602 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
ME2 has only one retcon, aka thermal ammo.

That's not a retcon thanks to the codex entry.

Well actually, it still is, because supposedly the geth weapons were using them all along.  You can loot pulse rifles in ME1 and yet they don't need thermal clips, so...

It's a pretty minor one though.

[Zulu_DFA]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ME2 has only one retcon, aka thermal ammo.

That's not a retcon thanks to the codex entry.

The Codex entry makes no sense, because of Jacob's loyalty mission, Jessie, Shepard's first line upon awakenning, and other so called "plot holes". It also makes no sense, because no military in their right mind would trade virtually unlimited ammo for such crap as "thermal clips". It also makes no sense, because neither the Geth, nor Shepard's squadmates ever run out of ammo. Personally I have considere the thermal ammo some kind of Shepard's post Lazarus project delusion, until I modded my coalesced.ini to have unlimited ammo back, thus effectively un-retconning this ammo bullsh*t.

So this Codex entry is just one of the finest examples of how the writers have to deal with some other department's lunacy, instead of polishing the dialogues.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 février 2011 - 04:18 .

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ME2 has only one retcon, aka thermal ammo.

That's not a retcon thanks to the codex entry.

The Codex entry makes no sense, becasue of Jacob's lyalty mission, .

Gameplay convenience and/or lazy level design.

Jessie, Shepard's first line upon awakenning, and other so called "plot holes"..

Genuine, but small, errors.

It also makes no sense, because no military in their right mind would trade virtually unlimited ammo for such crap as "thermal clips"..

Subject of endless, unproductive debate.  Therefore, I'm ignoring it.

It also makes no sense, becasue neither the Geth, nor Shepard's squadmates ever run out of ammo..

Both done for gameplay purposes.  Same as everyone as being able to spam biotics and not collapsing from exhaustion left and right.

[nevar00]

I guess they could argue that the thermal clips make for better accuracy... considering the accuracy of the weapons in ME 1 sucked ass. I did like them better though, but it really is a minor thing.

[Guanxii]

 Having read both issues of Mass Effect: Evolution i'm perfectly happy with the story so far and would encourage those of you on the fence to not let the vocal minority dissuade you from judging the comics for yourselves.

The only major persistent problem I have with the the comic so far is the rather inconsistent artwork from page to page; mainly in the way the two graphic artists draw the same characters.

There is no "retcon" in my mind. General Williams was forced to surrender and surrender he did. Politics ahead of human interest. Pretty much exactly as I expected. Ashley was right, he was scapegoated on the political alter but he was disillusioned long before the end of the war. It makes sense that he played a role in helping to give Jack Harper his first break. It seems his plight was partly responsible for inspiration for Cerberus.

Also we were told third-hand before that Saren's brother died on Shanxi, but again that appears to have just been a misconception which is perfectly fine in my book. He may well yet die in the events surrounding Shanxi which is at best basically arguing semantics (presumably at the hand of the Illusive Man).

Insofar as i'm aware Walters has made it plain to the reader that the turians know little more of the true nature of the object than the humans, other than to name it. Whether or not they have their own theories (theological or otherwise) is beside the point.

As for the references to the "terminus systems" and Illium and it's designation.  While the Batarians have yet to become outlaws of the council over colonisation rights with humans in the traverse and to relegated or banished to the "terminus systems", there has and will always be areas outside of council space known as the terminus systems. Whether that term had taken on political connotations at that point is unknown. "Terminus systems" if I'm not mistaken is a term relating to being outside of the incorporated network of mapped relays within citadel space, with each point outside being a terminal destination as it were.

TI.M.'s exposure to the mysterious reaper teach is as predictable as it is interesting to watch unfold. It explains his weary outlook and wisdom beyond his years albeit rather too conveniently.

My other main complaint is the admission that non of the characters are particularly compelling but what would you expect from two twenty page long comic books.

My advice would be to check it out and see for yourselves because - ignore it as you may, like it, don't like it - this material is cannon sanctioned by BioWare and at worst mildly entertaining. If you are interested in Cerberus or Ashley there is something here for you. Certainly not the trainwreck some of you are making it out to be.

Modifié par Guanxii, 21 février 2011 - 12:56 .

[Zulu_DFA]

What I really dislike about the comic is that both TIM and Saren are made to be "superheroes" in the classical sense of the word: guys with super-natural abilities magically acquired through contact with a weird thingy.

This only detracts from the fascination with the both characters, since it's now not like they got to be what they've been due to their own innate qualities.

But I suppose, that's just me.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 février 2011 - 02:33 .

[ianmcdonald]

I think a lot of you are confusing seeing things in a different light with things being retconned.

[Ragnarok521]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

What I really dislike about the comic is that both TIM and Saren are made to be "superheroes" in the classical sense of the word: guys with super-natural abilities magically acquired through contact with a weird thingy.

This only detracts from the fascination with the both characters since it's now not like they got to be what they've been due to their own innate qualities.

But I suppose, that's just me.

Kind of in agreement here. On a similar note, I always thought his augmented eyes were a good way to show his dedication to Cerberus and the cause of human advancement in the way that he had augmented them to work more efficiently (that's how I first imagined he got them anyway), but with this new explanation...eh.

Modifié par Ragnarok521, 21 février 2011 - 02:20 .

[Elite Midget]

It's a Prequel Comic.



You really thought they wouldn't enforce the view that TIM is an older Renegade Shepard and that they would retcon things?



It's just like the Star Wars Prequel Movies.

[Iakus]

Elite Midget wrote...

It's a Prequel Comic.

You really thought they wouldn't enforce the view that TIM is an older Renegade Shepard and that they would retcon things?

It's just like the Star Wars Prequel Movies.

Please, please, don't suggest that what makes Shepard "unique" is his/her midichlorian count!

[Urazz]

Nekemekem wrote...

The point here isn't so much that the comic is over simplified and badly written, it's meant to be easy enough to grasp if you just pick it up in the comic book store for a fun sci-fi story (again, as stated in the podcast).
Hence why everything is explained to the reader with all the grace of a sledgehammer.
This was the same case when it came to the other comics Redemption, Inquisition (gives me a headache just by mentioning it) and the Genesis comic for PS3.

If you listen to the podcast you can clearly hear the lead writer explain what some of the thought behind Evolution is in particular. This is the cause for concern. Mass Effect 3 won't be as "dumbed down" in terms of script as the comics are, of course not. It may still however continue on the course of being inconsistent just as Mass Effect 2 was, coming into it with what we've learned from the base lore that was written for the series, expanded with Karpyshyn's novels.

Which is kinda...sucky, I'm one of the bajillions that loved the story in Mass Effect 1 and the insight the novels gave us into the galactic community. I think Karpyshyn did a fantastic job and I don't personally think it's being followed up very good at the moment.

I don't like the way the turians are being portrayed in Evolution, but regardless of the race possibly being up to no good, Evolution is a serious disservice to TIM's character, in my personal opinion. He filled a very good role as the perfect leader for a very well organized and funded band of terrorists. I can fully support that he's had a bad run in with them there alien-folks in his past, he's been around since day one of first contact, which gives him a lot of insight and understandable politics. But...this? Hot mess if you ask me.

edit: typo derp.

Problem is that would anyone that hasn't played Mass Effect 1 and/or 2 even read the comic?  That was plain idiocy right there designing it for those that aren't familiar with Mass Effect 1 or 2.  The novels were designed in this fashion as you would pretty much be completely lost if you haven't played Mass Effect 1 at least so you know what is what in the universe.

This does get me a bit worried about Mass Effect 3 but who knows maybe there were limits to what they could do with only a few issues of a comic and weren't really into writing it.

[Kusy]

Urazz wrote...
Problem is that would anyone that hasn't played Mass Effect 1 and/or 2 even read the comic?  That was plain idiocy right there designing it for those that aren't familiar with Mass Effect 1 or 2.  The novels were designed in this fashion as you would pretty much be completely lost if you haven't played Mass Effect 1 at least so you know what is what in the universe.

The whole idea about making Mass Effect 2 "more apealing to new players" was idiocy. I'm not an elitist, no sir. I think that everyone should experience as much as anyone other. But seriously, when you are proclaiming in every possible interview or public statment that you are making a trilogy, something doesn't add up when you also say one of your main goals was to make the game more apealing to people who never ever seen the previous one. It just doesn't though I imagine this was more due to bullshit on the Electronic Arts - Microsoft line.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 21 février 2011 - 03:57 .

[Gleym]

Just wait. Mass Effect 3 will dismiss everything from the previous games and reboot the storyline yet again with a brief recap of previous events in a prologue fashion, and nothing but emails. That way, Kusy, the game will be completely accessible to people who've never played either of the first two games. And then fans of ME3 will come in and start acting like the ME2 fans are elitist idiots for being unhappy about the changes made. ME1 fans will have given up and moved on to greener pastures.

Modifié par Gleym, 21 février 2011 - 05:40 .

[Omega-202]

So Walters took a PERFECTLY well written backstory for a logical "first contact" and bastardized it into "hey this was way more super important and deceiving than we knew"!!!

What was wrong with the perfectly logical first contact story we had? What more likely way for first contact with extraterrestrials was there than to have a giant misunderstanding over intentions and a communication barrier? But no!!! God forbid there wasn't some huge suspension of disbelief forcing subplot about people having knowledge they couldn't possibly have and completely illogical actions taken in light of the fact that humanity and the rest of the galactic community were explicitly ignorant of each other?

This is just another example of lazy, untalented writing. Its another form of the crap "everyone knows everyone" syndrome that flooded ME2. Not everything has to have some extra hidden side to it and the same characters don't have to keep popping up as giant Mary Sues.

If they wanted to tell a story about the Turians discovering some Reaper artifact on a human controlled planet, they could have done that WITHOUT destroying so much perfectly good canon. There was no reason to drag Desolas into this, there was no reason to force so much suspension of disbelief down our throats and there was no reason to make TIM/Jack into Renegade Shepard V 0.2. He could have been his own distinct character, Desolas could have died during the tragic death of a faceless soldier in a war started over a misunderstanding and we wouldn't have had to deal with all of the unreasonable crap that we're forced to believe about the Turians and their knowledge of Reaper tech and humanity at that point in the time line.

[JoePilot]

Omega-202 wrote...

So Walters took a PERFECTLY well written backstory for a logical "first contact" and bastardized it into "hey this was way more super important and deceiving than we knew"!!!
What was wrong with the perfectly logical first contact story we had? What more likely way for first contact with extraterrestrials was there than to have a giant misunderstanding over intentions and a communication barrier? But no!!! God forbid there wasn't some huge suspension of disbelief forcing subplot about people having knowledge they couldn't possibly have and completely illogical actions taken in light of the fact that humanity and the rest of the galactic community were explicitly ignorant of each other?
This is just another example of lazy, untalented writing. Its another form of the crap "everyone knows everyone" syndrome that flooded ME2. Not everything has to have some extra hidden side to it and the same characters don't have to keep popping up as giant Mary Sues.
If they wanted to tell a story about the Turians discovering some Reaper artifact on a human controlled planet, they could have done that WITHOUT destroying so much perfectly good canon. There was no reason to drag Desolas into this, there was no reason to force so much suspension of disbelief down our throats and there was no reason to make TIM/Jack into Renegade Shepard V 0.2. He could have been his own distinct character, Desolas could have died during the tragic death of a faceless soldier in a war started over a misunderstanding and we wouldn't have had to deal with all of the unreasonable crap that we're forced to believe about the Turians and their knowledge of Reaper tech and humanity at that point in the time line.

Welcome to the support group.  There's coffee and donuts in the back.

I agree with everything you've said, but at this point I don't even care enough to complain anymore.  As someone earlier in this thread so astutely observed, the original canon wasn't XTREME enough for Mac Walters (and/or EA, Bioware, etc. - just to spread the blame around).  They're going to run roughshod over ME to get it as much attention from idiots as possible, quality be damned, and they don't care what we say, becau$e $ome word$ $peak louder than other$.  Catch my drift? 

I warned everyone when I first beat ME2 that the story had taken a sharp turn away from plausible, but everyone was distracted by the gameplay.  I hate being right.

Modifié par JoePilot, 21 février 2011 - 05:59 .

[marshalleck]

Gleym wrote...

Just wait. Mass Effect 3 will dismiss everything from the previous games and reboot the storyline yet again with a brief recap of previous events in a prologue fashion, and nothing but emails. That way, Kusy, the game will be completely accessible to people who've never played either of the first two games. And then fans of ME3 will come in and start acting like the ME2 fans are elitist idiots for being unhappy about the changes made. ME1 fans will have given up and moved on to greener pastures.

The final chapter of a trilogy is an EXCELLENT entry point to the series! 



Anyways, at least we will always have ME1. And if you really enjoyed ME1 and haven't seen it yet, watch the Babylon 5 series. It inspired much of the first game and avoided the juvenile comic book garbage of ME2. And there's very, very little of the "humans are special" crap. It does a much better job of showing all the different species as saints and sinners, and individual characters as complex and/or conflicted without all the daddy issues.

Modifié par marshalleck, 21 février 2011 - 06:08 .

[Walker White]

marshalleck wrote...

And if you really enjoyed ME1 and haven't seen it yet, watch the Babylon 5 series. 

Ah yes.  Another storyline that was supposed to have been completely plotted in advance, but everyone knows actually was not.  And which completely fell apart at the end (e.g. half-way through season 4).

[Uhh.. Jonah]

WTF. I'm just going to pretend that this comic never happened. Gooday.

[Arijharn]

I just wish they didn't shrink the mass effect universe down by making shanxi about some reaper technology.

[roflchoppaz]

Evolution ending. I'm telling you.

[kidbd15]

Guanxii wrote...

 Having read both issues of Mass Effect: Evolution i'm perfectly happy with the story so far and would encourage those of you on the fence to not let the vocal minority dissuade you from judging the comics for yourselves.

The only major persistent problem I have with the the comic so far is the rather inconsistent artwork from page to page; mainly in the way the two graphic artists draw the same characters.

There is no "retcon" in my mind. General Williams was forced to surrender and surrender he did. Politics ahead of human interest. Pretty much exactly as I expected. Ashley was right, he was scapegoated on the political alter but he was disillusioned long before the end of the war. It makes sense that he played a role in helping to give Jack Harper his first break. It seems his plight was partly responsible for inspiration for Cerberus.

Also we were told third-hand before that Saren's brother died on Shanxi, but again that appears to have just been a misconception which is perfectly fine in my book. He may well yet die in the events surrounding Shanxi which is at best basically arguing semantics (presumably at the hand of the Illusive Man).

Insofar as i'm aware Walters has made it plain to the reader that the turians know little more of the true nature of the object than the humans, other than to name it. Whether or not they have their own theories (theological or otherwise) is beside the point.

As for the references to the "terminus systems" and Illium and it's designation.  While the Batarians have yet to become outlaws of the council over colonisation rights with humans in the traverse and to relegated or banished to the "terminus systems", there has and will always be areas outside of council space known as the terminus systems. Whether that term had taken on political connotations at that point is unknown. "Terminus systems" if I'm not mistaken is a term relating to being outside of the incorporated network of mapped relays within citadel space, with each point outside being a terminal destination as it were.

TI.M.'s exposure to the mysterious reaper teach is as predictable as it is interesting to watch unfold. It explains his weary outlook and wisdom beyond his years albeit rather too conveniently.

My other main complaint is the admission that non of the characters are particularly compelling but what would you expect from two twenty page long comic books.

My advice would be to check it out and see for yourselves because - ignore it as you may, like it, don't like it - this material is cannon sanctioned by BioWare and at worst mildly entertaining. If you are interested in Cerberus or Ashley there is something here for you. Certainly not the trainwreck some of you are making it out to be.

This.

[Terror_K]

My main issue with the two comics thus far is that they're only serving to make the ME universe feel small once again, kind of like ME2 did, but to a greater degree. TIM, General Williams, Saren and his brother, etc. all being linked like this... it just makes everything feel overly connected and convenient, and then they go to Illium, a place we all already know from the second game. Is it too much to ask to actually explore something new and have some new characters?