Re: Cerberus
[quote]Except Bioware didn't use the opportunity of the teaming up with Cerberus to do anything at all about the moral implications[/quote]
Missed the whole blowing up/keeping the Collector Base thingy? And the rescue in Overlord, too.
[quote] Bioware dropped the ball on making an actual mature game, they were tried too much to be sure to not loose the new group of people they were catering to, as showed by oh so many narrative elements scattered throughout the whole thing - music, cinematics, etc..[/quote]
Which is it: Dumbed down or all things to all people? You can't have both..
[quote]And the fact that you had no choice cheapened the whole thing. How the hell can there be moral implications if you do not choose yourself to worth with them? [/quote]
I presume you meant "work" instead of "worth."
Because my Sherpard is a loyal member of the Alliance who doesn't go get Mordin first. He goes straight to the Citadel to present Cerberus' new major investments -including himslef -- to the Alliance and the Council, only to find that they have decided to put him, his ship, the crew and the Cerberus connections to good use.
[quote]Just being able to team up with the Alliance would have made things much more complex and give real implications. Do I go with Cerberus, because they ressucitated me, already know the collectors are a threat and will be much more considerate of the lives of those humans, or I go with the Alliance because Cerberus are [is] evil, I am Alliance, and A or B. There's no moral implication whatsoever, you just accept and do what they tell you to do, how does this have any depth?[/quote]
Your choice is made for you in ME1 and is the ultimate in simplicity.
For the record, I don't like working with Cerberus either, but it is, plot-wise, the far more interesting situation.
[quote]Or when Bioware decided to change the nature of the Genophage from "it affects fertility AND causes stillborns" to "it ONLY affects fertility.[/quote]
Uh ...
"No, human, you have not seen the piles of the children who never lived," or something to that effect. It's in the scene where Shep's confronting the Weyrlok representative.
We can get into a "does life begin at conception" debate if you want, but the fact is that fertility rate is determined by the number of living offspring. Mordin's argument that the genophage just effects fertility rates is technically correct, but largely a rationalization of his graphically displayed guilt -- another instance of high drama compared to ME1 -- that ignores a horrific consequence.
[quote]All the moral implications from trying to control a dangerous group with relatively murderous means are gone. Half the interest of the Genophage disappeared because now the goal is much more positive than the "with plenty shades of grey" there was in ME1.[/quote]
I honestly don't know how anybody who played ME1 can say that. Wrex explained at length that the genophage left survivors. The real problem was a lack of leadership among the Krogan, their unwillingness to change and lack of any unity of purpose -- things Wrex's providing in ME2 after years of trying. Those attempts even led to an attempted ambush against him by his own father. Most of Wrex's followers were killed, he was exiled and he stabbed his father to death.
I respect those who see life and conception issues as a black and white thing. It's a principled stand. But I certainly don't see how the "goal has become much more positive."
"Look at the dead woman, Mordin. It doesn't seem like you helped her."
[quote] Again, dropping the ball rather than dealing with more mature themes. Even Cerberus are censored. They are much less murderous than in ME1, and even the Subject Zero thing was because of dissidents. AGAIN cheapening the whole moral thing I spoke of earlier.[/quote]
Like it or not, terrorist groups acquire political legitimacy in out own world. Again, you're arguing that ME2 was dumbed down and that, at the same time, it's not as simple (story wise) and black-and-white as it was.
I'm thinking you're a highly principled person who is appalled at the line the story has taken. That's a legitimate cause for not wanting to play the game, but not a valid criticism of the quality of the writing.
[quote]We must not be playing the same game if you think working with Cerberus has any implications or nuances things.[/quote]
See previous points.
[quote]More than three-quarters of the complaints I've read on this forum -- and that's a very conservative estimate -- about ME2's plot "holes" come from people who haven't bothered to follow each branch of the dialogue tree to each conclusion. I've lost track of the number of posts I alone have made telling people on this forum what a Dyson Sphere is, for instance.[/quote]
[quote]1. Well, who would thought most people caring about Mass Effect would go on a the official Mass Effect forum to talk about it{smilie}[/quote]
I actually read a book before going online to trash the thing.
[quote] 2. Did you forget bits like "let's leave the Normandy for an unspecified mission/shore leave so our ship can conveniently be attacked by Collectors". Did you ever came up with a reason why they had to leave the ship?[/quote]
Now that was cheesy. Almost as cheesy as searching monkeys for a data disk or being trapped in an abandoned mine and conveniently finding a whole other way out and any one of a number of other instances I could name.
[quote]Or why the Council made Shepard go search for Geth while a clearly superior ship almost destroyed the whole Citadel space fleet and the whole place? Among others.[/quote]
That was one of the most laboriously over-explained points in the whole game.
[quote] If ME1 is good guy Shepard against bad guy Saren, then ME2 is let's build a squad of the most generic badasses of the most generic badasses and get to kick ass in a suicide mission. [/quote]
Even if that were true, a group or squad is more interesting -- on its face.
[quote]Oops, if ME1 got to deal with the Protheans, the Reapers and other things in relative detail, ME2 is pretty much the description I said save for a line or two here actually about the Reapers or something. [/quote]
If that sentence has a point, it's poorly made.
[quote]And in case you didn't realize, the ME2 description is far more detailed than the ME1 one, obviously ME1 isn't consisted of duel after duel of Saren and Shepard, but the ME2 description says 90% percent of what happens in ME2 versus the 5% of ME1.[/quote]
There's something wrong with this sentence. I don't think you meant to say that "ME2 description is far more detailed than ME1." Please clarify.
[quote]PS: I went through every conversation option possible.
[/quote]
Good.
Modifié par Thompson family, 19 février 2011 - 06:49 .
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