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[Selene Moonsong]

If I am not mistaken, in DAO, under the right conditions, your Wardenr can free the Circle from the yoke of the Chantry in Ferelden, and I don't recall any signs of anarchy there.

[drahelvete]

Reaverwind wrote...

Anders on a leash.

Oh, no! How would he do what he does best: run away?
I can't believe the templars never tried that...

[upsettingshorts]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

If I am not mistaken, in DAO, under the right conditions, your Wardenr can free the Circle from the yoke of the Chantry in Ferelden, and I don't recall any signs of anarchy there.

I thought DG described the fallout from that ending as:

King/Queen of Ferelden to Chantry: "Free the mages."
Chantry: "Nah.

But that wouldn't be the end of the issue.  It does mean though that there aren't any signs of anything because nothings actually been done yet.

[drahelvete]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

If I am not mistaken, in DAO, under the right conditions, your Wardenr can free the Circle from the yoke of the Chantry in Ferelden, and I don't recall any signs of anarchy there.

The Chantry denied that boon, IIRC.

Edit: 'd

Modifié par drahelvete, 19 février 2011 - 03:06 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Riona45 wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...
The major plot device is just HOW it will go. Will it burn down in flames or will the templars actually peacefully succumb and realize the Maker is a bunch of hogwash?

Well, there are other options besides that.  Perhaps the Chantry could be reformed rather than destroyed altogether (and, preferably, be less hegemonic).

Perhaps.

Cassandra and Varric's bit about how the World is at the Brink of War gives me the impression that the Chantry's hold on Kirkwall has crumbled, and other countries are looking at that revolution as an example and quickly taking suit.

The Chantry does FAR MORE than just hide away mages in towers. They are a police government that exists on the backs of corruption and bigotry. They believe all non-humans require saving (making Elves, Dwarves, and Qunari second class citizens in the eyes of the church), they're exalted marches have all but scattered the Dalish, and we already know how they treat mages.

I could be wrong, but I get the sense that revolution is in the air, and Hawke is going to be the icon of it in Kirkwall, hence why s/he's the only one who can put the world back together.

EDIT And as for player choice, I really don't think that saving the Chantry is going to be viable. You will squash it or reform it, but it won't exist as it currently stands. Hawke came from a family of mages, and either you or Bethany will be a Mage. Either you reach a decision to protect your family or protect yourself. I'm under the impression keeping one mage in the family was very intentional for DA2's gameplot.

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 19 février 2011 - 03:10 .

[Riona45]

It's looking more and more like DA2 will let the PC do more for mages (and probably certain other disenfranchised people) than make a plea to the monarch of one small and not especially powerful country.

[Elite Midget]

Sometines to overthrow oppression you must be willing to make sacrifices for the greater good.

[Beren082]

They will all feel the love of the flying spaghetti monster.



Ramen!

[Riona45]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

The Chantry does FAR MORE than just hide away mages in towers.

Oh, you don't have to tell ME this.  I am very much aware of the fact that the Chantry is an institution of invasive culture hegemony and I've discussed on this forum more than once.  However, I try to keep in mind that the Chantry--the correct political entity--was just one version of the religion about Andraste and the Maker (the one an Orlesian emperor decided was correct) and that it's probably possible to have a less authoritarian version of it.

Modifié par Riona45, 19 février 2011 - 03:12 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Riona45 wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

The Chantry does FAR MORE than just hide away mages in towers.

Oh, you don't have to tell ME this.  I am very much aware of the fact that the Chantry is an institution of invasive culture hegemony and I've mentioned that on this forum more than once.  However, I try to keep in mind that the Chantry--the correct political entity--was just one version of the religion about Andraste and the Maker (the one an Orlesian emperor decided was correct) and that it's probably possible to have a less authoritarian version of it.

What I'm suggesting is that mages aren't the only ones unhappy with the chantry. Families who lost their children to the circle, Templars who watched their brothers go lyrium crazy, Dwarves in Orzammar who feel their culture is being penetrated by Chantry teachings, Dalish with no lands to go on, Elfen Alienages... List goes on.

A lot of people are angry.

[Riona45]

HolyJellyfish wrote...
What I'm suggesting is that mages aren't the only ones unhappy with the chantry.

And I told you I KNOW this.  You're preaching to the choir.

[Grumpy young man]

Inform yourself about religious and social upheavals that came to be after appearance Martin Luther ( and I don't mean the black one ). That context clarifies what would post - Chantry Thedas had before itself in the future.

[Elite Midget]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

If I am not mistaken, in DAO, under the right conditions, your Wardenr can free the Circle from the yoke of the Chantry in Ferelden, and I don't recall any signs of anarchy there.

I thought DG described the fallout from that ending as:

King/Queen of Ferelden to Chantry: "Free the mages."
Chantry: "Nah.

But that wouldn't be the end of the issue.  It does mean though that there aren't any signs of anything because nothings actually been done yet.

Which explains one of the reasons why a High Ranking Fereldan Knight would be in Kirkwall.

[dgcatanisiri]

Removing the Chantry entirely, I think, would be swapping one problem for another. The Chantry's problem is that it is strict to the point of shackling mages, making them ashamed of who they are or becoming exactly what the Chantry expects of them because that's what they're told they'll wind up being. I'm sure that many of the blood mages and maleficarum wouldn't turn to those if the didn't have the prison sentence of the Circle or the effective-death sentence of being made tranquil hanging over their heads. But remove the Chantry oversight and mages like Uldred would be able to run wild without restraint. Some balance needs to be achieved, but what that would be... honestly, I don't know.

[Elite Midget]

They are put on a leash and all its done is cause trouble.



Remember Uldred? As soon as he was promised by Loghain that the Mages would be freed if he sided with the new Ruling power he tried to convince them Mages to rebel. When the Top Enchanter said no he became desperate and turned to Blood Magic to try and sway the Mages only he was devoured by the demon he made a pact with in the end.

[drahelvete]

Elite Midget wrote...

They are put on a leash and all its done is cause trouble.

Remember Uldred? As soon as he was promised by Loghain that the Mages would be freed if he sided with the new Ruling power he tried to convince them Mages to rebel. When the Top Enchanter said no he became desperate and turned to Blood Magic to try and sway the Mages only he was devoured by the demon he made a pact with in the end.

And that is why the qunari cut out the tongues of troublesome mages...

[Reaverwind]

Elite Midget wrote...

They are put on a leash and all its done is cause trouble.

Remember Uldred? As soon as he was promised by Loghain that the Mages would be freed if he sided with the new Ruling power he tried to convince them Mages to rebel. When the Top Enchanter said no he became desperate and turned to Blood Magic to try and sway the Mages only he was devoured by the demon he made a pact with in the end.

The Chantry never put them on leashes. The Qunari don't have problems with their mages.

[Dante Angelo]

I think the qunari and the chantry are eventually going to fight each other until they can no longer fight which will eventually allow a new religion to begin to flourish while the chantry and the qunari are driven into small cults. This new religion will be created by none other than the prophet Sandel and their name shall be the Enchantians

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

I hope there are no half ass Chantry reform options, Choices should be hard. They shouldn't go like this

Option1:Kill all religous fellows who fear for their lives from a Genetic heritage of Human beings who can cause nukes to come out their fingers and control your mind if they wish to do so.

Option 2:Comit Genocide or lock up all human beings born diffrent in a tower despite commiting no crime.

Option 3:Reform chantry to be fair,despite them hating mages. Everyone happy.

[Albatroz]

Despite what anti-Chantry thinkers would believe, the complete removal of the institution from the political system of Thedas would have disastrous effects throughout the setting. Now would the world eventually recover from this like the real world has done after the fall of mighty empires? Probably, but then again the real world doesn't have to worry about magic.

[marshalleck]

XxDeonxX wrote...

2) Remove the Chantry - Mass riots and homocides across Thedas, Total war from all sides. Nearly every country participating and even the Qunari who want to take advantage of the chaos. The death toll would be somewhere between several hundred thousand to a million... probably more

Sounds like a good time. And mages don't even need molotovs to lob fire at the state goons. 

[Dante Angelo]

The RustMonster wrote...

Despite what anti-Chantry thinkers would believe, the complete removal of the institution from the political system of Thedas would have disastrous effects throughout the setting. Now would the world eventually recover from this like the real world has done after the fall of mighty empires? Probably, but then again the real world doesn't have to worry about magic.

you're right all we have to worry about are nukes and Hallucinogens which make you think you have the power of magic