602 réponses à ce sujet

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

MOAR RETCONS PLEAZE

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

darknoon5 wrote...
A devoted fan would have faith, not despair after one poor comic. A devoted fan would of course also complain about the rational faults to try to improve the quality of future content, without doing the whole "ME3 will suck" and "omg bioware fire Mac he is a hack" routine.

Well for one thing, we tried letting them know our views while ME2 was still in development; our worries and concerns.  That didn't work out well.  I know, not the same thing as critiquing it in post, but still.

For another, once burned, twice shy.  This is not the first poor storyline element, or even the first poor comic for that matter (Redemption).  I used to have faith.  It's gone now.  This is going to sound like a tangent at first, but I used to be one of the most devoted fans to Command & Conquer that you had ever seen.  But after the IP changed hands, it got trashed, over and over again.  I hoped that "well maybe it was a fluke and the next one will be good again" but no, it got worse and worse.  They pretty much killed my passion for that series and it has made me bitter.  The main reason for that is that they completely butchered the story and previously-established lore (well that and the gameplay sucked, but primarily the first reason).  Hell they even came out with a motion-comic that was equally as bad as Redemption and this issue of Equinox*.

*From what I've read in the summaries in this thread, I haven't personally read the new one.

So what I'm saying, is I'm noticing a similar trend as to what happend with C&C, although not nearly as severe (at least not yet anyway).  The IP itself hasn't changed hands/studios, but the writing has changed hands, and it's slowly degrading bit-by-bit, and due to my past experience with C&C I am extremely wary of this and pretty much anything Walters is doing now.

[marshalleck]

adneate wrote... But since you're dead set on being Mac Walter's bananna rider, I'll leave you to bounce on it in peace.

Aces. 

[darknoon5]

Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...
A devoted fan would have faith, not despair after one poor comic. A devoted fan would of course also complain about the rational faults to try to improve the quality of future content, without doing the whole "ME3 will suck" and "omg bioware fire Mac he is a hack" routine.

Well for one thing, we tried letting them know our views while ME2 was still in development; our worries and concerns.  That didn't work out well.  I know, not the same thing as critiquing it in post, but still.

For another, once burned, twice shy.  This is not the first poor storyline element, or even the first poor comic for that matter (Redemption).  I used to have faith.  It's gone now.  This is going to sound like a tangent at first, but I used to be one of the most devoted fans to Command & Conquer that you had ever seen.  But after the IP changed hands, it got trashed, over and over again.  I hoped that "well maybe it was a fluke and the next one will be good again" but no, it got worse and worse.  They pretty much killed my passion for that series and it has made me bitter.  The main reason for that is that they completely butchered the story and previously-established lore (well that and the gameplay sucked, but primarily the first reason).  Hell they even came out with a motion-comic that was equally as bad as Redemption and this issue of Equinox*.

*From what I've read in the summaries in this thread, I haven't personally read the new one.

So what I'm saying, is I'm noticing a similar trend as to what happend with C&C, although not nearly as severe (at least not yet anyway).  The IP itself hasn't changed hands/studios, but the writing has changed hands, and it's slowly degrading bit-by-bit, and due to my past experience with C&C I am extremely wary of this and pretty much anything Walters is doing now.

LoTSB and the explortion in Overlord is proof Bioware is listening to critique. If you can find a ME1 fan or ME2 fan that is marjorly (I mean excluding the forced Liara friendship) dissatisfied with LoTSB, I will give you a cookie.

The difference with C&C, is as you said, that it switched studios. Also, drew wasn't cut out of ME2, he was still a lead writer, just not the lead writer.

Modifié par darknoon5, 19 février 2011 - 06:39 .

[marshalleck]

 Liara is still wearing her plot armor, she's the only character we're shackled to whether we like it or not. Bioware heard something, but they weren't really listening. And fighting along the hull of the SB's ship was a blatant attempt to cash in on the exterior Citadel combat sequences from the first game, which was and still is pretty awesome. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 février 2011 - 06:44 .

[Eterna1Soldier]

Point number 3 is not neccesarily true. In fact it's probably not. Just because Desolas waas searching for the ancient alien artifact doesn't mean he knew it was reaper technology. He might have thought it was prothean. Or some other ancient species.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

Yes I do admit that LotSB and Overlord give me some hope*, but like I said. I'm still very wary*. I don't let my hopes get up anymore because they've been crushed before.

*Even though I didn't let my hopes get up after LotSB was announced and, as a result, it far surpassed my expectations.

I just can't help but notice the subtle similarities between this and what happened to C&C that, to me, are the canary in the coal mine.

Modifié par Mighty_BOB_cnc, 19 février 2011 - 06:45 .

[CroGamer002]

Sunnie22 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

So one bad comic=death of series?

I give up. You all seem to be fixed that this one comic means ME3 will be awful. Bioware has the most ridiculious, arrogant, overeacting and unappeasable fanbase I've come across, and that's saying something.

One bad comic? Are you serious? What rock have you been hiding under? We have 2 bad comic series (really 1.5, but by the time they get done with the current train wreck it will be 2), and a totally failed ME2 (yes there was no real story in ME2, just a bunch of back story shorts for companion characters nobody knew of).

Jesus Christ, now you are like smudboy.

There is a story in ME2.
Only problem is that is not mind blowing as ME1's story.

[Ahriman]

darknoon5 wrote...
LoTSB and the explortion in Overlord is proof Bioware is listening to critique. If you can find a ME1 fan or ME2 fan that is marjorly (I mean excluding the forced Liara friendship) dissatisfied with LoTSB, I will give you a cookie.

LoTSB wasn't written by Walters. Now many times it should be repeated?

[darknoon5]

marshalleck wrote...

 Liara is still wearing her plot armor, she's the only character we're shackled to whether we like it or not. Bioware heard something, but they weren't really listening. 

What will it take to convince you? You really believe we won't have any of our ME2 team in ME3, even though Christina Norman heavily hinted (she pretty much said we were screwed if we had nearly none our ME2 team left) that they would return?

But lets wait and see if a VS DLC is released, then you can judge whether we're being "shackled" to Liara.

[darknoon5]

Wizz wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...
LoTSB and the explortion in Overlord is proof Bioware is listening to critique. If you can find a ME1 fan or ME2 fan that is marjorly (I mean excluding the forced Liara friendship) dissatisfied with LoTSB, I will give you a cookie.

LoTSB wasn't written by Walters. Now many times it should be repeated?

I never said it was! I'm saying Bioware (not Mac!) was listening. I know Mac didn't write it. Find one part where I said otherwise. I'll even bold the part where I said Bioware.

This is what I mean. Instead of listening to me, people are making assumptions, taking parts of my arguement out of context and insulting me.

Edit: See?

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

For the record, LOTSB wasn't
written by Mac. In fact, Mac never laid a single hand on LOTSB. It was
all done by Patrick Weekes and his colleague. Mac merely reviewed their
work after they were done with the writing.

marshalleck wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

 Liara is still wearing her plot armor, she's the only character we're shackled to whether we like it or not. Bioware heard something, but they weren't really listening. 

What
will it take to convince you? You really believe we won't have any of
our ME2 team in ME3, even though Christina Norman heavily hinted (she
pretty much said we were screwed if we had nearly none our ME2 team
left) that they would return?

But lets wait and see if a VS DLC is released, then you can judge whether we're being "shackled" to Liara.

I think you should chill out and stop making assumptions about my
beliefs regarding ME3. But, for the record, what will convince me ME3 is
an awesome game is playing it myself and seeing that it's an awesome
game. No amount of pleas to hope and faith will convince me of
anything. 

Fair play. I'm just tired of trying to reason with people and being ignored, I should not have made assumptions.

Modifié par darknoon5, 19 février 2011 - 06:50 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

For the record, LOTSB wasn't written by Mac. In fact, Mac never laid a single hand on LOTSB. It was all done by Patrick Weekes and his colleague. Mac merely reviewed their work after they were done with the writing.

[marshalleck]

darknoon5 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

 Liara is still wearing her plot armor, she's the only character we're shackled to whether we like it or not. Bioware heard something, but they weren't really listening. 

What will it take to convince you? You really believe we won't have any of our ME2 team in ME3, even though Christina Norman heavily hinted (she pretty much said we were screwed if we had nearly none our ME2 team left) that they would return?

But lets wait and see if a VS DLC is released, then you can judge whether we're being "shackled" to Liara.

I think you should chill out and stop making assumptions about my beliefs regarding ME3. But, for the record, what will convince me ME3 is an awesome game is playing it myself and seeing that it's an awesome game. No amount of appeals to hope and faith will convince me of anything. 

And, for the record, my comment about Liara is objectively true whether you like it or not. She's the only companion that can't die.

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 février 2011 - 06:51 .

[jlb524]

darknoon5 wrote...

Well, Mac didn't trainwreck ME2. It's a shame Drew isn't involved in ME3, but I doubt Bioware will let Mac destroy ME3 with a story fit for something from Sci-fy channel.

You can't say that because more people in polls or whatever prefer ME2 to ME1 that Mac didn't trainwreck the ME2 story (and the entire story, tbh).   Story is one part of the game....most prefer ME2 b/c of the combat upgrades and tweaks.

It seems to me that most people on these forums prefer ME1's story to ME2's, as most think the latter is complete crap.

If you follow the 'Disappointment with ME2' threads, most of the complaints are in regards to the story/plot and not the new combat system.

[darknoon5]

Well, Wrex has a large amount of dialogue and influence on the story on Tuchanka, so I'd say that shows Bioware is acknowledging the existence of ME1 squadmates. His replacement if you kill him is also a douche-proof Bioware isn't trying to cut all ties with the ME1 Crew that could die.

[Fiery Phoenix]

darknoon5 wrote...

(...)

Fair play. I'm just tired of trying to reason with people and being ignored, I should not have made assumptions.

My post wasn't directed at you. Sorry if it seemed otherwise. I know what you're saying.

[darknoon5]

jlb524 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Well, Mac didn't trainwreck ME2. It's a shame Drew isn't involved in ME3, but I doubt Bioware will let Mac destroy ME3 with a story fit for something from Sci-fy channel.

You can't say that because more people in polls or whatever prefer ME2 to ME1 that Mac didn't trainwreck the ME2 story (and the entire story, tbh).   Story is one part of the game....most prefer ME2 b/c of the combat upgrades and tweaks.

It seems to me that most people on these forums prefer ME1's story to ME2's, as most think the latter is complete crap.

If you follow the 'Disappointment with ME2' threads, most of the complaints are in regards to the story/plot and not the new combat system.

I prefer ME1's story to ME2. That does not mean I believe ME2's is a "trainwreck." There's nothing wrong with it, it just isn't as outstounding as ME1's.

That is, unless you were actually expecting to fight the reapers.

Edit: No worries Fiery Phoenix. I also should not have assumed.

Anyway, I have to go now. I can't waste any more time arguing.

Modifié par darknoon5, 19 février 2011 - 06:53 .

[Sunnie]

Mesina2 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

So one bad comic=death of series?

I give up. You all seem to be fixed that this one comic means ME3 will be awful. Bioware has the most ridiculious, arrogant, overeacting and unappeasable fanbase I've come across, and that's saying something.

One bad comic? Are you serious? What rock have you been hiding under? We have 2 bad comic series (really 1.5, but by the time they get done with the current train wreck it will be 2), and a totally failed ME2 (yes there was no real story in ME2, just a bunch of back story shorts for companion characters nobody knew of).

Jesus Christ, now you are like smudboy.

There is a story in ME2.
Only problem is that is not mind blowing as ME1's story.

I'm not the only one to seem to have failed to find any real story in ME2. The only thing in ME2 that was main story was "Oh, the Collectors are really Prothians. Ok, /story. They filled in the rest of the 20 hours of game play with back story shorts for all the new shiny companions. Oh boy!  Do you have anything really inteligent to add to this discussion or are you just going to post snipes like the above, as you normally do everywhere else on this forum?

[Ahriman]

darknoon5 wrote...
I never said it was! I'm saying Bioware (not Mac!) was listening. I know Mac didn't write it. Find one part where I said otherwise. I'll even bold the part where I said Bioware.

This is what I mean. Instead of listening to me, people are making assumptions, taking parts of my arguement out of context and insulting me.

Here we discuss Walters' writing, not Bioware's. Do you really think LoTSB would be the same if Walters was involved?

[Bourne Endeavor]

darknoon5 wrote...

 And more people like ME2 then ME1 (proven in several polls) despite Mac's involvement.

Although correct, one of the principle complaints that has remained a consensus amongst the fanbase was Mass Effect 2's main plot was poorly written. Virtually no one liked the Baby-Reaperminator and most perceived the Collectors wasted potential.

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

For the record, LOTSB wasn't written by Mac. In fact, Mac never laid a single hand on LOTSB. It was all done by Patrick Weekes and his colleague. Mac merely reviewed their work after they were done with the writing.

Coincidently, LotSB had a workable and reasonably efficient plot, whereas ME2 had more holes than swiss cheese. The extent of his possible involvement worries me.

[Babli]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

So one bad comic=death of series?

I give up. You all seem to be fixed that this one comic means ME3 will be awful. Bioware has the most ridiculious, arrogant, overeacting and unappeasable fanbase I've come across, and that's saying something.

One bad comic? Are you serious? What rock have you been hiding under? We have 2 bad comic series (really 1.5, but by the time they get done with the current train wreck it will be 2), and a totally failed ME2 (yes there was no real story in ME2, just a bunch of back story shorts for companion characters nobody knew of).

Jesus Christ, now you are like smudboy.

There is a story in ME2.
Only problem is that is not mind blowing as ME1's story.

I'm not the only one to seem to have failed to find any real story in ME2. The only thing in ME2 that was main story was "Oh, the Collectors are really Prothians. Ok, /story. They filled in the rest of the 20 hours of game play with back story shorts for all the new shiny companions. Oh boy!  Do you have anything really inteligent to add to this discussion or are you just going to post snipes like the above, as you normally do everywhere else on this forum?

pwned
Not to mention, that Collectors plot doesnt make sense.
ME 2 story is good until you start to think about it. Which I as adventure gamer do unfortunately.

[marshalleck]

Well to be fair, Casey Hudson had to approve everything that Mac Walters approved. So in this thread you can poke him with sticks too.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

jlb524 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...
Well, Macdidn't trainwreck ME2. It's a shame Drew isn't involved in ME3, but I doubt Bioware will let Mac destroy ME3 with a story fit for something from Sci-fy channel.

You can't say that because more people in polls or whatever prefer ME2 to ME1 that Mac didn't trainwreck the ME2 story (and the entire story, tbh). Story is one part of the game....most prefer ME2 b/c of the combat upgrades and tweaks.

It seems to me that most people on these forums prefer ME1's story to ME2's, as most think the latter is complete crap.

If you follow the 'Disappointment with ME2' threads, most of the complaints are in regards to the story/plot and not the new combat system.

Actually yeah, that's a good clarification. The gameplay in ME3 is unlikely to get worse, so at least that will be consistent. I'm concerned about the story.

I will, of course, reserve actual judgment until it's out.

darknoon5 wrote...

This is what I mean. Instead of listening to me, people are making assumptions, taking parts of my arguement out of context and insulting me.

Edit: See?

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

For the record, LOTSB wasn't written by Mac. In fact, Mac never laid a single hand on LOTSB. It was all done by Patrick Weekes and his colleague. Mac merely reviewed their work after they were done with the writing.

But the point there is that LotSB is better precisely because Mac didn't touch it, whereas he is the lead writer for ME3 and this comic, which is why it isn't an apples-to-apples comparison with LotSB.


-edit- Let's hope 'dis edit fixes some formatting.

Modifié par Mighty_BOB_cnc, 19 février 2011 - 07:03 .

[Khayness]

But there are explosions and ass angle shots, right?

That's all what matters.