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[implodinggoat]

HILLOFHEROES wrote...

 Cmdr. Shepard is a complete brick has no major character development in mass effect 2

If anything Shepard has character regression.

In ME1 Shepard was very assertive and anti authoritarian; but in ME2 he/she lets Cerberus use him/her like a puppet even though there is way more reason to resent and distrust Ceberus than there is the Council or Alliance.  Through the whole storyline Shepard just rolls with it, never rebelling, never doubting just accepting everything at face value and letting himself/herself be lead around.

One thing that irritated me in particular is that the game never even touched on Shepard having any doubts or questions about his/her own identity.

I mean you've just found out that you were killed 2 years ago and the only assurance you have that you are indeed the real Commander Shepard come from the shadowy terrorist organization which claims to have spent a fortune to bring you back to life just the way you were solely because you were such a badass.  Aren't you going to wonder if you're really the geniune article or if you're just some Cerberus puppet?

Even worse no one else seems to react with any doubt about you being the real Shepard.  I mean wouldn't it have made a hell of a lot more sense if Ashley/Kaiden and Liara refused to join up with you on the grounds that they saw you die and believe that what's standing before them is just some abomination whipped up in a Cerberus lab?

[Sentox6]

DarthSliver wrote...

In the bold, that maybe their problem. They are looking into it way too deep and much unnatural too. I stand to say that its a game meant for our enjoyment, quite the reason why i havent beaten DAO too much.

Some of us are just more prone to deconstructing anything we spend time with. I do it with any game, TV series, movie; any hobby, for that matter. Analysing and studying something I enjoy is, in itself, enjoyable; it's the opposite of unnatural, it's how I'm wired.

So yes, I will happily level a number of criticisms at ME2. The main plot is poorly written, combat is formulaic, the traditional RPG elements have been pared back too aggressively, and so forth. I have also played the game through to completion numerous times. Why? Because on balance, I enjoy it. There is no law stating I can't enjoy something if it is flawed; fortunately, too, because nothing is perfect. With the gaming medium, there is often a clear means of communication and a high potential for improvement, so I tend to be more vocal about my opinions.

Not everyone who complains is a permanently discontented whiner, anymore than someone completely satisfied with the game is shallow and easily pleased. Unfortunately, most people seem to be possessed by a very strong desire to feel right, and insults and judgments are easily levelled in an environment of anonymity.

Modifié par Sentox6, 20 février 2011 - 09:47 .

[AkiKishi]

implodinggoat wrote...

If anything Shepard has character regression.

In ME1 Shepard was very assertive and anti authoritarian; but in ME2 he/she lets Cerberus use him/her like a puppet even though there is way more reason to resent and distrust Ceberus than there is the Council or Alliance.  Through the whole storyline Shepard just rolls with it, never rebelling, never doubting just accepting everything at face value and letting himself/herself be lead around.

One thing that irritated me in particular is that the game never even touched on Shepard having any doubts or questions about his/her own identity.

I mean you've just found out that you were killed 2 years ago and the only assurance you have that you are indeed the real Commander Shepard come from the shadowy terrorist organization which claims to have spent a fortune to bring you back to life just the way you were solely because you were such a badass.  Aren't you going to wonder if you're really the geniune article or if you're just some Cerberus puppet?

Even worse no one else seems to react with any doubt about you being the real Shepard.  I mean wouldn't it have made a hell of a lot more sense if Ashley/Kaiden and Liara refused to join up with you on the grounds that they saw you die and believe that what's standing before them is just some abomination whipped up in a Cerberus lab?

That was always going to be the case once they set Cerberus up as the "protagonist". Even if you could argue it would do no good because there is no alternative way to drive the plot along, even though it would have been fairly easy to allow you to have Anderson as an alternate to TIM because of the episodic level structure.
But as I said on many occasions until I know how close they were to filling disc 2, not going to be overly critical because I found it a huge "upgrade" over ME1' generic filler.

From the Aria/Citadel scenes it seems clear there is some method of verifying who you are. Once you get to Horizon you have been around long enough for word to get out.

[GodWood]

implodinggoat wrote...
If anything Shepard has character regression.

In ME1 Shepard was very assertive and anti authoritarian

Not my Shepard.

[JediNg]

GodWood wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...
If anything Shepard has character regression.

In ME1 Shepard was very assertive and anti authoritarian

Not my Shepard.

Lol, I haven't made renegade Shepard(s) yet either.

[AkiKishi]

JediNg wrote...

GodWood wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...
If anything Shepard has character regression.

In ME1 Shepard was very assertive and anti authoritarian

Not my Shepard.

Lol, I haven't made renegade Shepard(s) yet either.

Even if you do it makes no difference. You still follow the councils orders , you just complain about it. Like how you have no choice in following TIMS orders but you can make some pointless complaints.

It's only when the story allows it that you get to break. Like in the escape from the Citadel in ME1 or giving TIM the finger and blowing up the base in ME2. 

[JediNg]

BobSmith101 wrote...

JediNg wrote...

GodWood wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...
If anything Shepard has character regression.

In ME1 Shepard was very assertive and anti authoritarian

Not my Shepard.

Lol, I haven't made renegade Shepard(s) yet either.

Even if you do it makes no difference. You still follow the councils orders , you just complain about it. Like how you have no choice in following TIMS orders but you can make some pointless complaints.

It's only when the story allows it that you get to break. Like in the escape from the Citadel in ME1 or giving TIM the finger and blowing up the base in ME2. 

Okay.

[LordJeyl]

My big gripe on ME2 is how the Illusive Man (TIM) was handled. He played out like a convenient plot device that magically said "go there" whenever the next stage of the story was to take place. Nothing ever develops in this story as far as Shepard is concerned, it just happens. Shepard doesn't try to figure things out on his/her own, it's always TIM being the one who progresses the story forward. Shepard pretty much doesn't do anything until the very end of the game that matters. I would have liked it if Shepard took more action rather than waiting on TIM's next instructions.

[AkiKishi]

LordJeyl wrote...

My big gripe on ME2 is how the Illusive Man (TIM) was handled. He played out like a convenient plot device that magically said "go there" whenever the next stage of the story was to take place. Nothing ever develops in this story as far as Shepard is concerned, it just happens. Shepard doesn't try to figure things out on his/her own, it's always TIM being the one who progresses the story forward. Shepard pretty much doesn't do anything until the very end of the game that matters. I would have liked it if Shepard took more action rather than waiting on TIM's next instructions.

I wonder if that is because they are now book characters and it limits just what roles they can play in the game.
Ideally I wanted to find TIM and stick a few rounds in him. But if they have plands for the character for future books, that's never going to happen.

[Elite Midget]

Biggest Problem?



Making the ME2 Squaddies killable. Now they have to replace them and anger a bunch of ME2 Fans.

[DarthSliver]

Sentox6 wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

In the bold, that maybe their problem. They are looking into it way too deep and much unnatural too. I stand to say that its a game meant for our enjoyment, quite the reason why i havent beaten DAO too much.

Some of us are just more prone to deconstructing anything we spend time with. I do it with any game, TV series, movie; any hobby, for that matter. Analysing and studying something I enjoy is, in itself, enjoyable; it's the opposite of unnatural, it's how I'm wired.

So yes, I will happily level a number of criticisms at ME2. The main plot is poorly written, combat is formulaic, the traditional RPG elements have been pared back too aggressively, and so forth. I have also played the game through to completion numerous times. Why? Because on balance, I enjoy it. There is no law stating I can't enjoy something if it is flawed; fortunately, too, because nothing is perfect. With the gaming medium, there is often a clear means of communication and a high potential for improvement, so I tend to be more vocal about my opinions.

Not everyone who complains is a permanently discontented whiner, anymore than someone completely satisfied with the game is shallow and easily pleased. Unfortunately, most people seem to be possessed by a very strong desire to feel right, and insults and judgments are easily levelled in an environment of anonymity.

Well i will say your thread was the only one i liked out of all the Mass Effect 2 problem threads. Was the only one that used logic from the start. This thread didnt even have that until you came into the thread. Because I do admit there are flaws with ME2. 
1. The way the beginning happen. Everyone knows that was just a plot device to reset your character. There is no technolgy that could bring someone back to life without having bad side effects. Look at Star Trek, they are able to do it but it has to be within a short timeframe of the death and it depends how the person died too. But yeah they could have come up with another method to reset us that made more sense never the less. But I will say i wont mine the setup if ME3 pulls through and shows the Reapers can some how easily indocernate(SP?) Shepard or something to that effect since he/she is partly cybernatic now thanks to Cerberus. 

2. Making party members killable at the end, like someone pointed out recently.

But point is too is Mass Effect 2 does have its flaws but we dont need a million threads stating it either.

[Nightwriter]

Elite Midget wrote...

Biggest Problem?

Making the ME2 Squaddies killable. Now they have to replace them--

No! Lies!

La la la la la la! Not hearing! Lies! La la la la la la!

[Abispa]

You don't need a squad any more! ME3 is going to be nothing but cameos, canned space battles and bad-ass single player Doom-style carnage! Heck, s/he's going to be over Level 30, for crying out loud! One falcon punch should put out a Reaper!

[sumof all fear]

HILLOFHEROES wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Add that he/she is a complete ******.

in many situations it is very much like that

like at the collector base...

Shep: "if we can't use stealth, then we blast our way through.  a few well placed explosives should clear a path."
EDI:"there is insufficent ordinance abord."

Me: "WHAT!?! We came all this way... and we didn't bring any ****ing giant bombs?!"

[Abispa]

That's why ME2 needed Kaiden or Ashley on the team. Their Normandy UPGRADES would have been an impressive big ass bomb. I'm sure your engineers would have been impressed and made some colorful comments.

[Abispa]

@ sumof all fear -- Good Lord, the more I think about it, the more I realize how right you are! Dammit! When they jumped through the Omega IV relay, they thought it was possible that they would have to take out the Collector's HOMEWORLD! A WHOLE PLANET! They expected to take out an entire planet with a handful of mercenaries, a couple of biotics, engineers and guns!?

Modifié par Abispa, 21 février 2011 - 12:39 .

[Lapis Lazuli]

Abispa wrote...

@ sumof all fear -- Good Lord, the more I think about it, the more I realize how right you are! Dammit! When they jumped through the Omega IV relay, they thought it was possible that they would have to take out the Collector's HOMEWORLD! A WHOLE PLANET! They expected to take out an entire planet with a handful of mercenaries, a couple of biotics, engineers and guns!?

...yes, and you're problem is?

[Abispa]

@ Lapis Lazuli -- The problem is that you'd have to have the EXP cap at at least level 50 for that to be even REMOTELY believable, unless you're playing on CASUAL.

[Sajuro]

Abispa wrote...

@ Lapis Lazuli -- The problem is that you'd have to have the EXP cap at at least level 50 for that to be even REMOTELY believable, unless you're playing on CASUAL.

it's all good, I'm sure the collectors would have had enough thermal clips laying on the ground for Shepard and company.

[DarthSliver]

Sajuro wrote...

Abispa wrote...

@ Lapis Lazuli -- The problem is that you'd have to have the EXP cap at at least level 50 for that to be even REMOTELY believable, unless you're playing on CASUAL.

it's all good, I'm sure the collectors would have had enough thermal clips laying on the ground for Shepard and company.

Actually only Shepard, the team switch clips only in cutscenes/loading screen.

[Lapis Lazuli]

DarthSliver wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Abispa wrote...

@ Lapis Lazuli -- The problem is that you'd have to have the EXP cap at at least level 50 for that to be even REMOTELY believable, unless you're playing on CASUAL.

it's all good, I'm sure the collectors would have had enough thermal clips laying on the ground for Shepard and company.

Actually only Shepard, the team switch clips only in cutscenes/loading screen.

... and all the collectors will position themselves next to canisters with tactical nukes inside them...