131 réponses à ce sujet

[Eveangaline]

The RustMonster wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Results of removal:Peace and hugs.

Of course. Just after the mass hysteria from having a powerful political system being rapidly and forcibly removed from the carefully built political balance.

Nope. Just hugs. Everyone likes hugs. Except people who don't like touching others and people who like their personal space.

[Dante Angelo]

Eveangaline wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Results of removal:Peace and hugs.

Of course. Just after the mass hysteria from having a powerful political system being rapidly and forcibly removed from the carefully built political balance.

Nope. Just hugs. Everyone likes hugs. Except people who don't like touching others and people who like their personal space.

like Fenris

[Vit246]

I don't think removing the rather oppressive Chantry power and oversight on the Circles of Magi would lead to those "results".

[Haverrun]

I think mass hysteria is an exaggeration. But I did hear Varric say "your precious chantry is falling to pieces and put the entire world on the brink of war" I would say that weakening the Chantry's power brings about a conflict, but if you want change, it won't come about by peaceful methods. The corruption in the Chantry would prevent any lasting change coming from diplomacy.

[Eveangaline]

Dante Angelo wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Results of removal:Peace and hugs.

Of course. Just after the mass hysteria from having a powerful political system being rapidly and forcibly removed from the carefully built political balance.

Nope. Just hugs. Everyone likes hugs. Except people who don't like touching others and people who like their personal space.

like Fenris

Which means he will be the first up against the wall.

[Legbiter]

The Chantry was not built solely to police magelings. All that's just a fairly minor sideshow. The teachings of Andraste form the backbone of civilization in all of Thedas.



Take away the current Chantry-based civilization in Thedas and you replace it with either the Qun as the new civilizing influence or total anarchy while a new civ establishes itself.

[Haverrun]

Legbiter wrote...

The Chantry was not built solely to police magelings. All that's just a fairly minor sideshow. The teachings of Andraste form the backbone of civilization in all of Thedas.

Take away the current Chantry-based civilization in Thedas and you replace it with either the Qun as the new civilizing influence or total anarchy while a new civ establishes itself.

The Chant of Light itself does not say anything about imprisoning mages other than condemning a mage who abuses his or her power. Getting rid of the Chantry does not necessarily getting rid of the teachings of Andraste. The Chantry simply acts on their interpretation of it. I'm pretty sure a person can believe in the Chant of Light and not see eye to eye with the Chantry.

[megaz635]

Oh please the second option would not happen.



No body will go crazy being converted to atheism or another religion.



It WILL take time to adjust but still.

[Riona45]

Legbiter wrote...

The Chantry was not built solely to police magelings. All that's just a fairly minor sideshow. The teachings of Andraste form the backbone of civilization in all of Thedas.

Except where it doesn't--and I'm not only talking about the Qun.

[Legbiter]

Haverrun wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

The Chantry was not built solely to police magelings. All that's just a fairly minor sideshow. The teachings of Andraste form the backbone of civilization in all of Thedas.

Take away the current Chantry-based civilization in Thedas and you replace it with either the Qun as the new civilizing influence or total anarchy while a new civ establishes itself.

The Chant of Light itself does not say anything about imprisoning mages other than condemning a mage who abuses his or her power. Getting rid of the Chantry does not necessarily getting rid of the teachings of Andraste. The Chantry simply acts on their interpretation of it. I'm pretty sure a person can believe in the Chant of Light and not see eye to eye with the Chantry.

Tell it to the rampaging abomination lady.

[Eveangaline]

Legbiter wrote...

The Chantry was not built solely to police magelings. All that's just a fairly minor sideshow. The teachings of Andraste form the backbone of civilization in all of Thedas.

Take away the current Chantry-based civilization in Thedas and you replace it with either the Qun as the new civilizing influence or total anarchy while a new civ establishes itself.

But the chantry doesn't run the kingdoms, the kings, queens, banorn, and nobles do. Even if the chantry falls apart, they'll still have government set up.

[Haverrun]

I'm not sure what the Baroness has to do with whether people would convert to the Qun or some other religion without the Chantry.

[Albatroz]

Eveangaline wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

The Chantry was not built solely to police magelings. All that's just a fairly minor sideshow. The teachings of Andraste form the backbone of civilization in all of Thedas.

Take away the current Chantry-based civilization in Thedas and you replace it with either the Qun as the new civilizing influence or total anarchy while a new civ establishes itself.

But the chantry doesn't run the kingdoms, the kings, queens, banorn, and nobles do. Even if the chantry falls apart, they'll still have government set up.

The Catholic Church doesn't have any political power, but you can bet there would be a major crapstorm if suddenly was removed from power.

[rabidhanar]

World Peace....Followed by the largest Double Rainbow ever seen across the entire planet from north to south pole!



Then abominations, arcane terrors, demons, malificar, blood mages, brigands, thieves, bandits, darkspawn, golems, and harvestors will all rise from the ocean to destroy the entire planet, engulfing it in flames. Repent, the end is nigh!



All the humans will curse the maker for the evils that he created, thus the third great sin of man shall come = blasphemy. With a heavy sigh, the maker shall create a new planet of marvelous things.



Thus the hubris of man shall no more desecrate the mighty name of the maker, *insert appropriate title here*.



In all seriousness the only thing that would happen would be either a return of the worship of the old gods or the creation of a new religion created to explain the world. Many civilizations have risen and fallen, all the gods and culture forgotten. New countries with new beliefs rise up and take the place of the old.

[Eveangaline]

The RustMonster wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

The Chantry was not built solely to police magelings. All that's just a fairly minor sideshow. The teachings of Andraste form the backbone of civilization in all of Thedas.

Take away the current Chantry-based civilization in Thedas and you replace it with either the Qun as the new civilizing influence or total anarchy while a new civ establishes itself.

But the chantry doesn't run the kingdoms, the kings, queens, banorn, and nobles do. Even if the chantry falls apart, they'll still have government set up.

The Catholic Church doesn't have any political power, but you can bet there would be a major crapstorm if suddenly was removed from power.

Yes, but it would hardly destroy civilization.

[Legbiter]

Eveangaline wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

The Chantry was not built solely to police magelings. All that's just a fairly minor sideshow. The teachings of Andraste form the backbone of civilization in all of Thedas.

Take away the current Chantry-based civilization in Thedas and you replace it with either the Qun as the new civilizing influence or total anarchy while a new civ establishes itself.

But the chantry doesn't run the kingdoms, the kings, queens, banorn, and nobles do. Even if the chantry falls apart, they'll still have government set up.

And they rule hand-in-glove with the Chantry, much like it was in Western civilization before Luther.

Take away that sanctity and all it implies about say, royal conduct, and all you have is a local warlord.

[Augustei]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

The Chantry does FAR MORE than just hide away mages in towers.

Oh, you don't have to tell ME this.  I am very much aware of the fact that the Chantry is an institution of invasive culture hegemony and I've discussed on this forum more than once.  However, I try to keep in mind that the Chantry--the correct political entity--was just one version of the religion about Andraste and the Maker (the one an Orlesian emperor decided was correct) and that it's probably possible to have a less authoritarian version of it.

Why have a less authoritarian version of it? The Chantry is too weak. If it goes down the toilet even more, Thedas might as well make way for the Qun. Resistance is futile.

So.. Inflict mass suffering to introduce a new system of.... Suffering.. "Dont worry mages, we will get rid of these damn oppresors.. all you gotta do is have your tongue cut out, be leashed and put in a pen"

[Haverrun]

The RustMonster wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

The Chantry was not built solely to police magelings. All that's just a fairly minor sideshow. The teachings of Andraste form the backbone of civilization in all of Thedas.

Take away the current Chantry-based civilization in Thedas and you replace it with either the Qun as the new civilizing influence or total anarchy while a new civ establishes itself.

But the chantry doesn't run the kingdoms, the kings, queens, banorn, and nobles do. Even if the chantry falls apart, they'll still have government set up.

The Catholic Church doesn't have any political power, but you can bet there would be a major crapstorm if suddenly was removed from power.

The Catholic church does not currently have its own army or have major political influence with several large nations as the Chantry does. Considering that not as many people follow the Catholic church as they used to, the impact wouldn't be worldwide.

[Riona45]

XxDeonxX wrote...
So.. Inflict mass suffering to introduce a new system of.... Suffering.. "Dont worry mages, we will get rid of these damn oppresors.. all you gotta do is have your tongue cut out, be leashed and put in a pen"

That'd be a great counterpoint if someone was arguing for the introduction of a new system of suffering.

No one was.

[falconlord5]

Legbiter wrote...


And they rule hand-in-glove with the Chantry, much like it was in Western civilization before Luther.

Take away that sanctity and all it implies about say, royal conduct, and all you have is a local warlord.

Yeah, no. The West oftened ignored the pope (the English), co-opted the Pope (the French) or attempted to conquer the Pope (everybody else).

The difference between a king and a warlord? How long his lines been in power.

Modifié par falconlord5, 19 février 2011 - 05:53 .

[Augustei]

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

I hope there are no half ass Chantry reform options, Choices should be hard. They shouldn't go like this

Option1:Kill all religous fellows who fear for their lives from a Genetic heritage of Human beings who can cause nukes to come out their fingers and control your mind if they wish to do so.

Option 2:Comit Genocide or lock up all human beings born diffrent in a tower despite commiting no crime.

Option 3:Reform chantry to be fair,despite them hating mages. Everyone happy.

Everyone happy? yeah I wouldn't say that... what about the extremests? Then will fight because they dont like change... There is alot who would support them anyway and well.. Back to my original post of lots of people dying.. I mean mind you it is a much better alternative to reform them then to remove them completely because the former involves hundreds of thousands of more deaths

[Riona45]

Haverrun wrote...
The Catholic church does not currently have its own army or have major political influence with several large nations as the Chantry does. Considering that not as many people follow the Catholic church as they used to, the impact wouldn't be worldwide.

If anything the influence of the modern Catholic Church has been waning with time.  So yeah, it's not the best example.

[Riona45]

falconlord5 wrote...

Legbiter wrote...


And they rule hand-in-glove with the Chantry, much like it was in Western civilization before Luther.

Take away that sanctity and all it implies about say, royal conduct, and all you have is a local warlord.

Yeah, no. The West oftened ignored the pope (the English), co-opted the Pope (the French) or attempted to conquer the Pope (everybody else).

The difference between a king and a warlord? How long his lines been in power.

Legbiter thinks all tribal societies are "brutal" as per his/her post in another thread.

[Augustei]

Haverrun wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

The Chantry was not built solely to police magelings. All that's just a fairly minor sideshow. The teachings of Andraste form the backbone of civilization in all of Thedas.

Take away the current Chantry-based civilization in Thedas and you replace it with either the Qun as the new civilizing influence or total anarchy while a new civ establishes itself.

But the chantry doesn't run the kingdoms, the kings, queens, banorn, and nobles do. Even if the chantry falls apart, they'll still have government set up.

The Catholic Church doesn't have any political power, but you can bet there would be a major crapstorm if suddenly was removed from power.

The Catholic church does not currently have its own army or have major political influence with several large nations as the Chantry does. Considering that not as many people follow the Catholic church as they used to, the impact wouldn't be worldwide.

Not as many follow it yes. But it still has ALOT of followers. Countries would come to its defence it people tried to remove it. Isn't it like.. the biggest religion in the world still?

They dont really need their own army, The chantry's army is very small and actually requires other countries assistance in their exalted marches
EDIT: Just checked, yes it is

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 19 février 2011 - 05:58 .

[Eveangaline]

Removing the chantry would certainly likely end up with far fewer abominations. With hedge witches and whatnot making a comeback, there'll be a mage in every town so that any kids that find out they have magic can just pop over for learning so they don't accidently summon demons. It works for the Dalish, no reason it can't work for humans.