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[Zulu_DFA]

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

There was NOTHING in ME1 that so much as hinted at the Reapers being partially organic; and in fact it was explicitly stated on more than one occassion that they were purely mechanical.

Except the Leviathan of Dis. At the time the idea was dismissed, because there was nothing else in the game to support the notion that the Reapers were made of somebody's DNA. But as of ME2 we have this Baby-Mega-T-800, so now nothing prohibits the Leviathan from being confirmed as Sovereign, so the chances are the Reapers have always been "made of organics". It is, of course, lame, but this doesn't make it a retcon.

The Leviathan of Dis couldn't have been Sovereign. The timelines/locations don't match, and there's also the fact that the Leviathan was, ya know, a corpse ("the remains of a genetically-engineered starship" doesn't really sound like Sovereign to me).

The Leviathan of Dis was just an easter-egg referrence to the living starships from Farscape which, coincidentally, were also called 'Leviathans'.

Pay attantion:

Leviathan. 2160. Batarians. Took. It.

Sovereign. 2165. Batarians. Study. It.

...And, moving on to part two, does "the remains of a genetically-engineered starship" sound anything at all like an intact and fully-functional Reaper?

Never mind that Reapers aren't "genetically-engineered". Genetic engineering implies a living organic creature. Miranda is genetically-engineered. Sovereign is built, albeit out of an organic-composit material.

You may want to tell all that to the sloppy Salarians, who had failed to take more than one glimpse of that thing, before... [move to Part One].

[JKoopman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

There was NOTHING in ME1 that so much as hinted at the Reapers being partially organic; and in fact it was explicitly stated on more than one occassion that they were purely mechanical.

Except the Leviathan of Dis. At the time the idea was dismissed, because there was nothing else in the game to support the notion that the Reapers were made of somebody's DNA. But as of ME2 we have this Baby-Mega-T-800, so now nothing prohibits the Leviathan from being confirmed as Sovereign, so the chances are the Reapers have always been "made of organics". It is, of course, lame, but this doesn't make it a retcon.

The Leviathan of Dis couldn't have been Sovereign. The timelines/locations don't match, and there's also the fact that the Leviathan was, ya know, a corpse ("the remains of a genetically-engineered starship" doesn't really sound like Sovereign to me).

The Leviathan of Dis was just an easter-egg referrence to the living starships from Farscape which, coincidentally, were also called 'Leviathans'.

Pay attantion:

Leviathan. 2160. Batarians. Took. It.

Sovereign. 2165. Batarians. Study. It.

...And, moving on to part two, does "the remains of a genetically-engineered starship" sound anything at all like an intact and fully-functional Reaper?

Never mind that Reapers aren't "genetically-engineered". Genetic engineering implies a living organic creature. Miranda is genetically-engineered. Sovereign is built, albeit out of an organic-composit material.

You may want to tell all that to the sloppy Salarians, who had failed to take more than one glimpse of that thing, before... [move to Part One].

Very well. As the final nail in the coffin of speculation, Sovereign was discovered by Edan Had'dah, a private Batarian entrepeneur and businessman, on an "unnamed planet" near the Perseus Veil, was kept in secret by Edan Had'dah and remained on that planet for study by Dr. Shu Qian.

The Leviathan of Dis was discovered (as the name suggests) on the planet Dis in the Hades Gamma cluster, clear on the other side of the galaxy from the Perseus Veil, and it was claimed by the Batarian Hegemony and carted off within a year of it's discovery by a Dreadnaught.

There is no way that the Leviathan of Dis is Sovereign.

Modifié par JKoopman, 22 février 2011 - 03:54 .

[Ellestor]

Saying that the Reapers are biomechanical is indistinguishable from saying that they're biological. Is that really the word EDI used? Biomechanics is just the study of the mechanics of biology, so calling a life form biomechanical is really redundant.

Modifié par Ellestor, 22 février 2011 - 04:01 .

[JKoopman]

Ellestor wrote...

Saying that the Reapers are biomechanical is indistinguishable from saying that they're biological. Biomechanics is the study of the mechanics of biology....

True. We should really be using the term cybernetic. I think most people just use bio-mechanical as an abbreviation of biological-mechanical; bio-mechanical also being distinctive from biomechanics.

Modifié par JKoopman, 22 février 2011 - 04:07 .

[Zulu_DFA]

JKoopman wrote...

Very well. As the final nail in the coffin of speculation

Your nail seems a bit rusty, pal. Because "remained on the same unnamed planet" could have easily been a cover up story. You see, Sovereign had to get there somehow, unless you're saying that it grew there like a tree.

Anyway, just in case, prepare to cry "RETCON", if ME3 proves it to be true.

[Papa John0]

From what I've read on the mass effect wiki, there's no confirmation that the artifact was a Reaper artifact. If anything, it was likely more like a Prothean beacon. It killed Ben because he was of a lesser mind (which was established in Mass Effect 1 as possible following Eden Prime). Saren having husks already--well, that part gets me.

The rest makes sense though. Ash's grandfather was forced to surrender, resented it and the Alliance's policies so he quit. He gets blacklisted in the history books by the Alliance and the blame is shoveled on him for Shanxi's surrender. Saren's brother will likely die by the hand of Jack Harper in one of the next two issues, and so can be attributed to the First Contact War.

The only thing that really sticks out is the fact Saren already has husks before finding Sovereign and that human beings are visiting Illium just weeks after the First Contact War and the discovery of the Citadel Council.

Modifié par Papa John0, 22 février 2011 - 04:32 .

[Whatever42]

Here is an interesting theory...

Bioware is in Edmonton Canada. The Prime Minister here is Stephen Harper. Harper is very well known for being controlling, scheming, and ruthless (and I like him!). Now here we have TIM's real name being Harper.

Coincidence? I think not.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 22 février 2011 - 04:39 .

[Omega-202]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Very well. As the final nail in the coffin of speculation

Your nail seems a bit rusty, pal. Because "remained on the same unnamed planet" could have easily been a cover up story. You see, Sovereign had to get there somehow, unless you're saying that it grew there like a tree.

Anyway, just in case, prepare to cry "RETCON", if ME3 proves it to be true.

You're promoting MORE cover up stories?  Why not just go back to ME1 and have a disclaimer during the opening credits that says:

"Everything you learn about the Mass Effect fictional universe is actually a cover up story.  At no point during the plot will you learn the truth behind anything.  Things that are presented as concrete facts by trusted characters, omniscient voice overs and in-game Codex texts are subject to retcon, revelation as a lie or outright disregard.  We don't respect you."

In regards to the topic at hand, the Leviathan and Soveriegn don't jive in terms of location, description or individuals involved.  

They were discovered in two very different systems, they've been described with very different details and the "studying" party were both Batarians but one was a private interest and the other was the head government.  

But I wouldn't put it past Mac to say it was all a lie.  Might as well shoot for the stars and say that the entire Reaper invasion was a lie.  If he's going to start retconning, why stop at ME1?  Go back and rewrite Drew's work in KotOR while you're at it.  

[Zulu_DFA]

Why do I smell the same odor in the "Retcon" wind as in the "We hate TIM" wind?



And why do you guys think Drew hates TIM and Mac loves him? I, for one, am under the impression that Drew, in fact, loves TIM a lot more than Mac does.

[Whatever42]

Well, remember that Drew wrote the Darth Bane series. He does write darkside pretty well.

[didymos1120]

Papa John0 wrote...

From what I've read on the mass effect wiki, there's no confirmation that the artifact was a Reaper artifact. If anything, it was likely more like a Prothean beacon.

Looks nothing like one, other than standing upright.  Does resemble Reaper devices.  Also: turned turians into Reaper avatars (they're not husks.  They talk for one thing, they're physically more powerful, and they go to the trouble of concealing themselves in robes).  Besides which, nobody knows about the Reapers (TIM's had some vague dreams, that's about it)  in the comic, much less ever mentions the name, so there's no way for any of the characters to say "That right there is a Reaper device."  That sort of confirmation is rather unlikely to happen. 

Saren having husks already--well, that part gets me.

He doesn't "have" them.  They just sorta came along with the device when Saren's brother recovered it. Or rather, they want to go where the device is.  In fact, they're what's left of the crew of the ship the device was on before it crashed out in the Shanxi boondocks.  Saren also has given no indication that he has the least clue what they are.  He just thinks they're his brothers new, weird bodyguards who aren't all that good at their supposed job.  I mean, he knows the device is responsible for changing them, but that's about as far as it goes.

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 février 2011 - 05:17 .

[snakeboy86]

this sounds so dumb....jesus this is terminator 3 all over again<_<

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

Also: turned turians into Reaper avatars (they're not husks.  They talk for one thing, they're physically more powerful, and they go to the trouble of concealing themselves in robes).

Seems there is no distinct borderline between them. Definitely those things around Desolas aren't general husk infantry (so to say), homing on everything that breathes. But they don't appear anything like Grayson in Retribution or Saren in ME1 either. I'd propose that we call them "cultists". I think we might actually see more of them, when we touch down on Earth in ME3.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 février 2011 - 05:34 .

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Also: turned turians into Reaper avatars (they're not husks.  They talk for one thing, they're physically more powerful, and they go to the trouble of concealing themselves in robes).

Seems there is no distinct borderline between them. Definitely those things around Desolas aren't general husk infantry (so to say), homing on everything that breathes. But they don't appear anything like Grayson in Retribution or Saren in ME1 either.

I don't know.  I thought they matched up fairly closely to what description we got of Grayson after he'd been implanted for a while. Grayson kinda did the robe thing too.   It's comic art, so of course it's a bit stylized, but still.  As far as Saren...either he was still fairly early in the process or he wasn't a normal conversion.  I always had the impression he was sort of a rush job, done with somewhat cruder, but quicker, methods. 

[Gibb_Shepard]

and this guys is the lead write for ME3? Niiice.

[didymos1120]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

and this guys is the lead write for ME3? Niiice.

Where have you been?  He was lead writer on ME2 as well.  Actually, from what I understand, he was co-lead with Drew for awhile earlier in development, until Drew went to work on SW:TOR. 

ETA: Yeah, Drew was co-lead: 

http://meforums.biow...11188&forum=144

Which of course means he helped come up with ME2's main plot too, since that's the first thing they work out.

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 février 2011 - 06:17 .

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Also: turned turians into Reaper avatars (they're not husks.  They talk for one thing, they're physically more powerful, and they go to the trouble of concealing themselves in robes).

Seems there is no distinct borderline between them. Definitely those things around Desolas aren't general husk infantry (so to say), homing on everything that breathes. But they don't appear anything like Grayson in Retribution or Saren in ME1 either.

I don't know.  I thought they matched up fairly closely to what description we got of Grayson after he'd been implanted for a while. Grayson kinda did the robe thing too.   It's comic art, so of course it's a bit stylized, but still.  As far as Saren...either he was still fairly early in the process or he wasn't a normal conversion.  I always had the impression he was sort of a rush job, done with somewhat cruder, but quicker, methods. 

Grayson acquired biotic abilities, and I doubt it was just the Red Sand, but retained enough mental faculties for  the Reapers to exploit to make him a "solo operative". These cultists lack biotics and seem quite dumb. And I can't see any indication that the Reapers are controlling them. Which leads me to think, that they are mostly degraded in the "husk" direction, with only a few traits of sentience remaining.

Saren was implanted after Virmire with the "direct control" override - the same as each Collector is implanted, but he had those glowing eyes from the beginning, as well as some other bits. Which leads me to think, he is yet to be exposed to the Arca Monolith directly, and undergo limited trasformation (more extensive than that - eyes only - of TIM, but less extensive than Ben Hislop and the Turian cultists). Apparently, he fully retains his free will and mental faculties until the contact with Sovereign, when he is slowly indoctrinated like any other non-implanted organic.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 février 2011 - 06:29 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

didymos1120 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

and this guys is the lead write for ME3? Niiice.

Where have you been?  He was lead writer on ME2 as well.  Actually, from what I understand, he was co-lead with Drew for awhile earlier in development, until Drew went to work on SW:TOR. 

ETA: Yeah, Drew was co-lead: 

http://meforums.biow...11188&forum=144

Which of course means he helped come up with ME2's main plot too, since that's the first thing they work out.

.....Yeah he was the lead writer of ME2, and it showed.

[JKoopman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Very well. As the final nail in the coffin of speculation

Your nail seems a bit rusty, pal. Because "remained on the same unnamed planet" could have easily been a cover up story. You see, Sovereign had to get there somehow, unless you're saying that it grew there like a tree.

Anyway, just in case, prepare to cry "RETCON", if ME3 proves it to be true.

That makes no sense. A cover-up of what, for whom and why? Just because?

And I'm sure Sovereign settled on the uncharted planet himself to hibernate following his failed attempt to manipulate the rachni hundreds of years prior. Why do you assume he had to have been moved there by the batarians?

Modifié par JKoopman, 22 février 2011 - 06:39 .

[Zulu_DFA]

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Very well. As the final nail in the coffin of speculation

Your nail seems a bit rusty, pal. Because "remained on the same unnamed planet" could have easily been a cover up story. You see, Sovereign had to get there somehow, unless you're saying that it grew there like a tree.

Anyway, just in case, prepare to cry "RETCON", if ME3 proves it to be true.

That makes no sense. A cover-up of what, for whom and why? Just because?

Makes perfect sense. I'm a Batarian (we run slavery) who just sneaked a piece of interesting something from under the nostrils of Salarians (they run STG). Where do you think I'm going to stash it? In my back yard? Wrong. I'm going to stash it someplace where even the STG and Specters don't go, and, more importantly, where they think nobody else in their right mind goes. The Perseus Veil.

JKoopman wrote...

And I'm sure Sovereign settled on the uncharted planet himself to hibernate following his failed attempt to manipulate the rachni hundreds of years prior. Why do you assume he had to have been moved there by the batarians?

First, let's keep the Rachni out of this. Secondly, one planet is just as good as another. And thirdly, see above: nobody in their right mind goes to the Perseus Veil, which means it'd be a plot hole, if Edan's people just stumbled upon Sovereign there while on a space picnic.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 février 2011 - 07:10 .

[JKoopman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Very well. As the final nail in the coffin of speculation

Your nail seems a bit rusty, pal. Because "remained on the same unnamed planet" could have easily been a cover up story. You see, Sovereign had to get there somehow, unless you're saying that it grew there like a tree.

Anyway, just in case, prepare to cry "RETCON", if ME3 proves it to be true.

That makes no sense. A cover-up of what, for whom and why? Just because?

Makes perfect sense. I'm a Batarian (we run slavery) who just sneaked a piece of interesting something from under the nostrils of Salarians (they run STG). Where do you think I'm going to stash it? In my back yard? Wrong. I'm going to stash it someplace where even the STG and Specters don't go, and, more importantly, where they think nobody else in their right mind goes. The Perseus Veil.

...And then just rebury it on some random chunk of rock for Edan Had'dah to find and take posession of? Wouldn't it make more sense to, ya know, take it back to their homeworld or to some secret base for study? Going a little out on a limb there, aren't we? Isn't the more logical explanation that they simply aren't the same thing?

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

And I'm sure Sovereign settled on the uncharted planet himself to hibernate following his failed attempt to manipulate the rachni hundreds of years prior. Why do you assume he had to have been moved there by the batarians?

First, let's keep the Rachni out of this. Secondly, one planet is just as good as another. And thirdly, see above: nobody in their right mind goes to the Perseus Veil, which means it'd be a plot hole, if Edan's people just stumbled upon Sovereign there while on a space picnic.

Near the Perseus Veil. Not in the Perseus Veil. The Attican Traverse where Eden Prime is located is near the Veil. Is that a plot hole?

Modifié par JKoopman, 22 février 2011 - 07:20 .

[Zulu_DFA]

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Very well. As the final nail in the coffin of speculation

Your nail seems a bit rusty, pal. Because "remained on the same unnamed planet" could have easily been a cover up story. You see, Sovereign had to get there somehow, unless you're saying that it grew there like a tree.

Anyway, just in case, prepare to cry "RETCON", if ME3 proves it to be true.

That makes no sense. A cover-up of what, for whom and why? Just because?

Makes perfect sense. I'm a Batarian (we run slavery) who just sneaked a piece of interesting something from under the nostrils of Salarians (they run STG). Where do you think I'm going to stash it? In my back yard? Wrong. I'm going to stash it someplace where even the STG and Specters don't go, and, more importantly, where they think nobody else in their right mind goes. The Perseus Veil.

...And then just rebury it on some random chunk of rock for Edan Had'dah to find and take posession of? Wouldn't it make more sense to, ya know, take it back to their homeworld or to some secret base for study? Going a little out on a limb there, aren't we? Isn't the more logical explanation that they simply aren't the same thing?

Next time you find a strange thing looking like a piece of advanced military hardware in the street, don't forget to bring it home. You may win the Darwin's Prize. Even before the FBI knocks at your door, looking for it.

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

And I'm sure Sovereign settled on the uncharted planet himself to hibernate following his failed attempt to manipulate the rachni hundreds of years prior. Why do you assume he had to have been moved there by the batarians?

First, let's keep the Rachni out of this. Secondly, one planet is just as good as another. And thirdly, see above: nobody in their right mind goes to the Perseus Veil, which means it'd be a plot hole, if Edan's people just stumbled upon Sovereign there while on a space picnic.

Near the Perseus Veil. Not in the Perseus Veil. The Attican Traverse where Eden Prime is located is near the Veil. Is that a plot hole?

OK.

But remember: there are indeed a few minor retcons between Revelation and ME1 (mainly about the appearence and social organization of the alien species). That's apparently due to Revelation being written before the ME lore was finalized. So this could be it also.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 février 2011 - 07:46 .

[Bluko]

Hmm while I haven't read the comic and can't be certain if what's presented here is accurate, I'm going to assume the summaries by the OP are mostly correct.

LookingGlass93 wrote...

1) Ash's grandfather didn't surrender Shanxi, nor did he leave the Alliance over that surrender. He left the Alliance because he hates aliens, including the Citadel.

Yeah... This is pretty bad. Pretty sure Gen. Williams surrendered to save human lives and because his communications were cut off. Doesn't Ashley say this herself? Unless her father lied to her, but I mean come on.  Is the Williams family genetically intolerant and xenophobic? This is just stupid, I'm sorry. As I currently understood Ashley's family dislikes aliens and Turians more so for giving their family a bad name.

LookingGlass93 wrote...

2) Saren's brother wasn't some nameless soldier that died on Shanxi, thus cementing Saren's hatred of humanity. Saren's brother was the general in charge of the invasion, and he left Shanxi still alive and well.

Well it kind of makes sense that Saren's brother would be a military officer. Though yes I believe he was supposed to have died in the first contact war. I dunno this one doesn't bother me too much since it's not something that's even explained in much detail in-game. I could see it as plausible that Saren's brother may have been killed by T.I.M. That would still be reason enough for Saren to hate humanity.

LookingGlass93 wrote...
3) At least part of the reason for Saren's brother being on Shanxi, and possibly the First Contact War itself, was to steal Reaper artifacts (yes, a high ranking turian general had at least limited knowledge of the Reapers 30 years before ME1).

Wait how do they know it's a Reaper artifact? It's not unreasonable that the Turians would look for alien artifacts as the Prothean stuff is a pretty big deal. All we know is that a Turian patrol found humans messing with a Mass Relay. Perhaps this patrol was headed for Shanxi in the first place?

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The incongruities don't stop there. Within weeks of the end of the First Contact War TIM is on Illium. He even has a conversation with someone mentioning how close they are to the Terminus Systems. No explanation of how he knew where Illium was, or how he knew what the Terminus Systems are. No explanation about language barriers or technical problems like not having an omni tool; he even at one point pilots a flying car on Illium. WTH? They literally made first contact less than a year before. For most of that time he's been a guerrila fighter on Shanxi. There's no way he could know any of this unless it was part of his "Reaper download".

Wow that is retarded.

Generally this why I don't read outside material for fictional universes. I figured the comics and novels would grate a lot with the established lore in the game. So normally I wouldn't care about this. However the fact that the lead writer for Mass Effect 3 wrote this concerns me.

This guy should know what's what. For him to trample over the established lore like this... even in a comic is bad. I had some bad feelings given the direction ME2 went in. The whole deal with Cerberus still feels like it wasn't really thought-out. I get that they trying to have a "deal with the devil" but they make Cerberus to official like what with logos, etc. everywhere. Come on this is a former Alliance Black Ops group now gone rogue. You'd think they'd have some discretion. Also the Collector plot is really unfulfilling. There's like what 3 missions that actually involve them? Basically we kill a few Collectors on Horizon, find out they're Protheans on their ship, then we kill them all at their base? I mean it works, but it'd have been nice to unravel the mystery over the course of several encounters.

And then there's the end. I don't have a problem with the Human Reapers itself as it makes sense enough.

But the idea they melt us down and use our genetic material to make the Reaper seems far-fetched and silly. I thought the Reaper's powers came from them being the culmination of many minds. Why wouldn't they just take our collective knowledge by some process like indoctrination? However the worse part is what the hell did the Reapers think they we're going to accomplish? There's no way the Collectors would be able to take enough humans without some kind of reprisal from the Alliance. And the Collector ship would have no chance against an entire fleet. Even if they could get enough Humans to complete the Human Reaper what good would it do? Sovereign already failed to take the Citadel. How would this new Reaper take on an even better defended Citadel? I can only assume the Reapers planned to re-write of all the Geth to serve them and have then attack the Citadel with the Human Reaper. Even if that would work it still seems like a huge waste of time, since this would likely take them years. Why wouldn't they just all travel by conventional means and retake the Citadel themselves? Perhaps I am missing something?

Anyways it still concerns me somewhat that Mac Walters is going to be in charge of most of the story for ME3. I have a bad feeling we're going to see a lot more retcons and inconsistencies in ME3. I also get the feeling that ME3 is going to have a fairly sub-par plot that won't live up to people's expectations. I'm sure the rest of ME3 will be fine gameplay wise, etc. But I really get the feeling the story and lore are going to suffer even more damage. Which leads me to believe that the "leaked" story details about the beings of light/benevolent creators saving us from the evil Reapers is most likely true. Not that it's horrible, but it feels a bit cliche. It would have been nice if the Reapers actually had more reasonable or noble goals other then to take over the universe. I dunno, perhaps it is too soon to speak about this.

Hopefully I'm wrong and this is just a bad comic that we can all safely forget about after ME3.

Modifié par Bluko, 22 février 2011 - 08:05 .

[JKoopman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Very well. As the final nail in the coffin of speculation

Your nail seems a bit rusty, pal. Because "remained on the same unnamed planet" could have easily been a cover up story. You see, Sovereign had to get there somehow, unless you're saying that it grew there like a tree.

Anyway, just in case, prepare to cry "RETCON", if ME3 proves it to be true.

That makes no sense. A cover-up of what, for whom and why? Just because?

Makes perfect sense. I'm a Batarian (we run slavery) who just sneaked a piece of interesting something from under the nostrils of Salarians (they run STG). Where do you think I'm going to stash it? In my back yard? Wrong. I'm going to stash it someplace where even the STG and Specters don't go, and, more importantly, where they think nobody else in their right mind goes. The Perseus Veil.

...And then just rebury it on some random chunk of rock for Edan Had'dah to find and take posession of? Wouldn't it make more sense to, ya know, take it back to their homeworld or to some secret base for study? Going a little out on a limb there, aren't we? Isn't the more logical explanation that they simply aren't the same thing?

Next time you find a strange thing looking like a piece of advanced military hardware in the street, don't forget to bring it home. You may win the Darwin's Prize. Even before the FBI knocks at your door, looking for it.

While that would be a bad idea for me personally, I'm not a rogue interstellar hegemony and the "FBI" in this particular case didn't create and doesn't own this found hardware.

Your entire argument seems to be "If everything we've been told isn't true, then I could be right." If that's the way you want to run a debate, then it's not really worth my time.

[Zulu_DFA]

Bluko wrote...

 but they make Cerberus to official like what with logos, etc. everywhere.

Not Mac Walters' fault. It's Derek Watts' fault.

Bluko wrote...

I have a bad feeling we're going to see a lot more retcons and inconsistencies in ME3.

Retcons? A few maybe, like the damn thermal clips.

Inconsistencies? Sure, all over the place, every time the Rule of Cool (see: cutscenes, art, gameplay) overrides (and overwrites) the story Mac Walters and Drew Karpyshyn have composed.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 février 2011 - 08:36 .