602 réponses à ce sujet

[Babli]

Mesina2 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
I think there are over a million of humans in Terminus Systems.

They can always buy human slaves from Batarians, which they did.

It was clearly stated, that they needed much more humans that are in Terminus Systems.

Hmh. when did they said that for Human Reaper?

Its hinted at the Collector Ship mission and also in converstaion with EDI when they dicover Human Reaper.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
Actually, the writing in the whole series sucks. I think its fair that we direct our rage at all of Bioware for producing such awful writing and games.

So your not a fan of the games and are just here to bother everybody else or something?

[Rivercurse]

I wonder if Mac even reads these forums. If he read through this topic before going to bed tonight I wouldn't be surprised if he woke up and went to work tomorrow with the express intention of ****ing up Mass Effect 3 just to ****** you bunch of moaners off. (yes I know the writings already been done).



He's lead writer of ME3. That ain't gonna change at this late stage regardless of how much flak he takes on here.

If criticism must be made (and I agree that it should be by the way), try and make it in a way that's even semi constructive.



ps - darknoon5 you deserve a medal.

[CroGamer002]

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
I think there are over a million of humans in Terminus Systems.

They can always buy human slaves from Batarians, which they did.

It was clearly stated, that they needed much more humans that are in Terminus Systems.

Hmh. when did they said that for Human Reaper?

Its hinted at the Collector Ship mission and also in converstaion with EDI when they dicover Human Reaper.

Your squadmate said they COULD take every human in the Terminus Systems and still have many left, not that they need.

Also EDI said they need millions more, while Terminus Systems has millions of humans.

[marshalleck]

And millions of humans are going to continue to reside in the Terminus while another million have been abducted? They just won't respond to this at all? At some point the abductions would have to reach a critical mass which can no longer be ignored by the galaxy, and then what? The Collector ship pops out of the Arcturus relay and gets smoked by the entire Fifth Fleet. This is what Shepard died and was resurrected for? This is what character resurrection was lampshaded for? Come on.

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 février 2011 - 09:11 .

[Khayness]

marshalleck wrote...

And millions of humans are going to continue to reside in the Terminus while another million have been abducted? They just won't respond to this at all? At some point the abductions would have to reach a critical mass which can no longer be ignored by the galaxy, and then what?

It's just Alliance propaganda to keep them in Alliance space!

Besides, Cerberus is responsible to the abductions according to the Alliance.

Plot Induced Stupidity

[CroGamer002]

marshalleck wrote...

And millions of humans are going to continue to reside in the Terminus while another million have been abducted? They just won't respond to this at all? At some point the abductions would have to reach a critical mass which can no longer be ignored by the galaxy, and then what? The Collector ship pops out of the Arcturus relay and gets smoked by the entire Fifth Fleet. This is what Shepard died and was resurrected for? This is what character resurrection was lampshaded for? Come on.

They didn't respond to 100s of thousands of abducted humans, why would they care even more if it goes over a million then?

And Terminus Systems ain't united and humans aren't very beloved there.

And Alliance can't go to the Terminus Systems with their ships otherwise they would start a war( hinting ME1).

Khayness wrote...

It's just Alliance propaganda to keep them in Alliance space!

Besides, Cerberus is responsible to the abductions according to the Alliance.

Plot Induced Stupidity

That.

Modifié par Mesina2, 19 février 2011 - 09:16 .

[Babli]

Mesina2 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
I think there are over a million of humans in Terminus Systems.

They can always buy human slaves from Batarians, which they did.

It was clearly stated, that they needed much more humans that are in Terminus Systems.

Hmh. when did they said that for Human Reaper?

Its hinted at the Collector Ship mission and also in converstaion with EDI when they dicover Human Reaper.

Your squadmate said they COULD take every human in the Terminus Systems and still have many left, not that they need.

Also EDI said they need millions more, while Terminus Systems has millions of humans.

Another cool picture. You are very cool person.

Also this.

marshalleck wrote...

And millions of humans are going to
continue to reside in the Terminus while another million have been
abducted? They just won't respond to this at all? At some point the
abductions would have to reach a critical mass which can no longer be
ignored by the galaxy, and then what? The Collector ship pops out of
the Arcturus relay and gets smoked by the entire Fifth Fleet. This is
what Shepard died and was resurrected for? This is what character
resurrection was lampshaded for? Come on.

[CroGamer002]

^Thank you for ignoring my points, again!

[Icinix]

All I have to say to the OP.



I agree. But with that said...and at the risk of being mobbed - Comics usually fail to deliver on anything beyond a quick visceral fix. Also, they have clearly spent more time drawing Eva than anyone else in the comic.

[Fhaileas]

Babli wrote...

"Story by Mac Walters"

That sums it up pretty well.

[JKoopman]

@darknoon5

Show me one poll, or even one person, who says they prefer ME2's story to ME1's. ME2's story being lackluster and disjointed was something that was universally panned in virtually every review following ME2's release.

And yes, I'd say "trainwreck" adequately describes what passes for ME2's over-arching story.

The trainwreck starts right off the bat with Shepard dying and being resurrected with space-magic, then forcing Shepard into service with Cerberus with virtually no opportunity for protest despite Cerberus being set up as space-al-Qaeda in ME1 and the default Shepard's origin being that Cerberus is directly responsible for the murder of your entire squad on Akuze (something which Shepard is never even able to mention when speaking with the Illusive Man).

The trend then continues with old allies suddenly being struck blind, deaf and dumb in the form of the new Council and Alliance turning their backs on you ostensibly for no other reason than because Shepard is working with Cerberus (despite the given rationale for Shepard working with Cerberus being that the Council and Alliance have turned their backs on you, so it's kind of a circuitous "which came first" scenario) as well as Shepard finally being reunited with his/her ME1 love interest on Horizon only to have them be struck with such a case of mind-boggling irrationality that they try to blame the abductions on Cerberus (apparently forgetting all about the Collector attack that they witnessed not 5 minutes earlier) and to have Shepard be railroaded by artificial incompetency to the point where--despite being able to successfully persuade Saren to kill himself in ME1--the best response you can come up with after being called a traitor to the Alliance is to say "Well, I can see you're not going to listen to reason" before your former BFF/lover storms off (but they send you a nice email later, so it's all good, right?).

Then there's the whole "humans are more genetically diverse than all other races in the galaxy because we have a wide range of appearances and intelligence levels...even though every other race in the galaxy has idiots and geniuses and a range of different appearances as well...including the asari who can randomize their genetic code with that of other species and should then clearly be the most diverse by far...but we're different/better because...actually, just don't think about it too much and nod your head in understanding" angle that the game tries to push on us no less than three times.

But where things REALLY get bad is on the Collector Base where, in the space of 10 minutes, Mac Walters successfully takes one of the coolest sci-fi enemies of the last 15 years and turns them into a running gag; first with the most facepalming-est WTF moment that was the Baby Terminator Reaper, and then by suddenly revealing that the Reapers are in fact semi-organic and not purely mechanical and that Reapers "reproduce" by melting an organic race into a gray paste that somehow preserves that race's collective consciousness and then use that organic paste to construct a new Reaper in that race's image.

ME2's "story" was a travesty. The fact that it was also the point at which Drew Karpyshyn took a back seat and Mac Walters became the Lead Writer doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence that ME3's story will be any better; which is only reinforced by the retcons and inconsistencies present in his work on Evolution.

I've heard it said that Mac Walters is a better writer of characters than Drew Karpyshyn, but I find even that hard to be believed considering that I found most of the characters in ME2 to be either dry and/or cliched. ME1 had Tali, Garrus and Wrex; three of the most-loved characters in the franchise. What did ME2 add? It replaced Wrex with Grunt and his stereotypical teenage angst, added Jack and her directionless "I'm the queen badass ****"-ery, Jacob with his PRIIIIIZE and the most awesome backstory never to be mentioned ever, Miranda, the stereotypical hotty with daddy issues, etc. The only truely stand-out characters were Mordin and Legion, and the later got nowhere near enough "screen time" or development.

So no, I'm not particularly fond of Mac Walters or the "new and X-treme" direction he seems to be taking Mass Effect in. I wish BioWare would've just left Drew in charge...

Modifié par JKoopman, 19 février 2011 - 09:37 .

[Babli]

ok lets look at your points.

Mesina2 wrote...
They didn't respond to 100s of thousands of abducted humans, why would they care even more if it goes over a million then?

I dont know about you, but I would be concerned very much if I heard about millions of abducted humans in Terminus Systems, if I was a human living in Terminus Systems. But hey, thats just me.

And Terminus Systems ain't united and humans aren't very beloved there.

Another reason to leave.

And Alliance can't go to the Terminus Systems with their ships otherwise they would start a war( hinting ME1).

But after Horizon they would give these defence towers to every big colony out there. Do you seriously think that Alliance would these abductions let just go? They were ALREADY investigating it.

[marshalleck]

JKoopman wrote...

@darknoon5

Show me one poll, or even one person, who says they prefer ME2's story to ME1's. ME2's story being lackluster and disjointed was something that was universally panned in virtually every review following ME2's release.

And yes, I'd say "trainwreck" adequately describes what passes for ME2's over-arching story.

The trainwreck starts right off the bat with Shepard dying and then being resurrected with space-magic, continues with Shepard being forced to work with virtually no opportunity for protest despite Cerberus being set up as space-AlQueda in ME1 and the default Shepard origin being that Cerberus is directly responsible for the murder of your entire squad on Akuze (something which Shepard is never even able to mention when speaking with the Illusive Man).

The trend then continues with old allies suddenly being struck blind, deaf and dumb in the form of the new Council and Alliance turning their backs on you ostensibly for no other reason than because Shepard is working with Cerberus (despite the given rational for Shepard working with Cerberus being that the Council and Alliance have turned their backs on you, so it's kind of a circuitous "which came first" scenario) as well as Shepard finally being reunited with his/her ME1 love interest on Horizon only to have them be struck with such a case of mind-boggling irrationality that they try to blame the abductions on Cerberus (apparently forgetting all about the Collector attack that they witnessed not 5 minutes earlier) and to have Shepard be railroaded by artificial incompetency to the point where--despite being able to successfully persuade Saren to kill himself in ME1--the best response you can come up with after being called a traitor to the Alliance is to say "Well, I can see you're not going to listen to reason" before your former BFF/lover storms off (but they send you a nice email later, so it's all good, right?).

Then there's whole "humans are more genetically diverse than all other races in the galaxy because we have a wide range of appearances and intelligence levels...even though every other race in the galaxy has idiots and geniuses and a range of different appearances as well...including the asari who can randomize their genetic code with that of other species and should then clearly be the most diverse by far...but we're different/better because...actually, just don't think about it too much and nod your head in understanding" angle that the game tries to push on us no less than three times.

But where things REALLY get bad is on the Collector Base where, in the space of 10 minutes, Mac Walters successfully takes one of the coolest sci-fi enemies of the last 15 years and turns them into a running gag; first with the most facepalming-est WTF moment that was the Baby Terminator Reaper, and then by suddenly revealing that the Reapers are in fact semi-organic and not purely mechanical and that Reapers "reproduce" by melting an organic race into a gray paste that somehow preserves that race's collective consciousness and then use that organic paste to construct a new Reaper in that race's image.

ME2's "story" was a travesty. The fact that it was also the point at which Drew Karpyshyn took a back seat and Mac Walters became the Lead Writer doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence that ME3's story will be any better; which is only reinforced by the retcons and inconsistencies present in his work on Evolution.

I've heard it said that Mac Walters is a better writer of characters than Drew Karpyshyn, but I find even that hard to be believe considering I found most of the characters in ME2 to be either dry or cliches. ME1 had Tali, Garrus and Wrex; three of the most-loved characters in the franchise. What did ME2 add? It replaced Wrex with Grunt and his stereotypical teenage angst, added Jack and her directionless "I'm the queen badass ****"-ery, Jacob with his PRIIIIIZE and the most awesome backstory never to be mentioned ever, Miranda, the stereotypical hotty with daddy issues, etc. The only two really stand-out characters were Mordin and Legion, the later barely getting any "screen time" or development at all.

So no, I'm not particularly fond of Mac Walters or the "new and X-treme" direction he seems to be taking Mass Effect in. I wish BioWare would've just left Drew in charge...

This thread delivers. 

[Babli]

mrsph wrote...

You guys do know that Walters doesn't write all of the characters right? Lead Writer just means he has the final say in most matters dealing with the plot.

And we are not discussing characters, but main plot. I can imagine that LEAD WRITER has something to say about that at least.

[marshalleck]

He could get better results by posting details to a fanfic group on the BSN.

[Babli]

mrsph wrote...

Even then, I assume he just wrote a summary of the plot he wanted and mailed it to Dark Horse. Which is what a lot of writers who aren't experienced with writing comics do, I believe.

But Mac Walters is comic writer.

JKoopman wrote...

@darknoon5

Show me one poll, or even one person, who says they prefer ME2's story
to ME1's. ME2's story being lackluster and disjointed was something
that was universally panned in virtually every review following ME2's
release.

And yes, I'd say "trainwreck" adequately describes what passes for ME2's over-arching story.

The
trainwreck starts right off the bat with Shepard dying and being
resurrected with space-magic, then forcing Shepard into service with
Cerberus with virtually no opportunity for protest despite Cerberus
being set up as space-al-Qaeda in ME1 and the default Shepard's origin
being that Cerberus is directly responsible for the murder of your
entire squad on Akuze (something which Shepard is never even able to
mention when speaking with the Illusive Man).

The trend then
continues with old allies suddenly being struck blind, deaf and dumb in
the form of the new Council and Alliance turning their backs on you
ostensibly for no other reason than because Shepard is working with
Cerberus (despite the given rationale for Shepard working with Cerberus
being that the Council and Alliance have turned their backs on you, so
it's kind of a circuitous "which came first" scenario) as well as
Shepard finally being reunited with his/her ME1 love interest on
Horizon only to have them be struck with such a case of mind-boggling
irrationality that they try to blame the abductions on Cerberus
(apparently forgetting all about the Collector attack that they
witnessed not 5 minutes earlier) and to have Shepard be railroaded by
artificial incompetency to the point where--despite being able to
successfully persuade Saren to kill himself in ME1--the best
response you can come up with after being called a traitor to the
Alliance is to say "Well, I can see you're not going to listen to
reason" before your former BFF/lover storms off (but they send you a
nice email later, so it's all good, right?).

Then there's whole
"humans are more genetically diverse than all other races in the galaxy
because we have a wide range of appearances and intelligence
levels...even though every other race in the galaxy has idiots and
geniuses and a range of different appearances as well...including the
asari who can randomize their genetic code with that of other species
and should then clearly be the most diverse by far...but we're
different/better because...actually, just don't think about it too much
and nod your head in understanding" angle that the game tries to push
on us no less than three times.

But where things REALLY
get bad is on the Collector Base where, in the space of 10 minutes, Mac
Walters successfully takes one of the coolest sci-fi enemies of the
last 15 years and turns them into a running gag; first with the most
facepalming-est WTF moment that was the Baby Terminator Reaper,
and then by suddenly revealing that the Reapers are in fact
semi-organic and not purely mechanical and that Reapers "reproduce" by
melting an organic race into a gray paste that somehow preserves that race's collective consciousness and then use that organic paste to construct a new Reaper in that race's image.

ME2's
"story" was a travesty. The fact that it was also the point at which
Drew Karpyshyn took a back seat and Mac Walters became the Lead Writer
doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence that ME3's story will be any
better; which is only reinforced by the retcons and inconsistencies
present in his work on Evolution.

I've heard it said that Mac
Walters is a better writer of characters than Drew Karpyshyn, but I
find even that hard to be believe considering I found most of the
characters in ME2 to be either dry or cliches. ME1 had Tali, Garrus and
Wrex; three of the most-loved characters in the franchise. What did ME2
add? It replaced Wrex with Grunt and his stereotypical teenage angst,
added Jack and her directionless "I'm the queen badass ****"-ery, Jacob
with his PRIIIIIZE and the most awesome backstory never to be mentioned
ever, Miranda, the stereotypical hotty with daddy issues, etc. The only
two really stand-out characters were Mordin and Legion, the later
barely getting any "screen time" or development at all.

So no,
I'm not particularly fond of Mac Walters or the "new and X-treme"
direction he seems to be taking Mass Effect in. I wish BioWare would've
just left Drew in charge...

Best post ever.

[CroGamer002]

[quote]Babli wrote...

ok lets look at your points.
[quote]Mesina2 wrote...
They didn't respond to 100s of thousands of abducted humans, why would they care even more if it goes over a million then?
[/quote]
I dont know about you, but I would be concerned very much if I heard about millions of abducted humans in Terminus Systems, if I was a human living in Terminus Systems. But hey, thats just me.[/quote]

They think it's just a Alliance Propaganda to go back in Alliance Space.

[quote]And Terminus Systems ain't united and humans aren't very beloved there.
[/quote]
Another reason to leave.[/quote]

Do you even know reasons why are they there in the first place?
And a lot of people would refuse to leave their homes.
Some people may leave but without evacuation order from govorment and military to get them out most would still stay cause they don't want to leave and/or ain't able to leave on their own and/or don't know how to live in other place.

[quote]
And Alliance can't go to the Terminus Systems with their ships otherwise they would start a war( hinting ME1).
[/quote]
But after Horizon they would give these defence towers to every big colony out there. Do you seriously think that Alliance would these abductions let just go? They were ALREADY investigating it.
[/quote]

They are investigating but they didn't find out that Collectors are involved until Shepard started to investigate too.
Plus Horizon was a trap.


Also my other points you ignored:

[quote]Mesina2 wrote...

[quote]Babli wrote...

[quote]Mesina2 wrote...
So, why am I pwned?[/quote]
Because
Collectors plot doesnt make any sense. They would never finish that
Repaer, because they wouldnt abduct enough humans, because they had only
that one ship. They would be dead before they would reach our Solar
system.

So they would be stopped without Shepard because Alliance was already investigating it.

Seriously,
what do you think they would accomplish with that one ship against
Alliance fleet? Nothing, thus main plot of ME 2 doesnt make sense.

And
killing Shepard was just cheap plot device, its never mentioned again
after we leave Cerberus base except "I got better" lines.

And "take your whole team to shuttle while Collectors will take our crew" scene is just plain stupid.[/quote]


They would get enough humans eventually?


Let's see what did Alliance found out when Shepard was done at Freedoms Progress? Jacksh*t!

What after Horizon? They did but if Shepard didn't show op there they would still know jacksh*t and may even lost Ashley/Kaidan.


Also it was mentioned few times about Shepard's death and only once "I got better" you ignorant!
Let's see when:

With Tali on Freedoms Progress
With Miranda on Normandy
With Jacob on Normandy
With Ashley/Kaidan.
With Jack in last step for romance.
With Illusive Man before Freedoms Progress and if you destroyed Collector Base.

Also with Liara in LotSB.


And almost everyone you meet though you died.

And what's the point of talking about anyway?[/quote]

[Evil Johnny 666]

Now that's just ridiculous... how can I even have hopes for ME3 when they ****ed up so much the lore? That's depressing.

[Babli]

Mesina2 wrote...

I disagree with everything and you will disagree with everything I´ll say.
Since neither of us will convince another about their truth I dont see much point in continuing this conversation.
Heh "much point" nevermind.

[Whatever42]

ReconTeam wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
Actually, the writing in the whole series sucks. I think its fair that we direct our rage at all of Bioware for producing such awful writing and games.

So your not a fan of the games and are just here to bother everybody else or something?

Absolutely. I am absolutely crushed that every Bioware game is not exactly like Baldur's Gate (BG2 was a horrible betrayal of that series) and so will appear on every thread complaining about everything from the colour of the wallpaper to Tali's accent.