136 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreadstruck]

AlexXIV wrote...

Ealos wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

The big problem with fantasy gamers is that they consider super human combat to be realistic in the absence of a few flashy moves. I have news for everyone: No game has ever made realistic combat. It is all a bunch of super-human nonsense. You want realistic combat then you make people winded, slow, add grappling, severely injured in a single hit, easy to be overwhelmed fighting more than 1 person at a time, sloppy instead of flashy, and downright brutal and horrible instead of valorous.

Would be a long, long game in the real world, lots of quick loading

In a realistic game you don't have save games. And no starting over either. One shot and if you fail you never see the end.

I guess the closest thing we are talking about is ArmA2?

[boohead]

Beats DAO1's combat animations and standing still while shuffling to attack.

[Sidac]

DA Trap Star wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Cocaine.

That Snow white is a helluva drug

[Ealos]

AlexXIV wrote...




In a realistic game you don't have save games. And no starting over either. One shot and if you fail you never see the end.

Of course, was forgetting. I don't see it selling well, I must say.

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlexXIV wrote...

In a realistic game you don't have save games. And no starting over either. One shot and if you fail you never see the end.

That doesn't make any sense at all.  Why wouldn't there be reloading?

[Gill Kaiser]

bloodreaperfx wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

^ It's not really the same. There is actually explanation for the existance of all those things ingame.

It is exactly the same. The OP asks why rogues or warriors go all kung-fu during fights....because it is a fantasy game, and they just can. Real world laws dont apply here. What makes you think a rogue's training can't allow him to jump 10 feet in the air when a mage can throw fireballs?

That's moronic. It's not remotely the same, and you know it.

[Skilled Seeker]

Its the framed narrative I bet. And it does look a lot better than DA:O's combat.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 18 février 2011 - 09:15 .

[FurousJoe]

Naitaka wrote...

They're all secretly Koreans, who we know all have supernatural over-the-top flashy kung-fu power.

Koreans are definatly not over the top, this looks pretty plausible to me!

[SkyWard20]

JigPig wrote...

Carry 200 pieces of armor. Fine.
Magic that can shapeshift people into giant corrupted spiders. Fine.
Magic that can freeze people, or burn them alive. Fine.
Giant spiders. Fine.
Darkspawn. Fine
Dragons. Fine
Elves. Fine
Dwarves. Fine.
Werewolves. Fine.
Special warrior or rogue ability... OMG WHERE IS TEH EXPLANATION

People really need to learn a new explanation other than "it's fantasy so nothing has to make sense". I'm not a damn writer, but even I suspect that there must be some level of consistency in a writer's mind for the worlds they create. I expect that some parts of the world to function like our own unless it is specifically explained that X happens differently from ours.

There is no lamer excuse I've ever heard in defense of a fantasy setting that basically says 'it doesn't have to make any sense, deal with it', especially considering that some of the best authors their fantasy world detailed at every point.

Or do people prefer to have historical inconsistencies like in 10.000 B.C., which sucked?

All those creatures have a reason for existing in Dragon Age -- they are explained.

That said, I have no problem with this in Dragon Age because:

-- it's a 'framed narrative'

-- gameplay mechanics.

I don't complain if my character gets hit x15 times over and over and recovers all his health in 2 seconds after the fight.

Modifié par SkyWard20, 18 février 2011 - 09:28 .

[SkyWard20]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

^ It's not really the same. There is actually explanation for the existance of all those things ingame.

It is exactly the same. The OP asks why rogues or warriors go all kung-fu during fights....because it is a fantasy game, and they just can. Real world laws dont apply here. What makes you think a rogue's training can't allow him to jump 10 feet in the air when a mage can throw fireballs?

That's moronic. It's not remotely the same, and you know it.

On one hand I could accept that characters in Dragon Age can display incredible feats of acrobacy ( like in Prince of Persia ) if it is explained or made obvious, but there's also the 'story within a story' mechanic that can make that happen.

There's nothing wrong with over-the-top action, by  the way -- it's just that, at this point, you have a pretty solid idea after playing Dragon Age on how the world works. Warriors or rogues can't display superhuman feats if we just go by what we've seen in the first game, unless they make pacts with spirits or are somehow otherwise helped by magic; it wouldn't make much sense to dismiss that now 'just because it's a fantasy setting'.

Modifié par SkyWard20, 18 février 2011 - 09:37 .

[Alex Kershaw]

Kinda agree...

[Alex Kershaw]

JigPig wrote...



Carry 200 pieces of armor. Fine.

Magic that can shapeshift people into giant corrupted spiders. Fine.

Magic that can freeze people, or burn them alive. Fine.

Giant spiders. Fine.

Darkspawn. Fine

Dragons. Fine

Elves. Fine

Dwarves. Fine.

Werewolves. Fine.

Special warrior or rogue ability... OMG WHERE IS TEH EXPLANATION



---



Yes but it's explained that some people are born in magical talent and can use spells. We know that things like elves could have existed if Gods existed in the game, or through evolution or whatever. That list is completely different to a warrior who can't use magic, using something that is impossible...

[Dr. wonderful]

I find it stupid people are complaining this.



"Oh no! Bioware broke my immersion about how a Rogue should act!" Rogue to me should ALWAYS be the fastest.



Hell, this is better then da:o

[Kreid]

There is no "explanation" for it, it's like this to give style and flair to the game.
If DA:O was remade the animations would be like DA2 this is just a more polished version of the developer's vision.

Modifié par Creid-X, 18 février 2011 - 09:50 .

[Shifty Assassin]

 Rogues are fly dancer
mages on crack
and warriors on steroidsB)


im joking its a game the explanations what you want it to be

[Zaros]

Oh look, this thread again.

Alex Kershaw wrote...

JigPig wrote...

Carry 200 pieces of armor. Fine.
Magic that can shapeshift people into giant corrupted spiders. Fine.
Magic that can freeze people, or burn them alive. Fine.
Giant spiders. Fine.
Darkspawn. Fine
Dragons. Fine
Elves. Fine
Dwarves. Fine.
Werewolves. Fine.
Special warrior or rogue ability... OMG WHERE IS TEH EXPLANATION

---

Yes
but it's explained that some people are born in magical talent and can
use spells. We know that things like elves could have existed if Gods
existed in the game, or through evolution or whatever. That list is
completely different to a warrior who can't use magic, using something
that is impossible...

Alrighty then, explain why my Grey Warden is totally fine with calling and allowing a Blight Wolf to follow him around, when his goal should be slaying any instances of the blight.

Modifié par Zaros, 18 février 2011 - 10:08 .

[bloodreaperfx]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

^ It's not really the same. There is actually explanation for the existance of all those things ingame.

It is exactly the same. The OP asks why rogues or warriors go all kung-fu during fights....because it is a fantasy game, and they just can. Real world laws dont apply here. What makes you think a rogue's training can't allow him to jump 10 feet in the air when a mage can throw fireballs?

That's moronic. It's not remotely the same, and you know it.

If you care to read my whole point instead of nitpicking sentences you will find a much broader ideea, suitable to your intelect. Regardless of what your oppinion is, things wont change. Take it or leave it. At this point all complains are pretty much rage vents, since they have no impact on the game whatsoever, and thats......yeah im not gonna say it.

[Alex Kershaw]

Zaros wrote...

Oh look, this thread again.

Alex Kershaw wrote...

JigPig wrote...

Carry 200 pieces of armor. Fine.
Magic that can shapeshift people into giant corrupted spiders. Fine.
Magic that can freeze people, or burn them alive. Fine.
Giant spiders. Fine.
Darkspawn. Fine
Dragons. Fine
Elves. Fine
Dwarves. Fine.
Werewolves. Fine.
Special warrior or rogue ability... OMG WHERE IS TEH EXPLANATION

---

Yes
but it's explained that some people are born in magical talent and can
use spells. We know that things like elves could have existed if Gods
existed in the game, or through evolution or whatever. That list is
completely different to a warrior who can't use magic, using something
that is impossible...

Alrighty then, explain why my Grey Warden is totally fine with calling and allowing a Blight Wolf to follow him around, when his goal should be slaying any instances of the blight.

But at least that's YOUR decision to make. If you decide that you'd rather use ONE of the blight-affected creatures to help your goal, then you can do that. If you find it morally wrong, you can do that. That is completely different to a warrior/rogue who cannot perform magic, performing magic...

[Giantdeathrobot]

 Guys, please stop with the 'it's fantasy, hurr durr'. Might as well thrown in laser rifles, man-portable nukes (yuck) and planet-sized pink-coloured bases with country-sized candy cannons with that argument. 'Fantasy' is such a large concept it can't be used to defend an idea.

I, for once, agree with Sylvius (and others) on that one; dragons and magic and dwarves and stuff are all consistent with the setting, and explained by the Codex in great details. However, as far we know, nothing says that people in Thedas suddendly suffered a genetic mutation that caused them to gain superhuman strenght and stamina and the ability to teleport at will, all in jerky, omg-so-flashy-look-at-me-im-a-DMC-ripoff glory.

Now, I am OK with adding some flair to abilities, but they went way overboard, especially with the rogues; make them move faster, add nice looking abilities, fix pathing problems and, ah, ''shuffling'' (whatever that is) and presto, we have something that looks deadly without breaking suspension of disbelief. Now we got something that looks completely out of place with the rest of the fairly serious setting what with all the backflips and teleportation and instant smoke bombs and friggin roundhouse kicking flasks (well I admit that last one would be really nice in God of War or something, just not in a so-called Dark Fantasy like Dragon Age). How can I take combat seriously when the characters put as much effort as possible in looking ''cool'' at the detriment of even basic sense of self-preservation? 

[Alex Kershaw]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

 Guys, please stop with the 'it's fantasy, hurr durr'. Might as well thrown in laser rifles, man-portable nukes (yuck) and planet-sized pink-coloured bases with country-sized candy cannons with that argument. 'Fantasy' is such a large concept it can't be used to defend an idea.

I, for once, agree with Sylvius (and others) on that one; dragons and magic and dwarves and stuff are all consistent with the setting, and explained by the Codex in great details. However, as far we know, nothing says that people in Thedas suddendly suffered a genetic mutation that caused them to gain superhuman strenght and stamina and the ability to teleport at will, all in jerky, omg-so-flashy-look-at-me-im-a-DMC-ripoff glory.

Now, I am OK with adding some flair to abilities, but they went way overboard, especially with the rogues; make them move faster, add nice looking abilities, fix pathing problems and, ah, ''shuffling'' (whatever that is) and presto, we have something that looks deadly without breaking suspension of disbelief. Now we got something that looks completely out of place with the rest of the fairly serious setting what with all the backflips and teleportation and instant smoke bombs and friggin roundhouse kicking flasks (well I admit that last one would be really nice in God of War or something, just not in a so-called Dark Fantasy like Dragon Age). How can I take combat seriously when the characters put as much effort as possible in looking ''cool'' at the detriment of even basic sense of self-preservation? 

+1

[Sharn01]

This debate has been done before and its just as rediculous now as it was then.  There is no lore based explanation to the combat animations, people trying to defend that should just give up because it doesnt exsist. 

Q: Why can a mage throw a fireball but a rogue cant jump 10 feet into the air?
A: The mage has magic, which lore wise exists in Thedas, the rogue does not.

If you want to defend it, defend it intelligently, here is a good argument.

The combat mechanics do not reflect the lore of the world, so I dont consider it a big deal if the combat animations dont either.

Thats a good argument, abominations and mages are supposed to be extremely powerful lore wise, but are no more difficult to beat then any other enemy in the games combat mechanics. 

A lot of this all comes down to opinion, at what point does a persons suspension of disbelief become broken, so its very easy to find two people who disagree on this subject, but please, quit making up your own lore and rules to explain things in a game world that already has its own set of lore and rules, which yours do not align with.  There are plenty of good and intelligent arguments to make that do not need to. 

Modifié par Sharn01, 18 février 2011 - 10:43 .

[Noviere]

SkyWard20 wrote...

There's nothing wrong with over-the-top action, by  the way -- it's just that, at this point, you have a pretty solid idea after playing Dragon Age on how the world works. Warriors or rogues can't display superhuman feats if we just go by what we've seen in the first game, unless they make pacts with spirits or are somehow otherwise helped by magic; it wouldn't make much sense to dismiss that now 'just because it's a fantasy setting'.

I disagree with the assertion that rogues and warriors in DAO couldn't perform super-human feats.

My rogue could turn invisible while surrounded by a swarm of enemies. My warrior could yell so powerfully that the enemies he was facing would fly backwards onto ground. Bards, who supposedly have no magical powers, can stun enemies with their "song."

Are the animations in DAO less flashy? Yup. But the actual abilities of the characters are no less fantastical.

[Gill Kaiser]

SkyWard20 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

^ It's not really the same. There is actually explanation for the existance of all those things ingame.

It is exactly the same. The OP asks why rogues or warriors go all kung-fu during fights....because it is a fantasy game, and they just can. Real world laws dont apply here. What makes you think a rogue's training can't allow him to jump 10 feet in the air when a mage can throw fireballs?

That's moronic. It's not remotely the same, and you know it.

On one hand I could accept that characters in Dragon Age can display incredible feats of acrobacy ( like in Prince of Persia ) if it is explained or made obvious, but there's also the 'story within a story' mechanic that can make that happen.

There's nothing wrong with over-the-top action, by  the way -- it's just that, at this point, you have a pretty solid idea after playing Dragon Age on how the world works. Warriors or rogues can't display superhuman feats if we just go by what we've seen in the first game, unless they make pacts with spirits or are somehow otherwise helped by magic; it wouldn't make much sense to dismiss that now 'just because it's a fantasy setting'.

I agree. I don't really have a problem with the stylised combat. I recognise it as metaphorical.

Bloodreaper saying that the stylised combat is actually happening by reference to the fact that "it's fantasy" is a fallacious argument. Just because magic and dragons exist in the Dragon Age world doesn't mean that everything is fair game. For a world to be believable it must have an internal logic (unless the point of the place is that it doesn't, like the Fade).

[drahelvete]

My rogue won't "teleport", s/he will use a smoke/flash bomb and then quickly sneak around his/her opponent to deliver a backstab.

[The Baconer]

Noviere wrote...

SkyWard20 wrote...

There's nothing wrong with over-the-top action, by  the way -- it's just that, at this point, you have a pretty solid idea after playing Dragon Age on how the world works. Warriors or rogues can't display superhuman feats if we just go by what we've seen in the first game, unless they make pacts with spirits or are somehow otherwise helped by magic; it wouldn't make much sense to dismiss that now 'just because it's a fantasy setting'.

I disagree with the assertion that rogues and warriors in DAO couldn't perform super-human feats.

My rogue could turn invisible while surrounded by a swarm of enemies. My warrior could yell so powerfully that the enemies he was facing would fly backwards onto ground. Bards, who supposedly have no magical powers, can stun enemies with their "song."

Are the animations in DAO less flashy? Yup. But the actual abilities of the characters are no less fantastical.

This is all that needs to be said, really.