230 réponses à ce sujet

[JrayM16]

Gatt9 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

It's called an opinion. You may have heard of it.

That one isn't opinion,  it's fact.  They stripped pretty much every RPG component out of ME2 and replaced it with Gears of War. 

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Babli]

Mass Effect 2 was NOT dumbed down!



I just love this picture

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Kotaku and Gawker in general are =way= down for readership since the redesign. They be trollin'.

[Therefore_I_Am]

Gleym wrote...

I love all the panic that's going on now that a lot of the complaints from unhappy ME1 fans (who were dismissed as a minority) are being repeated by game websites. 'Cause, y'know, god forbid that the complaints might actually be considered valid and not dismissible as 'whiny nitpicking'.

That very minority are people who run those sites... They are the "old conservatives" of the ME fanbase that complain about changes and want things to remain as they always are. You can either adapt, or run off and bury your head in a pillow, because that's how the game industry works. The ME2 squad distribution was just as tactful as the original ME1, all I notice was less levels and less skill points. That is all.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 18 février 2011 - 08:41 .

[RiouHotaru]

Babli wrote...

Mass Effect 2 was NOT dumbed down!



I just love this picture

Not accurate.  "Streamlining", is nowhere near the same as "dumbing down".  About half the skills on the ME1 pic were useless, and each skill level provided negligible bonuses.  At least in ME2, every skill level felt like a real and honest upgrade and the differences between each skill level were significant.

Next time try not using blatant lies.

[DTKT]

Honestly, I would enjoy more skills and a classic inventory system.

[Fixers0]

Babli wrote...

Mass Effect 2 was NOT dumbed down!



I just love this picture

I will have to agree with this one, of course Dumbed down is a big word, be the removal of some of the skills, like Weapon training, Charm and Intimidate and Electronics and decryption didn't contribute either to the RPG Character of this game.

[Whatever42]

We need more MOAR threads on this topic!

Actually, all the article was talking about was complaints from RPG gamers that like the traditional, more tactical mechanics and was assuring them that those mechanics were in DA2. Good.

Plz stop trollin.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 18 février 2011 - 08:47 .

[cachx]

The big flaw of that article is in the first goddamn words: Older gamers worry, with years of justification, ...

Actual older gamers remember the days when games were simple and fun.

[Frraksurred]

As an older gamer (42) I also remember when games were genre pioneers, as well as watered down sequels riding on the coat tales of their franchise. These things are not new.



ME1 and ME2 are both great games, but to say that ME2 is not dumbed down in comparison to ME1, let alone DA, is to be in denial.

[cachx]

Frraksurred wrote...
ME1 and ME2 are both great games, but to say that ME2 is not dumbed down in comparison to ME1, let alone DA, is to be in denial.

Denial is actually pretending that the clusterfuky and awkward systems in ME1 were "smart".

Also, as pointed out above:
"Streamlining", is nowhere near the same as "dumbing down"

Mmm, I think we have been down this road a little too many times.

[Greybox_Inception]

Babli wrote...

Mass Effect 2 was NOT dumbed down!



I just love this picture

it totally was. you made more money in mass effect 1 than in mass effect 2 too. LMAO:wizard:

[Greybox_Inception]

Nashiktal wrote...

Mass Effect 2 was indeed dumbed down. However Bioware also improved enough of the game for me to forgive them and look forward to ME3.

:unsure:i think i'll be around to play mass effect 3, can't wait to play it.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

cachx wrote...

The big flaw of that article is in the first goddamn words: Older gamers worry, with years of justification, ...

Actual older gamers remember the days when games were simple and fun.

I don't think simplicity has anything to do with fun, really, in the same way that playing Risk can only be fun for so long, while Dungeons and Dragons can be incredibly addicting if you have some understanding of the rules.

Some people just think shooting guns at stuff and killing things is fun enough, while others find it much more enjoyable to use tactics to take down an enemy (ala DA or Starcraft) or build an infrastructure to support their army while trying to defend it from attackers. It all depends on how your brain handles anticipation, delayed gratification, etc... and, really, implying that a game can only be "fun" if it's "simple" is a gross oversimplification of the allure of videogames in itself.

Modifié par Mr. MannlyMan, 18 février 2011 - 10:05 .

[Evil Johnny 666]

Mesina2 wrote...

Mass Effect 2 is NOTHING like Gears of War.

We must not be playing the same game. Basically the gameplay mechanics are the same.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Mass Effect is more like GRAW than Gears of War IMO.
When it comes to combat of course.

Modifié par Da_Lion_Man, 18 février 2011 - 10:06 .

[Nashiktal]

Gears of War? I remember games doing cover mechanics long before Gears of War. Killswitch comes to mind.

[lazuli]

RiouHotaru wrote...


Not accurate.  "Streamlining", is nowhere near the same as "dumbing down".  About half the skills on the ME1 pic were useless, and each skill level provided negligible bonuses.  At least in ME2, every skill level felt like a real and honest upgrade and the differences between each skill level were significant.

Next time try not using blatant lies.

The needless language differences in that image add another layer of false feature loss.

[SnowHeart1]

I loved ME2. There was a lot of improvement on ME2 from ME. The storytelling in ME2 was just as good as in ME1. And, yes, the "RP elements" in ME2 were "dumbed down" for a wider audience, and no, I did not like that, but I still thought it was a great game. The two things do not have to be mutually exclusive.

[Shotokanguy]

Wow, I like how he says the stuff in Dragon Age 2 might be too much for a Mass Effect player.



Elitism is alive and well in the video game industry these days. Call of Duty probably started it.

[Evil Johnny 666]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Not accurate.  "Streamlining", is nowhere near the same as "dumbing down".  About half the skills on the ME1 pic were useless, and each skill level provided negligible bonuses.  At least in ME2, every skill level felt like a real and honest upgrade and the differences between each skill level were significant.

Next time try not using blatant lies.

First off, there's something important your missing. Streamlining, is making systems or mechanics simpler and easier to use, without necessarily taking out some of its depth, it can, but usually for a better experience, to make things less needlessly complicated. Dumbing down on the other hand, is going further than streamlining, it's taking out entire mechanics/systems rather than taking out the needless and making them simpler/easier to use, or making them overly simplistic so it loses part of its purpose and a great deal of its depth. We ALL agreed ME1's inventory was clunky and overly complicated for its own good. So we could ALL agree on streamlining, except Bioware didn't streamline it, they deleted the whole thing, thus dumbing down the game. Big difference.

Secondly, the skill thing is still dumbing down, because it's an entirely different system. They didn't took out useless skills or made the system simpler, they scratched the whole thing and replaced with skills that has almost nothing to do with RPGs. Gone are all the real, character abilities, and welcome special ammos and such, things that can be bought, things that mean nothing in an RPG context. THAT is dumbing down. If they didn't, we'd still have a real RPG skillset, refined, simplified, whatever, but it would still be there instead of non-existent. The new skill thingy defeats the original purpose, it made something that was initially put in the game for depth and took everything that made the system give depth to the game out. Yes you can choose "skills", but none of them really have an effect on anything, at least nothing that changes how you play the game.

Want other dumbing down examples? Mods. Instead of getting mods and making combinations of them to make the gun stronger, you have a machine that basically gives your gun an upgrade if you have the money. And it's just an upgrade, gone are the efffects that are more dangerous to some enemies and all those (relative) subtleties, it's merely simply getting your gun better rather than customizing it for your needs. So instead of simplifying weapon customization, streamlining it, they scrapped the whole thing and replaced it with a press A if you have the cash machine that in no way customizes anything, and only serves one need which is getting a stronger weapon.

Really, it's not that hard to understand dudes...

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 18 février 2011 - 10:33 .

[Saren100]

Umm anyone notice that person is calling us all stupid...



"What I saw was something that might stress a Mass Effect player, that might sail over their head."

[InvaderErl]

Gleym wrote...

I love all the panic that's going on now that a lot of the complaints from unhappy ME1 fans (who were dismissed as a minority) are being repeated by game websites. 'Cause, y'know, god forbid that the complaints might actually be considered valid and not dismissible as 'whiny nitpicking'.

ITS ALL OVER FOLKS! You heard it from Gleym, ME2 is universally hated now! Nevermind that its won or come in 2nd on every public poll during the GOTY session, nevermind its recieved a staggering number of GOTY awards, nevermind its been praised critically and by the mainstream in too many places to count. A single editor on Kotaku made a dig! That completely proves that ME2 is the WOST GAME EVAR.

Please.

Edit:

Reading through the comments page you may have jumped the gun in proclaiming his some kind of brother in arms

StephenTotilo

@Theoutlet
Fri 18 Feb 2011 12:49 PM

"I like Mass Effect, too! Though navigating through the Normandy could still use some streamlining."

Modifié par InvaderErl, 18 février 2011 - 10:47 .

[Sentox6]

Saren100 wrote...

Umm anyone notice that person is calling us all stupid...

"What I saw was something that might stress a Mass Effect player, that might sail over their head."

Yeah, that's a cheap shot. On the flipside, more than a few people around here (myself included, at times) can't resist implying that dedicated shooter fans lack the attention span to deal with the depth of ME's character interaction (to put it diplomatically).

Let's face it, a lot of RPG elements were removed or at least stripped down in ME2. This isn't necessarily a good or a bad thing.

Modifié par Sentox6, 18 février 2011 - 10:39 .