177 réponses à ce sujet

[SlayTheDragons]

Vahe wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

Vahe wrote...

Atmosfear3 wrote...

The rogue attacks are similar to fighters who practice in modern day kali/eskrima. It is a discipline originating from the Philippines. Sometimes the sticks used in practice are substituted with knives which still utilize the same motions.

They use light sticks, not swords and daggers.  And why is British medieval fantasy using martial arts tactics from the Philippines?  It doesn't fit in with the rest of the universe. 

In training, they do. But in actual combat they use weapons like machetes and ginuntings, which are heavy and actually larger than what would be considered a dagger. And I'm not really familiar with a British Medieval dual weapon style. Not to mention that Bioware has said that while some of the Dragon Age world is based on Medieval Europe, it doesn't mean the whole world has to follow the same exact restrictions.

There is no reaon for Rogues of the same time period to use different fighting animations when they're using the same style.  Remember, DA2 starts at the same time as DA:O.  Unless it's an alternate universe (it isn't), it wouldn't make sense for Hawke to use a fighting style that no other Rogue in Thedas uses. 

but hawke's unlike any other rogue in thedas, he's the champion of kirkwall...

i get your point, but i don't see how people within the same fighting style can't move differently. you can all be taught the same fighting style, but how you apply the techniques is dependent on your attributes.

[Ploppy]

Vahe wrote...
This part of the demo is the "real" part.  Not the exagerration. 

Varric isn't a machine with perfect, objective memory. Every scene includes some aspects he has to improvise (the colour of the sky at that exact time of day, the tone of an NPC's voice, the exact wording of a piece of dialogue), because he simply has no way of remembering every single detail. So yes, if there's anything in the game that seems odd, you can chalk it up to the filter of Varric's narration.

[Berkilak]

Vahe wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

Vahe wrote...

That's not the only problem with them. As a couple others have noticed, they don't flow well at all. Each attack looks discrete instead of continuous. The attacks in DA:O looked very natural. No awkward pauses where the body stiffs up just to do a single animation.

Bar the riverdance your character did for a good five seconds before beginning to attack... 

Remember, framed narrative. She probably didn't punt the bomb, but Varric thought it would be cooler if she did.

This part of the demo is the "real" part.  Not the exagerration. 

The entire story is exagerration. The first little bit was just hyper-exagerration... hyperbole, if you will. It's all a story Varric is telling.

[Vahe]

Ploppy wrote...

Vahe wrote...
This part of the demo is the "real" part.  Not the exagerration. 

Varric isn't a machine with perfect, objective memory. Every scene includes some aspects he has to improvise (the colour of the sky at that exact time of day, the tone of an NPC's voice, the exact wording of a piece of dialogue), because he simply has no way of remembering every single detail. So yes, if there's anything in the game that seems odd, you can chalk it up to the filter of Varric's narration.

Varric is not describing Hawke's fighting style. 

[BadJustice]

The only problem I see with it is how she looks like she is hitting like Flash (from DC comics) but hey shes a rogue.

[Harid]

Ploppy wrote...

Vahe wrote...
This part of the demo is the "real" part.  Not the exagerration. 

Varric isn't a machine with perfect, objective memory. Every scene includes some aspects he has to improvise (the colour of the sky at that exact time of day, the tone of an NPC's voice, the exact wording of a piece of dialogue), because he simply has no way of remembering every single detail. So yes, if there's anything in the game that seems odd, you can chalk it up to the filter of Varric's narration.

This is like. . .not serious, right?

[Berkilak]

Vahe wrote...

Ploppy wrote...

Vahe wrote...
This part of the demo is the "real" part.  Not the exagerration. 

Varric isn't a machine with perfect, objective memory. Every scene includes some aspects he has to improvise (the colour of the sky at that exact time of day, the tone of an NPC's voice, the exact wording of a piece of dialogue), because he simply has no way of remembering every single detail. So yes, if there's anything in the game that seems odd, you can chalk it up to the filter of Varric's narration.

Varric is not describing Hawke's fighting style. 

You tried to refute me in my last post by saying he was doing just that in the exagerrated prologue.

[otakudad]

the exaggerated animations are a visual metaphor for varric's hyperbolic storytelling; obviously he's not detailing every single swing of hawke's sword, but it communicates the idea that varric is playing it up nonetheless.

(actually, i just think it's incredibly pedantic for everyone to be complaining about this, but i'm a sucker for anything that's gratuitously over-the-top so i have no real problem with it. as has been said many times, i'd take just about anything over the absurd shuffling of origins.)

Modifié par otakudad, 20 février 2011 - 05:05 .

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Let's put it this way, anything is an upgrade to the hunchback of Notred Dame stances that were used in DA:O. Granted, DA:O's stances can be modded, and I did just that, but still. 

[Ellestor]

Vahe wrote...

http://www.youtube.c...s1j3Uqs#t=0m40s

Judge for yourself.  Something is off about them.  I don't know, it seems like she's attempting to dice up fruits and vegetables with those strokes.  And why spend so much effort spin-jump-kicking something every five seconds?  The mechanics look really fun and I'm glad the awkward shuffling is mostly gone, but the animations are just off-putting.  They look like they're straight out of an anime.  I vastly preferred the DA:O animations (especially the backstab animation, which had a lot of weight in it). 

Of course, there is always the possibility that I am blind, and I don't even know it.  So which is it?

I agree, but combat is so heavily abstracted in these games that it seems odd to single this out. Spin-jump-kicking something every five seconds seems insubstantial in a genre where even human foes regularly take multiple weapons plunging into their bodies as if they were modest punches.

[Cyr8]

After the skill tree reveal of yesterday, I was thinking of using the rogue, but I don't think I can deal with the rogue's annimations the whole time for the first playthrough. I'll go back to playing the mage first.

[TransientNomad]

I find it hilarious that acrobatics and flourishes from a rogue are considered by some to be "over-the-top" but are perfectly fine with people turning into giant spiders, throwing fireballs, and fitty ton lizards flying through the air.

[Andy379]

Brockololly wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

I cant shake the image of a jedi doing some of those butterfly jump attacks.

DAO sword fights

DA2 sword fights


Unnecessary flips and acrobatics do not make something cool.

Honestly, with all the talk from the devs of making the combat more "reactive" and "press a button and something awesome happens!" I'd have hoped that had more to do with actual responsiveness in the clash of swords than the supposed "shuffle." 

I mean, have the actual combat between people look like something more than just one guy standing there with his HP slowly draining while the attacker recycles the same animations over and over again. You had this issue in Origins as well, and if they're trying to make the combat more exciting, have it look more dynamic in terms of actual interaction and responsiveness between the combatants. Just speeding up the animations and making them more over the top doesn't do that, IMO.

I like #2 better. Does that make me a bad person?

[Morroian]

Cyr8 wrote...

After the skill tree reveal of yesterday, I was thinking of using the rogue, but I don't think I can deal with the rogue's annimations the whole time for the first playthrough. I'll go back to playing the mage first.

Yeah I agree with the OP about the rogue animations. I wasn't going to play a dual wield rogue at all because an acrobatic ninja type is not my sort of character and the demo only solidified that view. I might play a rogue archer but it won't be until my 4th play through.

Funny that they took away from warrior to make rogue more unique yet they've ended up making rogue worse than in DAO IMHO.

[SlayTheDragons]

Morroian wrote...

Cyr8 wrote...

After the skill tree reveal of yesterday, I was thinking of using the rogue, but I don't think I can deal with the rogue's annimations the whole time for the first playthrough. I'll go back to playing the mage first.

Yeah I agree with the OP about the rogue animations. I wasn't going to play a dual wield rogue at all because an acrobatic ninja type is not my sort of character and the demo only solidified that view. I might play a rogue archer but it won't be until my 4th play through.

Funny that they took away from warrior to make rogue more unique yet they've ended up making rogue worse than in DAO IMHO.

i'm curious, what is so much better about the rogue in DAO than in DA2?

[Revan312]

The rogue animations are over the top, but after seeing Aveline fighting enemies solo in that "demo" upload onto youtube, the rogue animations seem almost bearable. Aveline stabs her sword forward in the same way about a bazillion times in that video.. uhg..



Here it is.. lasts a solid two minutes.. Hope there's some more variation in auto attacks.. because if not, wow I'm gonna be popping abilities and running away just to get a break from the *shingk, shingk, shingk* noise..

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Well, the good news is we have stamina pots. Rogues and Warriors will be able to press buttons in combat just like their Mage counterparts.

[chunkyman]

Revan312 wrote...

The rogue animations are over the top, but after seeing Aveline fighting enemies solo in that "demo" upload onto youtube, the rogue animations seem almost bearable. Aveline stabs her sword forward in the same way about a bazillion times in that video.. uhg..

Here it is.. lasts a solid two minutes.. Hope there's some more variation in auto attacks.. because if not, wow I'm gonna be popping abilities and running away just to get a break from the *shingk, shingk, shingk* noise..

Also notice how she practically throws the shield behind her when she attacks. I dislike that 100 times more than potion kicking.

[Atmosfear3]

Revan312 wrote...

The rogue animations are over the top, but after seeing Aveline fighting enemies solo in that "demo" upload onto youtube, the rogue animations seem almost bearable. Aveline stabs her sword forward in the same way about a bazillion times in that video.. uhg..

Here it is.. lasts a solid two minutes.. Hope there's some more variation in auto attacks.. because if not, wow I'm gonna be popping abilities and running away just to get a break from the *shingk, shingk, shingk* noise..

Aveline is attacking that way because shes in a defensive stance. Its an actual ability. Apparently some the different sustained abilities can modify the attack animations.

[lazuli]

Hopefully the stamina system has been completely reworked, so there is more of an emphasis on using attack skills as opposed to auto-attack being the path to victory (as it was in Origins). I imagine these auto-attacks look best when interspersed with tactical skill use.

[Vahe]

lazuli wrote...

Hopefully the stamina system has been completely reworked, so there is more of an emphasis on using attack skills as opposed to auto-attack being the path to victory (as it was in Origins). I imagine these auto-attacks look best when interspersed with tactical skill use.

Yeah, Origins/Awakening/DLC consisted of me turning on about 6 different auras, having enough stamina for pretty much one or two attacks at the most, and critting 350+ every half a second.  All I did was get behind someone and right click. 

[TheSleazebag]

Animators were watching anime all day long on the day they started their work

[RohanD]

It's not that the animations look "bad" per se, it's just that they're well...way too over the top. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far, and those fighting animations are pushing mine to it's limits.

It would simply be physically impossible for anyone to continue to fight like that for any length of time. No human can do constant flips, kicks and twirls like that. It is beyond the realms of what we know is possible. This feeling is even stronger now, because the hero is set as a human, so we immediately identify with them as being the same species as us, with the same limitations and faults. 

You could say "well this is a video game" but then that can be used to excuse just about anything. To me, from what I have seen so far, the attack animations for this game are pretty silly. I think my issue with them is that they are too fast and probably too few. Sure it's great to have different animations, but when you've only got 3-4 to choose from and they all look so fast and crazy, it becomes kind of...ugly.

I think the key point I want to make is this - I feel, especially for Western RPGs, that a certain amount of realism to add contrast to the fantastical world I am experiencing is necessary. Without that realism, the immersion is diluted. It changes from "I'm experiencing this world with a character I created" to "I'm playing a video game now".

I think that this was such a brilliant thing that Bioware did with the Infinity Engine games and also Dragon Age Origins. It's really sad to see that they seem to have lost the plot with DA2.

Of course this doesn't mean that I think it will be a bad game (I've preordered the SE), but I will definitely get sick and tired of watching the fighting with all these ridiculous animations.

I guess I will see what it's really like when the demo comes out, but I can say right now, playing a rogue is probably out. 

Modifié par RohanD, 20 février 2011 - 11:04 .

[Tleining]

"It's not that the animations look "bad" per se, it's just that they're well...way too over the top. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far, and those fighting animations are pushing mine to it's limits.



It would simply be physically impossible for anyone to continue to fight like that for any length of time. No human can do constant flips, kicks and twirls like that. It is beyond the realms of what we know is possible. This feeling is even stronger now, because the hero is set as a human, so we immediately identify with them as being the same species as us, with the same limitations and faults."



*groan* "per se"? i feel like one of the Goth in South Park.



well, i haven't studied it, but don't most Martial Arts involve constant kicks and "twirls"? Kickboxing comes to mind. Sure, after doing it for a long time, you are going to sweat like an Animal, but no one ever said Hawke smells like Roses



And to counter the "uh, Anime?" feeling that's going on here: Kim Possible!!!!

[lazuli]

Tleining wrote...
And to counter the "uh, Anime?" feeling that's going on here: Kim Possible!!!!

Yes.  Excellent.  Anime isn't a good comparison anyway, as it often devolves into a slide show or hair waving in otherwise motionless poses.  Kim Possible, with its fluid animation, simply drawn characters, and snarky attitude, is a much more attractive comparison.