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[Zulu_DFA]

JKoopman wrote...

While that would be a bad idea for me personally, I'm not a rogue interstellar hegemony and the "FBI" in this particular case didn't create and doesn't own this found hardware.

At that time the Batarian Hegemony wasn't yet "rogue". Because of that, it had all the reason to believe the Council's agents would come and poke around it like it's their domain. Which they most probably did, to no avail.

[Knottedredloc]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

This topic contains spoilers for issue 2 of the Evolution miniseries. Continue at your own risk.


First of all, let me say that the story taken on it's own merits is...ok. It tries to tell the origin of TIM by exploring people and places mass effect fans are already familiar with, which is understandable. If this story existed in a vacuum it might even be a fine little addition to the franchise. The problem is it contradicts so much that came before it and strains cedibility so much that my mind is literally boggled.


To sum up some of the new information this comic gives us:

1) Ash's grandfather didn't surrender Shanxi, nor did he leave the Alliance over that surrender. He left the Alliance because he hates aliens, including the Citadel. 

2) Saren's brother wasn't some nameless soldier that died on Shanxi, thus cementing Saren's hatred of humanity. Saren's brother was the general in charge of the invasion, and he left Shanxi still alive and well.

3) At least part of the reason for Saren's brother being on Shanxi, and possibly the First Contact War itself, was to steal Reaper artifacts (yes, a high ranking turian general had at least limited knowledge of the Reapers 30 years before ME1).


So that's all surprising, given that it flatly contradicts so much of what we know from the games and books. But even the stuff that is at least theoretically consistent is...odd. TIM's being written as having a parallel story to Shepard. He's hit with a blast from an alien artifact, gets wierd visions and odd language abilities as a result, and then is given an advanced human warship to track down what it all means. He's even chasing a turian - Saren's brother, Desolas. Really? That's TIM's origin? He's renegade Shepard from 30 years ago?


The incongruities don't stop there. Within weeks of the end of the First Contact War TIM is on Illium. He even has a conversation with someone mentioning how close they are to the Terminus Systems. No explanation of how he knew where Illium was, or how he knew what the Terminus Systems are. No explanation about language barriers or technical problems like not having an omni tool; he even at one point pilots a flying car on Illium. WTH? They literally made first contact less than a year before. For most of that time he's been a guerrila fighter on Shanxi. There's no way he could know any of this unless it was part of his "Reaper download".


This comic is bizarre in it's constant disregard for continuity. The only thing it might help with is to explain some of the ME2 plot problems by saying that TIM already knew ahead of time what resources the Collectors had and who to send after them because the Reapers downloaded that information into his brain.

And the EA-ifcation of the Mass Effect Property continues unabated.

Modifié par Knottedredloc, 22 février 2011 - 05:28 .

[diskoh]

I knew within the first 5 pages of the original comic about Liara that the comics are garbage and worthy of being ignored as far as continuity goes.

[Mir5]

Knottedredloc wrote...
And the EA-ifcation of the Mass Effect Property continues unabated.

The writing has some serious issues, but c'mon, I really can't see the publishers coming around and saying "insert these stupidities into the plot". Unless they want the game to seem like it doesn't even try to take itself seriously. Guess having too much of that science in your fiction could be dangerous if you want to sell to those who might find having too much sense is nerdy or even blasphemous.

[matt-bassist]

so basically he was like *screw this* its too hard to keep with the established lore and retconned a bunch of stuff to fit into *his* story because he's lazy/a bad writer?



WOW. ME3 is screwed. Be prepared for it all to take place on Earth guys...

[Bogsnot1]

matt-bassist wrote...

so basically he was like *screw this* its too hard to keep with the established lore and retconned a bunch of stuff to fit into *his* story because he's lazy/a bad writer?

WOW. ME3 is screwed. Be prepared for it all to take place on Earth guys...

The way things are going, I wouldnt be surprised if it all takes place in one room, and all we have are flintlock pistols.

[Pacifien]

Knottedredloc wrote...
And the EA-ifcation of the Mass Effect Property continues unabated.

Good lord, the horrific nature of franchise comics is certainly not limited to the realm of EA.

[HpCriticAll]

I actually met the writer of the current series. I had a long talk about what was up with the slight inconsistencies in the comic versus what was in the games. Much of the story he was TOLD how to write. Also said that some things are different in the comics and books. But it's generally via the politics of the world that makes them different. IE, how/why Ash's grandfather actually left, the fact Turian(s) knew about reapers before "we" technically do in the game. That part actually is already known in other stories and so on.



Also I mean, writing comics or books around a game series, as versatile and has so many side paths as Mass Effect does, puts many a great complication on a writer. Such as writing the new history of say the Krogan people, who were saved by Urdnot Wrex, oh wait, he died in some peoples game. So can't use him, but he did live in other peoples, so technically we can. But we can't.



Now with how many people may or may not have died in ME2.. It will be interesting to say the least.

[sporeian]

[Omega-202]

@HpCriticAll



See, when you make statements like "I met the writer" and don't mention him by name, what convention or meet-and-greet you spoke to him at and why he would divulge details about a storyline in progress, its very hard to take you seriously. None of that adds up, ESPECIALLY since he's the head writer. Nobody tells him what to write unless it was based on scaffolding that Drew K left for him before he left to work in Austin.

But that second option is even MORE unlikely. Nothing Drew's ever written has ever been of this low quality. And I'm not seeing things through rose colored glasses, Drew's no Shakespeare and I'll be the first to admit it. The poor descriptions/vocabulary and repetitiveness of ME: Revelation should make that apparent. But if we were to draw a comparison, for all of his faults, Drew was nowhere near this uncreative and disrespectful toward canon, let alone the fact that Mac seems completely lost as to what made the ME universe stand up as something so special. The proper term isn't "realistic" but more "believable". ME 1 and most of 2 had a "believability" to it.

Yet there are huge chunks of ME2 and now this comic series that just stink of "O COME ON!!!" Things just aren't jiving as well and "cracks" in the back stories are being filled that never needed to be filled.

[Pacifien]

Omega-202 wrote...
Nobody tells him what to write unless*snip*

Unless you're Casey Hudson.

[didymos1120]

Pacifien wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...
Nobody tells him what to write unless*snip*

Unless you're Casey Hudson.

Not to mention there are editors who can tell all the writers, lead or no, "Change that", "Fix this", "Nope, that's out.", etc.  Then there are the other departments who can and will say things like "Yeah, we can't pull that off for X reason, sorry writer guy."

[Omega-202]

Pacifien wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...
Nobody tells him what to write unless*snip*

Unless you're Casey Hudson.

Yes, the writing process is collaborative and the director surely has input, but to say that a major plot point like the retconning of the FCW came from someone OUTSIDE the writing department seems far-fetched.  Are you suggesting that Mac is nothing more than a glorified scribe, taking dictation or is it more likely that Casey and the editorial staff have a much "revisionary" role than a creative one?  

An editor is there to dictate what can and cannot be done.  A director is there to provide input on the direction of the story.  The rest, details and general plot points, are supposed to lie in the realm of the head writer.  The last part is the problem.  

Why have such hyped "lead writers" if only to have them babysat and micromanaged?  And if this plot point WAS the result of such micromanagement, then that just goes to show how negative "design by committee" really can be.  

didymos1120 wrote...


Not to mention there are editors who can tell all the writers, lead or no, "Change that", "Fix this", "Nope, that's out.", etc.  Then there are the other departments who can and will say things like "Yeah, we can't pull that off for X reason, sorry writer guy."

Yes and those are editorial inputs.  Those are subtractions and alterations to details.  An editor isn't going to walk into Mac's office and tell him to mess with the enitre FCW backstory.  If that idea came from someone else, let them take credit for it.  

Modifié par Omega-202, 23 février 2011 - 03:49 .

[Whatever42]

The director has more than input, the director and editors put the whole thing together. The writers provide the material and the editors assemble that material into their vision of the story.

For example, in a movie, the writer will produce a huge, long script. The director will then choose what to shoot (in collaboration with a large number of people). After shooting it, the director and editors will decide how to put it all together. They will cut scenes. The will reorder scenes. They will reshoot scenes. They will even request rewrites of scenes to fit their vision of the final product.

That's why I've always said that I have no problems with the writing or the plot; my criticisms come from the editing - from the pacing, from the how the main story missions are lacklustre in comparison to the character missions in ME2 and the story missions in ME1. But you can't lay that solely at the feet of Mac.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 23 février 2011 - 04:25 .

[Pacifien]

I really have no idea how the creative process differs in the gaming industry versus any other entertainment industry, other than an understanding that emphasis on a writing team came late in the evolutionary process in gaming development. The fact that BioWare puts any emphasis on it at all is what set them apart from the rest of the industry for so long.

All my attempts to separate the creative process out into parts has been a failure. Ask any writer on the team to give specifics about their role, they are quick to muddy the waters by emphasizing the collaborative process. The only constant in any of the interviews I have managed to scrounge up from writer, artist, or composer is that they are simply working together to bring Casey Hudson's vision to life. Honestly, the end credit music in ME1 is there because Casey wanted it to be. The fact the Normandy SR-1 is destroyed and Shepard dies at the start of ME2 is there because Casey wanted it to be.

As for the comic book, Mac Walters is said to have plotted the outline of the comic. He did not actually write the comic book. Perhaps, as a lead writer, he trusted the people put in charge of the actual creation of the comic to take his outline and make of it what they will. Fault then to the editors for not realizing the comic book did not have a consistent voice in line with the games, as is their job but who knows if the editors for the game ever even saw the comic book during development as that's a different team, and fault then to Mac Walters for not micromanaging the comic book team to make sure their intepretation of the Mass Effect universe fell under strict lines of what is acceptable. Fault then for plotting a story so lame. Fault then to Casey Hudson, who ultimately approves everything in what is apparently a very George Lucas type role for the series from what I can gather. No, that's not a compliment to be compared to George Lucas: did you not see the prequels?!

Are there franchise comic books out there that actually meet people's expectations? That excel to the standards of the original source? If I'm going to blame anyone for the look and feel of the comic book, I'm going to blame Dark Horse simply because it is yet another series in a very long line of franchise comics done by the company that are substandard as comic books go. Dark Horse caters to the lowest common denominator, and quality means nothing so long as they can counter that argument with sales.

[Joram Talid]

hell, i enjoy the comics. no matter what, people will whine. especially the shut in bioware fanbase.

[Vena_86]

Man I hate this comic road the franchise is going down now. This kind of inconsistent bullcrap that lacks all logic was certainly not what got me interested in Mass Effect to begin with. It is as if Walters really thinks "uhm...well, it's just a video game, so whatever."

[MuLepton]

It frankly baffles me why they thought "exploring TIM's past" would be a good idea in the first place. He worked perfectly fine as the mysterious guy in the background in ME2.

[Pwener2313]

It is a bastard child this comic. I would have written something better and that ACTUALLY fits in the canon storyline. I read the summary and went; WUT!?

[HpCriticAll]

Omega-202 wrote...

@HpCriticAll

See, when you make statements like "I met the writer" and don't mention him by name, what convention or meet-and-greet you spoke to him at and why he would divulge details about a storyline in progress, its very hard to take you seriously. None of that adds up, ESPECIALLY since he's the head writer. Nobody tells him what to write unless it was based on scaffolding that Drew K left for him before he left to work in Austin.
But that second option is even MORE unlikely. Nothing Drew's ever written has ever been of this low quality. And I'm not seeing things through rose colored glasses, Drew's no Shakespeare and I'll be the first to admit it. The poor descriptions/vocabulary and repetitiveness of ME: Revelation should make that apparent. But if we were to draw a comparison, for all of his faults, Drew was nowhere near this uncreative and disrespectful toward canon, let alone the fact that Mac seems completely lost as to what made the ME universe stand up as something so special. The proper term isn't "realistic" but more "believable". ME 1 and most of 2 had a "believability" to it.
Yet there are huge chunks of ME2 and now this comic series that just stink of "O COME ON!!!" Things just aren't jiving as well and "cracks" in the back stories are being filled that never needed to be filled.

The MAIN writer of the comic series, John Jackson Miller. He was recently just in Wisconsin, where I met him at a comic shop, he was doign signings at. Now as for him being the main writer, yes he IS the MAIN writer for the comic series, but NOT the main writer of the whole series. For the most part, there is NOT a main writer. Drew came up with most of it, but the games were a collaboration, and even in the books I believe he mentions help from others.

No writing is ever without help in some fashion. Being that Mass Effect is SUCH a cashcow right now. It's completely understandable to know that being any writer for any side bit of this series. Being under quite the thumb as it were, to only write what's available from the owners of the property. Believe me when I say having the reins on you as a writer makes for a rather challenging if not mostly impossible write for any idea. When you are given such guidelines as given by EA/BioWare.

Imagine if you were paid to write something original about one of your favorite characters ever. Then told you can't use any other characters important to them, even their parents, wife/husband, anyone. You have to comeup with all new characters, you can only do it at the characters age from 23-25. So you only got 2 years to work with, so won't be any flashbacks or flashforwards of important events either way. Oh and you have to make it seem plausible why they became a god later on, but can only hint to that because of known information to the world.

So in other words, it's a lot like writing for Superman. It's hard, because of the amount you can't work with, and how broken everything is you got.

[TheKingOf-Kings]

I was just writing about this over on GameFAQs. The main thing that bothered me was Eva and TIM knowing everything about the galaxy right after their release from the Turians. HOW?! Eva knows what Palavan is but not that the war is over. Then they both somehow know what Illium and the Terminus systems are? HOW?!

I'm not a nitpicker, but goddamn, Mac Walters needs to stop writing terrible fan fiction.

According to that guy^ John Jackson Miller is the 'MAIN' writer. That still doesn't excuse Walters, he was the co lead writer for ME2, he should know better than to let this pass through. But this Miller guy should be kept away from the ME universe.

Modifié par TheKingOf-Kings, 24 février 2011 - 03:47 .

[88mphSlayer]

triggerslol wrote...

lol imagine if the ending of me3 would be about how sheperd travels through. and bam sheperd is the illusive man!

no Shepard, you are the demons

and Shepard was a zombie

the end

[88mphSlayer]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

matt-bassist wrote...

so basically he was like *screw this* its too hard to keep with the established lore and retconned a bunch of stuff to fit into *his* story because he's lazy/a bad writer?

WOW. ME3 is screwed. Be prepared for it all to take place on Earth guys...

The way things are going, I wouldnt be surprised if it all takes place in one room, and all we have are flintlock pistols.

nah just get the Half-Life: Full Life Consequences guy to write the story

[baryonic member]

Please no! Don't tell me this mr Walters is in charge of the story for ME3. My expectations just dropped by around 50%.

[Tamahome560]

Damn ... so much retcons and inconsistencies. All the comics so far have been really bad. I will not blame it on Mac but whoever checks the comics for consistencies with lore should know the lore ... or at least have some kind of lore bible. So far it seems that whoever checks them is an idiot who knows almost nothing about Mass Effect Lore.

What I do like is the parallel between TIM and Shep.