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[Fiery Phoenix]

As per the BioWare doctors from a recent interview, ME3 will "focus on Shepard." While I do not take that for granted given the nature of said interview, it is at least something.

Hopefully the Dr. Phil Syndrome is no more as of ME3.

[Good Cat]

The biggest problem with ME 2? It was CASUAL'IHILATION, CASUA'POCALYPSE, CASUA'LOCAUST, CASUAL'MAGEDDON, CASU'TASTROPHE!

Plot saved this game, it was plots finger, pray to the plot!


I just hate game casualisation...

Modifié par Good Cat, 19 février 2011 - 06:20 .

[Iakus]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Mash Mashington wrote...

Seriously, for the most part of ME2 Shepard was just a colorless plot device. No bueno

Not going to disagree. But it was the same in ME1 so I'm not really seeing why anyone expected it to be any different..

It's because in ME 1, the focus was on the plotline, the whole "gotta catch Saren! and stop the Reapers" thing.  Yeah the weakness was still there, but it wasn't so glaring.

In ME 2, the story is about building the team.  We meet and recruit all these characters and do missions with them all over the galaxy.  A larger part of the story is, in fact character development.  We see the squadmates really come alive and react to their situations (well, for the limited time we're doing their missions, anyway) but Shepard just remains the same.  Nothing touches him/her. 

The weakness of the smaller, personal journeys is you don't have a GALAXY DESTROYING CRISIS! to mask the lack of personlity behind.

[Iakus]

BobSmith101 wrote...

ratzerman wrote...
It's not the reactions of others that bother me. It's Shepard. She just sorta accepts the fact that she's been brought back from the dead. The psychological, emotional, and religious implications of that are HUGE. But she shrugs it off like it's nothing.

"Yeah, I died.... but now I'm alive.... so, you know.... whatevs."
:blink:

I think that he shares whatever reaction you have. Although it could have been something to talk to Kelly about she is supposed to be the ships counsellor

Yeah, would have given Kelly somethign to do.

Or conversation options with:

Miranda:  who was the head of the project

Mordin:  The superscientist whom one would think would be extremely interested in a process to revive the dead

Thane:  with his religious/philosophical viewpoints on life and death

Garrus: Tali, Joker, Chakwas: who were all Shepard's friends and crew before his death.  Heck, Joker was there!

Anderson:  who's "door is always open" for Shepard

So many possible avenues to go down.  If only they were available.

[Sentox6]

This is part of the reason some people prefer FemShep. Shepard is more or less a shell completely lacking introspection either way, but Hale does project more emotion, which helps cover it up a little bit.

It's not just the team-building focus that shows this up more, either. ME2 defined worked harder to frame Shepard more like Master Chief. Shepard is treated less like an exceptional soldier who's accomplished great things and more like the Extreme Galactic Ass-kicker. Minor facts like getting exposed to a hard vacuum, performing atmospheric re-entry without all that unnecessary gear (like a spaceship), and being resurrected aren't really important. Let's face it, if Shepard were anything less, Cerberus would be making a pretty poor use of their four billion credits.

Being railroaded is just the icing on the cake, especially if you're paragon.

[Luke Skywalker mode] I'll never join you!
*spends entire game working for Cerberus*
Screw working with you, I'm blowing up this base!

What?

Oh yeah, and screw Joker. I mean sure, I get people killed because of my own stubborness on a daily basis, but at least I apologise.

Modifié par Sentox6, 19 février 2011 - 07:24 .

[AkiKishi]

iakus wrote...

Yeah, would have given Kelly somethign to do.

Or conversation options with:

Miranda:  who was the head of the project

Mordin:  The superscientist whom one would think would be extremely interested in a process to revive the dead

Thane:  with his religious/philosophical viewpoints on life and death

Garrus: Tali, Joker, Chakwas: who were all Shepard's friends and crew before his death.  Heck, Joker was there!

Anderson:  who's "door is always open" for Shepard

So many possible avenues to go down.  If only they were available.

Besides feeding fish anyway. 

The problem I would see as writer is once you have your little introspections how do you carry that into the wider game? Especially as they would likely be variable outcomes. And if you handle it as plot , then you remove another element of choice from the players control.
That being the case that would make it even more obvious than it already is.Much like how your companions only come alive on their loyalty missions. The reason of course less to do with writing and more to do with knowing who will be there at a fixed point. And not having to record 12* dialogue.

iakus wrote...

The weakness of the smaller, personal journeys is you don't have a GALAXY DESTROYING CRISIS! to mask the lack of personlity behind.

I noticed it from the start and I'm familiar with the postives and negatives of the design. Probably why It never really bothered me much.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 19 février 2011 - 07:29 .

[Nightwriter]

I do not need my character to develop, OP. I just need my character to react. Development is just a plus.

ME1 players felt a plethora of emotions that they were simply never allowed to express through their Shepards:

Confusion
Anger
Frustration
Perplexity
Alarm
Hostility
Abandonment
Disorientation
"Why the hell am I doing this??"

And no, ME1 did not do such a comparatively more awesome job of focusing on Shepard, but nowhere in ME1 did we feel so many strong emotions that we were not allowed to express, either.

[Sajuro]

HILLOFHEROES wrote...

 Cmdr. Shepard is a complete brick has no major character development in mass effect 2

There's a wonderful thing people like to call

imagination. It existed before video games and tv where people didn't have to have everything explained to them.

[Fiery Phoenix]

"He's literally a flat brick with a lip-synced Paul Ekman head." -Smudboy

/sarcasm

[AkiKishi]

Nightwriter wrote...

I do not need my character to develop, OP. I just need my character to react. Development is just a plus.

ME1 players felt a plethora of emotions that they were simply never allowed to express through their Shepards:

Confusion
Anger
Frustration
Perplexity
Alarm
Hostility
Abandonment
Disorientation
"Why the hell am I doing this??"

And no, ME1 did not do such a comparatively more awesome job of focusing on Shepard, but nowhere in ME1 did we feel so many strong emotions that we were not allowed to express, either.

I'm going to guess there was an ME2 supposed to go in there somewhere.

The problem is you see people are seeing Shepard as too much their own. When in reality he is not. He's a pre-generated character that you can choose the "Hero" or "Ass" path for, or the "none of the above".

That is the extent of your input.

[Sentox6]

Sajuro wrote...

There's a wonderful thing people like to call imagination. It existed before video games and tv where people didn't have to have everything explained to them.

Well, you go have fun with that and we'll keep discussing possible ways to improve said video games.

[Sajuro]

Sentox6 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

There's a wonderful thing people like to call imagination. It existed before video games and tv where people didn't have to have everything explained to them.

Well, you go have fun with that and we'll keep discussing possible ways to improve said video games.

it's called roleplaying you can have final fantasy 8 if you want emotional developement handed to you.

[Nightwriter]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I'm going to guess there was an ME2 supposed to go in there somewhere.

Not sure what this means.

BobSmith101 wrote...

The problem is you see people are seeing Shepard as too much their own. When in reality he is not. He's a pre-generated character that you can choose the "Hero" or "Ass" path for, or the "none of the above".

That is the extent of your input.

Ah, well, you know how it is. A girl says, "Why doesn't Shepard react like a person instead of a mannequin?"

And someone's gotta say, "Sorry babe, BioWare intended Shepard to be a mannequin and you can't control that, deal with it."

And then LotSB comes out, and BioWare says, "Oh, crap, we made our character react like a mannequin, how awful! Let's fix that by giving them some opportunity to express themselves in this DLC. We love our fans!"

[AkiKishi]

Nightwriter wrote...

Not sure what this means.

Ah, well, you know how it is. A girl says, "Why doesn't Shepard react like a person instead of a mannequin?"

And someone's gotta say, "Sorry babe, BioWare intended Shepard to be a mannequin and you can't control that, deal with it."

And then LotSB comes out, and BioWare says, "Oh, crap, we made our character react like a mannequin, how awful! Let's fix that by giving them some opportunity to express themselves in this DLC. We love our fans!"

You typed ME1 twice, just looked like meant in ME2. I may be mistaken.

That's great as far as LotSB goes, but does it continue beyond that ? It does not. so LotSB just makes it even more glaringly obvious that Shepard is a brick.

At best LotSB gives you a bit of a way to vent, but nothing more.

[Sentox6]

Sajuro wrote...
it's called roleplaying you can have final fantasy 8 if you want emotional developement handed to you.

You seem to have a real superiority complex going on.

I have no interest in linear, prescribed character developed, ala the JRPG model. I just want the option, in dialogue, for Shepard to reflect on events and express his/her personal feelings more, rather than only reacting to other characters and the immediate situation.

[AkiKishi]

Sentox6 wrote...

I have no interest in linear, prescribed character developed, ala the JRPG model. I just want the option, in dialogue, for Shepard to reflect on events and express his/her personal feelings more, rather than only reacting to other characters and the immediate situation.

That would require a redesign of the dialogue wheel. Thats the only way you could make it consistant without having to deal with even more varibles. Even then you have the additional cost of a LOT of extra lines.

You could call it the price for not following the JRPG model. Something like the intro of FFX (repeated later in the game when you realise just what the meaning is) would be nice though. Especially prior to the "last mission". The romance is fine for what it is, but something with the whole crew would be better. Even more if your words had some gameplay effects.

[Sajuro]

Sentox6 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
it's called roleplaying you can have final fantasy 8 if you want emotional developement handed to you.

You seem to have a real superiority complex going on.

I have no interest in linear, prescribed character developed, ala the JRPG model. I just want the option, in dialogue, for Shepard to reflect on events and express his/her personal feelings more, rather than only reacting to other characters and the immediate situation.

Sorry, it came out wrong. I am for people asking Shepard how they are holding up for a change (Like liara) I just believe that a lot of Shepard's developement is internal and can be externalized through the right choices. My shep going through ME1 right now started out trusting the Alliance, thinking they had the best in mind but is slowly getting fed up with them which shows in her responses to Hackette. Maybe if they had some optional moments for Shepard to sit down, but I can't blame bioware for not doing that because people will probably start complaining about 'how shepard is angsting when there is the Reaper threat' if the responses to the lair of the shadow broker were any indication, people complained because shepard acted friendly towards Liara and joked with her when the Shepard who did take up that mission would probably do it because they wanted to help Liara.

[Sesshomaru47]

Sajuro wrote...

HILLOFHEROES wrote...

 Cmdr. Shepard is a complete brick has no major character development in mass effect 2

There's a wonderful thing people like to call

imagination. It existed before video games and tv where people didn't have to have everything explained to them.

All you need is a carbaord box...ah Sponge Bob.

Not being able to go into more detail about the whole resurrection thing was annoying and also for the Akuze Shepard not being able vent at Miranda of the TIM was irritating

[Null_]

You got quite a few dialogue options to flame Miranda(mostly renegade... BUT WORTH IT) and Illusive man..



"You still dont get it. I am in charge of this mission. Not you" Right in the begining when you enter SR-2. Was brilliant.

[Abispa]

It wasn't just frustration and anger that Shepard was finally allowed to display in LotSB, but a sense of humor as well. The backseat driving of Liara, "You're enjoying this, aren't you!?" brought it out and fit well whether you were a paragon or renegade. Not to mention disappointment Shepard feels about being ignored after falling out of a building. Liara probably heard about Shepard being a dick on Horizon and wanted to spare Shepard another lousy scene with cheesy dialogue, "I just fell out of a building! Why don't you come with me? Just like old times, huh?"

[Sentox6]

Null_ wrote...

"You still dont get it. I am in charge of this mission. Not you" Right in the begining when you enter SR-2. Was brilliant.

Brilliant? I feel stupid even using that dialogue line. You're on a Cerberus ship, with Cerberus personal, using Cerberus resources, and heading off to do what Cerberus told you to do.

But you're in charge!


Anyway, I just would like a bit more interaction along the lines of LotSB, as Abispa pointed out.

Modifié par Sentox6, 19 février 2011 - 08:51 .

[Null_]

My Sole survivor shepard that did all ME1 sidemissions disagrees with you.

[Yeti13]

I want commander Shepard to be a mystery, because he/she is me, his/her actions are my actions, I shape their personality and history, I don't BW to tell me what my character is, and they don't

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

Not enough cowbell.

[Abispa]

@ HappyHappyJoyJoy -- Maybe the cowbell will be in the ME3 collector's edition. Then we can all play with gold-plated diapers on.