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[TheSpiritedLass]

Still in the process of updating the a    clothing hak for Mythos  and I have a couple questions.

1.  Lisa's hak contains "Null" body parts for things like thighs, legs and feet.  A creative fix for body part clipping issues with skirts.  I plan on doing this for all the body parts.  Do I really need to include the mdl files or would a fake line in the 2das have the same results.  Meaning fill in the 2da line as if there were hak based content to go with it but do not include the files in the hak.  Granted basically blank models are small in file size, but I'll take any reduction in hak size I can get.  *grins*

2.  Some models have only a male or female version.  While I'm trying to fill in those gaps as I can (and wow have some of the attempts been pretty darn funny looking!), not being able to do 3d work some gaps are going to remain.  I've noticed that if there is a male version of the clothing, say a torso, present but no female version, then when you look at the empty female slot in the toolset, it shows the icon for the male version.  Even though there is actually no such female looking like a male version of the icon in the hak.  Aside from loading a null placeholder icon for the female, is there a way to keep the male's icon from showing through?  Oddly enough this is not the case if there is female content but not male.  No icon shows up in that instance.

3. The Armory does not work for robes.  At least not the version I have (v1.2).  Is there a version lurking out there that can handle robes?  Or even better the translation between male and female models.  That woud solve question #2 quite nicely.

Those are all my questions at the moment.  Though I'm sure to have more.  Thanks for any insights y'all might have.

-- Mistress

[Calvinthesneak]

3. Robes won't work. What I have done in the past because they often use different supermodels is play with the animation scale in some cases. (ie lisa's fancy dresses if you set the animation scale to 0.897, they can work for an elf).



In other cases I've simply inserted the default animation (p??0), gone into NWMax, converted the robe using the tools there and made the robes for other races that well aren't quite as pretty.



2. I've never seen that behaviour. I've holes in haks, but having an icon show through would probably be good in case a female char is carrying clothing for a male char so they could find it in their inventory.



1. I'm not really sure on that, I think a null line should work.

[TheSpiritedLass]

Morning Calvin =)



3. I had a feeling the answer would be some form of 'no'. Bummer. Sounds like your hak has some additions to it? Should I be getting out my hak diving equipment again? *grins*



2. Screenie below is of a female wearing a robe that is male only. In the toolset the correct male icon 'shows through' but in game, the default male chest is displayed. In the screenie the only body part I have turned "on" is the robe itself. For males when dealing with a female only model, in the toolset, no icon shows through and in game, again the male (not female) chest shows up as an inventory icon. Quirky =)







1. A null line has worked great while putting the hak together and testing. I'm not sure how the crafting system will handle it. Ideally, any row without a model would be skipped by crafting, but I haven't got to the scripting side yet.



As always, thanks for your time TCalvin. *hugs*

[Calvinthesneak]

3. Hak diving tools? Sure. Big big robe hak



2. Hmmm I rarely bother with the toolset for much clothing work, it's got too many of it's own quirks for me to be entirely comfortable with it. Just the fact that it decides to sort parts based on AC value instead of model number annoys me. Yes I know you can make armor parts mostly line up, but still annoying.



1. The null line should work just fine as long as you have the model number listed. The game will no longer consider it a blank line and bypass once there is a model number. It will include that line, which has no resource, which is exactly what you'll see in game.

[TheSpiritedLass]

*quickie hugs* RL been driving me nuts lately. I grabed the file but haven't had a chance to look at it, Calvin. Hopefully tomorrow.

[TheSpiritedLass]

Wow Calvin, that is hands down the most complete set of cloaks in any hak I've looked at. Impressive. I've done a few icon updates to some of them if you want them.

Lisa's Paisley Cloak

The Amethyst Dragon's Cloaks

Aurus's Cloaks

Still sifting through the robes. What credit do you want listed in our 'we got these goodies from this hak' documentation? I'm sure there are some robe icon updates in the pile (which is up to 661 items - ugh!) as well.

#2 - I did go ahead and load in blank (so pure white) icons for the missing gender models. Not the solution I wanted, but I'm pretty sick of attempting to make the missing parts. It looks better in the toolset but I haven't tested it in game, yet.

[Calvinthesneak]

I'm not the creator of any of the work, so it would hardly be fair for me to claim credit for anything. I'm simply experienced with this stuff now, and that was part of my most organized and modular attempt at clothing. Only thing I ask is to see finished product at end. There is always room for improvement!

[TheSpiritedLass]

Well I gotta list someone. I'll just put Calvinthesneak, guru of clothing haks. *grins* There is a special section in the documentation for combo haks.

The finished product will be on the Vault. Though most likely not as a seperate listing (meaning it will be part of the hak package for the server) since it isn't CEP friendly so most players won't want to use it.

[TheSpiritedLass]

Hmmm your robe #116, the cloak. Does that move in game?

Tossed whatbrick's non-hooded cloaks in my pile of icons to fix. You are a bad influence again!

[Calvinthesneak]

If it's the three part cloak, yes it moves. I seem to remember some odd behaviour for males though in that one of the panels seems to have it's orientation reversed and points straight up (despite it not appearing so in Max). A few cloaks broke in 1.69, and I never could figure out what changed.

[TheSpiritedLass]

That is a different cloak. I know which one you mean though. *Hugs* I'll drop one in the toolset and check it out in game.

[TheSpiritedLass]

*drops a bunch more screenies in the gallery*

[Calvinthesneak]

The cloak is animated by the way, I went and looked to make sure.

occasionanal clip when someone stops running, but very minor, looks pretty good.

[Calvinthesneak]

By the way very impressive work there, just flipping through it. Nothing serves as well as setting up a test hak with tailoring dummies but that's close. Fantastic resource

[Jenna WSI]

By chance... did you see the weirdness happening on the er.. rump of this model? Was curious why it looked funny.
http://social.biowar...t_media_id=8514

[TheSpiritedLass]

Heya Calvin, dare I ask if the rest of your clothing hak is up on the vault? You had several cloaks and robes I hadn't seen so I'm guessing the same will hold true for the rest of the clothing. *winces at increasing my todo list*

I haven't tested any of the upgrades yet using tailoring. That is one of the final quality control things I'll do. Right after I script something to make it go faster.

I'll check the robe out as well. Thanks. *hugs*

@Jenna - Lisa's skirt model itself not the icon? No, I didn't notice any clipping. Granted I just looked at it in game long enough to make sure I had the right animation file included in the hak so the fabric actually moved.

[Calvinthesneak]

On the vault no, it is publically available though. The tailors are near instantaneous on a single player module that you host yourself. Just a matter of loading up your haks. I'll send you a link shortly for the other parts of the clothing package.

[TheSpiritedLass]

As promised in some other thread that I can't find... I finally got the Bioware Standard 1.69 visual clothing doc posted to the Vault.  I've got family coming in again tomorrow so I won't get to work on posting the actual hak bits for probably a week yet.   Getting the CCC stuff up has priority.

The hak is in decent shape.  I still need to finish up some hand models.  Zwerkules has been a HUGE help there.  The Jade in chains shins are still being naughty but Rubies is helping me with that.  Then there are a couple of robes that are misbehaving.  *waggles finger at them*  The doc for that one is basically done, minus the bits above that need to be finished.  I certainly didn't get everything done that I wanted to but I'm sick of messing with clothing and am eager to get back to scripting.

I've been pondering how to post all this stuff to the Vault.  There are *roughly* 800 things in my "done" pile.  That is a lot of content to slice into bits and post.   I think I'll do something similar to the heads plt post.  Break the content down by the original hak (versus by body part).  There are roughly 75 haks in the mix plus all the custom stuff.  However!  I'm not going to take the time to go back and renumber everything so it matches what the original hak used.   Rename 800 of those?  NO THANKS!  Chances are high that people using this stuff would have to rename the files anyways to make them place nice with their content.  I'll also post the whole clothing hak, for those that want to dig through the all of it and not have to download lots of little bits, and the visual document that goes with it.  That sound reasonable? 

[Calvinthesneak]

What exactly are you breaking on robes. Robes I can generally fix if I fiddle, always learning a bit more about that.

As for how to post all of it...

However you want. Regardless of what you do, given the limitations on 2da files, I think however you post you files is going to work. People will simply adjust. I sit and stare at CEP and Bioware content and ponder what I can replace in some cases simply because I'm reaching full 2da files for some parts. That doesn't even factor in the usable range for toolset(1-49 and 100-199).

So I say post as you like, people will probably take anything like this with a smile on their faces because you've done such a wonderful job of sorting it all.

[TheSpiritedLass]

Oh I did something wonky when adding in Lisa's fancy smancy robes. The animation file is there. I've re-loaded the mdl files from her original haks. For some reason they crash the toolset when attempting to view them. My next guess is to look at the bitmap calls and make sure I got those files. It has been super low on my todo list, but now that the todo list is small... yeah time to look into it.

Useable range for clothing? *blinks* I didn't know there was a limit at 50 to 99? For heads, sure but I didn't run into that in the toolset for clothing?

[Calvinthesneak]

Ignore me, for some reason I thought much like heads only certain clothing parts would show up in the toolset.

Which of Lisa's robes are you referring to exactly? What might be an issue sometimes is supermodels calling supermodels (sometimes you need to look at the heirarchy).

If you're referring to robes that use a_fa_skirt supermodel, it doesn't translate across to phenotypes other than human and elf (they use similar animations). The other races have alternate animations and it might cause you an issue if you converted the robes for them without changing the referenced supermodel in those models.

Pictures are worth a thousand words in this case, I can probably help you narrow the problem once I know what I need to look at.

[TheSpiritedLass]

I did pull the extra versions of the robes I found in other haks. Then I reloaded the robe mdl files and that fa_skirt animation file from Lisa's original haks. The 3 robes are the dragon lady, ninja and ... tika's (thin long skirt thing). For the next week that issue is on the back burner.

[Calvinthesneak]

Hmmm are you talking about this skirt?

[TheSpiritedLass]

Yup, that looks like one of them. 
Front view:


And these two:
Dragon lady


Ninja


It is probably something silly I did wrong and most likely I won't have time to look at it again until next week sometime. =(

[Calvinthesneak]

Definately seems odd that those would refuse to work for you suddenly. I certainly have working copies at the moment of all of those.

The later 2 robes by Lisa, by adjusting the animation scale, made work for elves, but for the other races, I substitued out the fancy animation with a default one, so they don't look as nice for half-orc, gnome, halfling and dwarf.