are really out of shape than I suspose so.

[Darthnemesis2]

Damn... where's Lucy's Riker Facepalm when you need it?


Ah, here it is.

Modifié par Darthnemesis2, 28 octobre 2009 - 10:35 .

[Jacks-Up]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

The most realistic way would be for constitution to offer the biggest stamina bonus and willpower to grant a smaller one.

If they had of done it this way it would make more sense but as it stands now with Willpower = 100% STA ...No way or else every fat guy with a pipe dream would be in the Olympics.  Well at least 1 or 2.

[SheffSteel]

Who - apart from Jacks - wants DA:O to be a martial arts sim?

[Jacks-Up]

SheffSteel wrote...

Who - apart from Jacks - wants DA:O to be a martial arts sim?

I want that?  Since when I wasn't even the one that brought martial arts up I just countered and corrected somone that tried to use it as an example. Do you even read what people put anymore?

[Mordaedil]

Just curious, why does this matter? Would it be the same if they had called it "tricks up my sleeve" bar?

[J.O.G]

Perhaps we should first see what "stamina" is actually good for?
It's the limit set to the number of special moves and skills a warrior or rogue can use.
To increase "stamina" you use soothing balm instead of stimulants.

Constitution defines your char's health and resistance to physical stress.
Willpower defines the char's determination to do special moves rather than just strike and parry swordplay.

It may or may not be a good example, but in Journeys I played a sword&shield dwarven warrior that pretty much never ran out of stamina, because he never used special moves, and he also never got knocked down or even just hurt badly because he's some tough little bastard.

Martine on the other hand is completely addicted to soothing balm by now...

Modifié par J.O.G, 29 octobre 2009 - 07:56 .

[Jacks-Up]

thheNO wrote...

"The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak"

There you have it. Even God has said that willpower=stamina

I thought that was Zapp Brannigan from Futurama when he was having sex with all thoes giant women.

Besides More Constitution = More Semen would of helped him.

[SheffSteel]

I like what you've done with your thread.

[kane442]

i would have worked as

1) willpower makes attacks cheeper.

2) con gives you a larger pool

simple and makes sense

[Jacks-Up]

Mordaedil wrote...

Just curious, why does this matter? Would it be the same if they had called it "tricks up my sleeve" bar?

No than I would of said it should be based on Cunning not Willpower.

[Kilsot]

Jacks-Up wrote...
I'm not saying that the dedicated will not
do better I'm saying that some people like physical activity and have
high Stamina yet not High Willpower.

somone who doesn't like physical activity such as yourself probably wouldn't understand this.

I understand perfectly.
And someone with high will power can have low stamina. But this has little bearing on this argument. It should be understood that stamina is something that can be nurtured and strengthened at a much faster rate than willpower. If I spent a couple months doing cardio and strength training I should be able to run longer and lift more for longer perionds of time than I can right now. But I would need the willpower to go out each day and train my body to gain that stamina increase. For some people this would be a relatively minor thing as they enjoy the activity, for others this is an obstacle that their will power would have to overcome.

Jacks-Up wrote...

Taking long breaks makes things easier on you not harder. It takes more Willpower to do something straight than to have breaks, It's also easier on your body. I don't know how you came to your conclusion.

Can a sprinter run for as long as a long distance runner? Chances are they do not have the training to last that long as their muscles and endurance are built for stop/go exersicing instead of one long run. Unless you actually participate in a sport I suggest that you do not come to conclusions on how exhusting mentally and physically it is.

Quick question: This thread would not be here if it was named something appropriate and had the same mechanic to it correct?

Modifié par Kilsot, 31 octobre 2009 - 02:12 .