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Graphics not better than the Witcher 2: who cares? Content and Combat will rock!


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#401
darkblueglass

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Pechvogel wrote...

Those of you claiming that graphics are of little importance seem to be missing the point. Low res textures I can forgive ( although, I feel that a certain level of technical competency should be expacted from a AAA title) Its the art and character design that I find unispiring, and these are crucial for creating immersion – a concept I think we can all agree to be especially important in RPGs.

Thats where TW excels. The devs did a beatiful job of creating a low fantasy world filled whith locations which feel real, coherent and consistant. The forest for instance is filled with colorfull, tropical , creatures which makes me think of some deep ocean world, beautiful yet dangerous and univiting. It all makes sense. Locations feel complete, a village feels like a village, tavern feels like a tavern, a city feels like a city.
I do not get that from DA2, where all seems to consists of huge empty spaces filled with walls occasionally decorated with some meaningles ornaments and random NPCs.

I do not intend to draw any direct comparions, that would feel wrong, like picking on the fat kid, and I belive we all had enough of that. The following example issimply to illustrate my point.
Just recently I made a little discovery, Iorweth (the elf fom the walkthroug) carries a number of badges, coats of arms of a sort. The same type Roche and other high ranking official have. And than it occured to me, he murders tham, steales their badges and carries tham like trophies. This was such a simple yet briliant way of showing his disregard for human life - without using a single wolrd. That is a top notch characterisation right there.

This is also something I do not see in DA2. It all feels random like the devs didn’t think it throuh. Its frustraiting.
Someone please prove me wrong.


I agree that TW has much more detailed environmnets but DA:O has more different locations and more detailed dungeons.  TW's dungeons look pretty similar to each other. Nothing compares to places like Deep Roads. TW's environemnts are seems flat and not much vertial variation. 

At first I like the cities/villiage in TW and it felt more alive and much bigger than DA:O. There are many more NPCs and they have their own scheduled etc. But most of them look alike and you cannot talk to or have same generic dialogue. At the end they feel like randomly generated ones. So I lost my interestes. It is not like old Ultima games espeially Ultima 7. In Ultima 7, all the NPCs were unique and interesting. All of them have unique dialoge option.

Even though TW pays much attention to the environments, the dialogues feels incomplete and unpolished (even in the director's cut edition). Often, I talked to an NPC and select the first dialogue option and the NPC talked about it and I select the second dialogue option which is related to the first option but the NPC talks as if we didn't talk about the subject.  I'm sick and tired of Gareth saying How about Slamandra? to different NPC over and over again. They break the immersion and DA:O did much better job regarding that.

DA series has much detailed companion and you can bring them. It is huge plus to me compared to the TW. I dind't feel much bond to the supporting character in the TW.

And About the story. Many people prefer TW's more realistic low fantasy story to the DA's story but there are many others who prefer DA's epicness. I think that it is more personal preference as opposed that one is superior to the other one. I prefer DA's story and it feels more fantasy. 

For me, each game has pros / cons. Both are great games but I wouldn't say TW series are just better than DA. Personally, I prefer DA for its interesting companions and more engaging battle and polished dialogues/acting.

Modifié par darkblueglass, 19 février 2011 - 08:38 .


#402
MortalEngines

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

MortalEngines wrote...

Now, I'll be frank. I don't believe that I, as the customer and player, have to force myself through something I paid for and don't enjoy.


Check my other posts in the thread, I defend your position.

I know and I thank you for it, that comment wasn't directed at you ;)

#403
Anathemic

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darkblueglass wrote...
I agree that TW has much more detailed environmnets but DA:O has more different locations and more detailed dungeons.  TW's dungeons look pretty similar to each other. Nothing compares to places like Deep Roads. TW's environemnts are seems flat and not much vertial variation. 

At first I like the cities/villiage in TW and it felt more alive and much bigger than DA:O. There are many more NPCs and they have their own scheduled etc. But most of them look alike and you cannot talk to or have same generic dialogue. At the end they feel like randomly generated ones. So I lost my interestes. It is not like old Ultima games espeially Ultima 7. In Ultima 7, all the NPCs were unique and interesting. All of them have unique dialoge option.

Even though TW pays much attention to the environments, the dialogues feels incomplete and unpolished (even in the director's cut edition). Often, I talked to an NPC and select the first dialogue option and the NPC talked about it and I select the second dialogue option which is related to the first option but the NPC talks as if we didn't talk about the subject.  I'm sick and tired of Gareth saying How about Slamandra? to different NPC over and over again. They break the immersion and DA:O did much better job regarding that.

DA series has much detailed companion and you can bring them. It is huge plus to me compared to the TW. I dind't feel much bond to the supporting character in the TW.

And About the story. Many people prefer TW's more realistic low fantasy story to the DA's story but there are many others who prefer DA's epicness. I think that it is more personal preference as opposed that one is superior to the other one. I prefer DA's story and it feels more fantasy. 

For me, each game has pros / cons. Both are great games but I wouldn't say TW series are just better than DA. Personally, I prefer DA for its interesting companions and more engaging battle and polished dialogues/acting.


I love how the beginning started off indifferent and the near end you put a paragraph full of bias. Realistic low fantasy story my ass

#404
godlike13

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Im not a fan of bad graphics, i wanted to throw Two Worlds 2 out the widow because of it, but from what ive seen from this game the graphics look quite good IMO.

Modifié par godlike13, 19 février 2011 - 08:47 .


#405
MortalEngines

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Anathemic wrote...
I love how the beginning started off indifferent and the near end you put a paragraph full of bias. Realistic low fantasy story my ass


The man was stating his opinion, this is a forum where people discuss their opinions, of course it's going to have bias, every opinion does. I could quote so many of your posts and point out various bias, but we all have a right to have bias and put them forward.

#406
asindre

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Anathemic wrote...

I admit that the beginning of TW being bland is not in it's favor, but again this is all made up throughout the progression of the game.

"It get's better later" is never a good excuse.
It shouldn't have to get better later, the game should be good from the beginning. If I feel like the first five hours is just work to get to the good part then the game has failed.


Just want to say that I liked the witcher, I just don't like when "it gets better later" is used as an excuse.

#407
Anathemic

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MortalEngines wrote...

Anathemic wrote...
I love how the beginning started off indifferent and the near end you put a paragraph full of bias. Realistic low fantasy story my ass


The man was stating his opinion, this is a forum where people discuss their opinions, of course it's going to have bias, every opinion does. I could quote so many of your posts and point out various bias, but we all have a right to have bias and put them forward.


Course, that's what a forum does now right? Now what's the purpose of argument? 2 objectives: To keep an opinion or to change an opinion.

As the purpose of the forum is to share opinions, there's always the chance that some opinion might be affected in some neagative way (percieved by the withholder of the opinion) therefore arguments are bound to happen.

My posts do have bias, because I have an opinion. But my posts also have the background that I've played the game. When I see posts of people disliking the game without a single full playthrough then I have the reserved right of mine to bash the hell out of it.

Then again said opinion against mine might be a humble opinion. But then again arguments exist on forums always and one must always be preprepared for arugments in an opinion-enforced medium.

#408
Anathemic

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asindre wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

I admit that the beginning of TW being bland is not in it's favor, but again this is all made up throughout the progression of the game.

"It get's better later" is never a good excuse.
It shouldn't have to get better later, the game should be good from the beginning. If I feel like the first five hours is just work to get to the good part then the game has failed.


Just want to say that I liked the witcher, I just don't like when "it gets better later" is used as an excuse.


It's really the only excuse one has to defend TW story when faced with people who didn't make it through the whole game. Honestly, what other excuse you can have? Most people aren't going to read the books to give them more prestige to get through the game.

Modifié par Anathemic, 19 février 2011 - 08:53 .


#409
upsettingshorts

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Anathemic wrote...

My posts do have bias, because I have an opinion. But my posts also have the background that I've played the game. When I see posts of people disliking the game without a single full playthrough then I have the reserved right of mine to bash the hell out of it.


Their opinion on the beginning of the game is just as valid.

It's like... I have friends who won't watch Babylon 5 because the first season is kind of mediocre.   I believe the payoff you get later by watching the whole series and seeing the plot threads connected makes the first season better in retrospect.  But my friends who can't sit through it have an opinion about the first season that is just as valid as mine.  

Same with TW.  I don't see him saying that TW's ending was bad, or that some skill became useless at higher levels, or that zones he never played through weren't any good.  The beginning didn't hook him and that ruined the game in his eyes.  That's perfectly reasonable.

#410
Piecake

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Anathemic wrote...

MortalEngines wrote...

Anathemic wrote...
I love how the beginning started off indifferent and the near end you put a paragraph full of bias. Realistic low fantasy story my ass


The man was stating his opinion, this is a forum where people discuss their opinions, of course it's going to have bias, every opinion does. I could quote so many of your posts and point out various bias, but we all have a right to have bias and put them forward.


Course, that's what a forum does now right? Now what's the purpose of argument? 2 objectives: To keep an opinion or to change an opinion.

As the purpose of the forum is to share opinions, there's always the chance that some opinion might be affected in some neagative way (percieved by the withholder of the opinion) therefore arguments are bound to happen.

My posts do have bias, because I have an opinion. But my posts also have the background that I've played the game. When I see posts of people disliking the game without a single full playthrough then I have the reserved right of mine to bash the hell out of it.

Then again said opinion against mine might be a humble opinion. But then again arguments exist on forums always and one must always be preprepared for arugments in an opinion-enforced medium.


yet you think that DA2 will have a simple and formulaic story based on previous bioware games?  How consistent

#411
Anathemic

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Piecake wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

My posts do have bias, because I have an opinion. But my posts also have the background that I've played the game. When I see posts of people disliking the game without a single full playthrough then I have the reserved right of mine to bash the hell out of it.


yet you think that DA2 will have a simple and formulaic story based on previous bioware games?  How consistent


How is it inconsitent? I've played both Mass Effect and DA:O with atleast 2 full playthroughs on each.

#412
MortalEngines

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Anathemic wrote...
Course, that's what a forum does now right? Now what's the purpose of argument? 2 objectives: To keep an opinion or to change an opinion.


Actually the purpose of this thread is to discuss the irrevelance of graphics the level of TW2 compared to Content and Combat, a point I think we are both guilty of missing.

Anathemic wrote...
As the purpose of the forum is to share opinions, there's always the chance that some opinion might be affected in some neagative way (percieved by the withholder of the opinion) therefore arguments are bound to happen.

My posts do have bias, because I have an opinion. But my posts also have the background that I've played the game. When I see posts of people disliking the game without a single full playthrough then I have the reserved right of mine to bash the hell out of it.


You just admitted that your post has bias after telling someone off for having a post with bias? That is to be frank, hypocritical. The poster you just told off never mentioned whether he played the full game or not and so you instead bash him because he had bias, despite you standing here saying that it's okay to have bias. You can bash my opinion all you want, but like I said, it was 3 hours, not 4 minutes, seeing as most games last around 10 hours nowadays, 3 hours is more than enough to form a decent opinion.

Modifié par MortalEngines, 19 février 2011 - 09:00 .


#413
upsettingshorts

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Anathemic wrote...

How is it inconsitent? I've played both Mass Effect and DA:O with atleast 2 full playthroughs on each.


I believe it's inconsistent because you're judging the story content something without having played the full product (DA2).

#414
Anathemic

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MortalEngines wrote...

Anathemic wrote...
Course, that's what a forum does now right? Now what's the purpose of argument? 2 objectives: To keep an opinion or to change an opinion.


Actually the purpose of this thread is to discuss the irrevelance of graphics the level of TW2 compared to Content and Combat, a point I think we are both guilty of missing.

Anathemic wrote...
As the purpose of the forum is to share opinions, there's always the chance that some opinion might be affected in some neagative way (percieved by the withholder of the opinion) therefore arguments are bound to happen.

My posts do have bias, because I have an opinion. But my posts also have the background that I've played the game. When I see posts of people disliking the game without a single full playthrough then I have the reserved right of mine to bash the hell out of it.


You just admitted that your post has bias after tellikng someone off for having a post with bias? That is to be frank, hypocritical. The poster you just told off never mentioned whether he played the full game or not and so you instead bash him because he had bias, despite you standing here saying that it's okay to have bias. You can bash my opinion all you want, but like I said, it was 3 hours, not 4 minutes, seeing as most games last around 10 hours nowadays, 3 hours is more than enough to form a decent opinion.


Not hypocritical (in the creation of post) because my opinion has proper background of proper full playthrough.

And yes I am at fault for not taking his argument into full consideration due to arguing 3+ people at same time, I'm not perfect -_-

#415
MortalEngines

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

How is it inconsitent? I've played both Mass Effect and DA:O with atleast 2 full playthroughs on each.


I believe it's inconsistent because you're judging the story content something without having played the full product (DA2).


This. Not to mention the vast changes stated between DA:O and the fact that ME is a slightly different genre by a different development team makes your point invalid, by your own rules.

Anathemic wrote...

Not hypocritical (in the creation of post) because my opinion has proper background of proper full playthrough.

And yes I am at fault for not taking his argument into full consideration due to arguing 3+ people at same time, I'm not perfect [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sleeping.png[/smilie]


Fine, not hypocritcal, judgemental, since your assuming that he hasn't played the full game and that he hasn't got the proper background/proper playthrough. Lets be honest here, I could of posted that I've played 25 hours of TW and no one would know if I was telling the truth or not, stating how many hours you've played isn't a way of using proof.

Modifié par MortalEngines, 19 février 2011 - 09:04 .


#416
Piecake

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

How is it inconsitent? I've played both Mass Effect and DA:O with atleast 2 full playthroughs on each.


I believe it's inconsistent because you're judging the story content something without having played the full product (DA2).


yup

#417
Savber100

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My two cents:
Whether you like DA: Origins or The Witcher better,
why does it mean that the other game HAS to suck? Yes, I like DA:O
better than The Witcher. I hated how the voice-acting and dialogue were
mediocre (not horrible only mediocre) in comparison to DA:O but does
that mean The Witcher=HORIBBE GAM?

....No?

For example, I
disliked Starcraft II for the story and the stereotypical, cliched
characters but I'm not retarded and decide that the game therefore is
"poorly-made" or "suck balls" The game is well-done and perfectly
balanced in the gameplay but it just doesn't APPEAL to ME since I prefer
a game with complex characters and deep storylines.
So both sides should just
stop acting like the other game has to suck in order for your game to
shine. Both have enough merits to be great games.

Modifié par Savber100, 19 février 2011 - 09:07 .


#418
upsettingshorts

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Anathemic wrote...

Not hypocritical (in the creation of post) because my opinion has proper background of proper full playthrough.


I've described at length why disputing his argument regarding the beginning of the game based on your experience with the rest of the game is invalid.

#419
Master Shiori

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Anathemic wrote...

 When I see posts of people disliking the game without a single full playthrough then I have the reserved right of mine to bash the hell out of it.


Sorry, but you don't.

Nowhere does it say you can't dislike a game unless you've played through it. Somebody can start playing The Witcher, DA:O or any other rpg and 3 hours into the game decide that he/she really doesn't like the characters he/she has seen, the setting where the game takes place, the way combat or character progression are handled, etc. While that doesn't give him/her the right to judge, say, the entire story of the game, it does give him/her the right to claim how this particular game doesn't appeal to him/her based on what he/she has seen so far.

#420
Savber100

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Double post

Modifié par Savber100, 19 février 2011 - 09:06 .


#421
MortalEngines

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Savber100 wrote...
For example, I disliked Starcraft II for the story and the stereotypical, cliched characters but I'm not retarded and decide that the game therefore is "poorly-made" or "suck balls" The game is well-done and perfectly balanced in the gameplay but it just doesn't APPEAL to ME.
So both sides should just stop acting like the other game has to suck in order for your game to shine. Both have enough merits to be great games.


I've stated numerous, numerous times that. The witcher is NOT a bad game, it just was not a game for me and TO me it was a bad game, because it didn't fit my expectations. Doesn't mean it was a bad game universally, just like many people find Darksiders a boring story while I find it rather entertaining. Really it's the majority's veiws that count, not an indiviuals.

#422
Savber100

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MortalEngines wrote...

Savber100 wrote...
For example, I disliked Starcraft II for the story and the stereotypical, cliched characters but I'm not retarded and decide that the game therefore is "poorly-made" or "suck balls" The game is well-done and perfectly balanced in the gameplay but it just doesn't APPEAL to ME.
So both sides should just stop acting like the other game has to suck in order for your game to shine. Both have enough merits to be great games.


I've stated numerous, numerous times that. The witcher is NOT a bad game, it just was not a game for me and TO me it was a bad game, because it didn't fit my expectations. Doesn't mean it was a bad game universally, just like many people find Darksiders a boring story while I find it rather entertaining. Really it's the majority's veiws that count, not an indiviuals.


You mean the individual, not the majority views, matters right? :P

Modifié par Savber100, 19 février 2011 - 09:08 .


#423
Anathemic

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Not hypocritical (in the creation of post) because my opinion has proper background of proper full playthrough.


I've described at length why disputing his argument regarding the beginning of the game based on your experience with the rest of the game is invalid.


True.

However, I have a differerent take on these things on forums. Almost every opinion in my eyes dealing with the topic at hand (in this case games) is treated as professional critique.

And  from there is where I form my argument on.

Note that I said almost, because obviously there's going to be some silly threads or threads on updates and whatnot.

Modifié par Anathemic, 19 février 2011 - 09:11 .


#424
asindre

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Anathemic wrote...
It's really the only excuse one has to defend TW story when faced with people who didn't make it through the whole game. Honestly, what other excuse you can have? Most people aren't going to read the books to give them more prestige to get through the game.

And I agree with you that it does get better later, but for people who didn't get past the beginning that isn't going to matter.
Many people tell me that FF13 gets better later, but I wasn't having fun playing, and if it's not fun than I see no reason to keep playing.

#425
Anathemic

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Master Shiori wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

 When I see posts of people disliking the game without a single full playthrough then I have the reserved right of mine to bash the hell out of it.


Sorry, but you don't.

Nowhere does it say you can't dislike a game unless you've played through it. Somebody can start playing The Witcher, DA:O or any other rpg and 3 hours into the game decide that he/she really doesn't like the characters he/she has seen, the setting where the game takes place, the way combat or character progression are handled, etc. While that doesn't give him/her the right to judge, say, the entire story of the game, it does give him/her the right to claim how this particular game doesn't appeal to him/her based on what he/she has seen so far.


And so far most of the opinions on here are judging view of the game, therefore I have a right to bash and go against their opinion to defend mine.

"The game was bad"
"How?"
"Beginning sucked"
"..."