602 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

I don't get this. How can a man who wrote the krogans and Wrex do such a terrible job and practically destroy the series and other characters? Like wow.....

[darknoon5]

mrsph wrote...

People act like Drew Karpyshyn is the greatest videogame of all time. OF ALL TIME. When the books prove he can't write a coherent story himself.

The comics will be treated like the novels are in the games. Broad Strokes.

This is one of the points I was trying to put across, but it was shot down by the drew worshippers.

[Il Divo]

Babli wrote...

Because Collectors plot doesnt make any sense. They would never finish that Repaer, because they wouldnt abduct enough humans, because they had only that one ship. They would be dead before they would reach our Solar system.

So they would be stopped without Shepard because Alliance was already investigating it.

Seriously, what do you think they would accomplish with that one ship against Alliance fleet? Nothing, thus main plot of ME 2 doesnt make sense.

And killing Shepard was just cheap plot device, its never mentioned again after we leave Cerberus base except "I got better" lines.

And "take your whole team to shuttle while Collectors will take our crew" scene is just plain stupid.

About as stupid as the Council  accepting a voice recording to prove Saren's guilt?

[Babli]

Il Divo wrote...

Babli wrote...

Because Collectors plot doesnt make any sense. They would never finish that Repaer, because they wouldnt abduct enough humans, because they had only that one ship. They would be dead before they would reach our Solar system.

So they would be stopped without Shepard because Alliance was already investigating it.

Seriously, what do you think they would accomplish with that one ship against Alliance fleet? Nothing, thus main plot of ME 2 doesnt make sense.

And killing Shepard was just cheap plot device, its never mentioned again after we leave Cerberus base except "I got better" lines.

And "take your whole team to shuttle while Collectors will take our crew" scene is just plain stupid.

About as stupid as the Council  accepting a voice recording to prove Saren's guilt?

Whats stupid about that? I am sure that they have technology that can recognize if recording is fake or not. And even if not, whole game isnt about proving Sarens guilt, while whole ME 2 IS about assembling team to stop the Collectors.

[darknoon5]

jlb524 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

That is, unless you were actually expecting to fight the reapers.

No, I was expecting ME2's story to continue from ME1's and set the stage for the final Reaper showdown in ME3.  I would expect that we'd find out more about the Reapers...perhaps some clues on how they could finally be defeated.  I had always expected that ME2 would involve Shepard and the ME1 crew scouring the galaxy for clues about the Reapers, picking up some new squad mates along the way.  This would be a nice buildup to ME3.

Instead, Shepard dies and is working for Cerberus doing pointless errands for people.

As mentioned, 'OMG THE PROTHEANS ARE COLLECTORS!' really doesn't cut it either.

I cba to respond to everything, but I would like to respond to this.

It does continue, as you do learn more about the reapers. Sure, not in the way you think, but you learn:

a) The geth and keepers are not the only species they used
They use other species to reproduce
c) There is possibly different factions
d) They all have different appearances
e) The indoctrination field is active after death
 f)  They have a leader, at least of sorts, in Harbinger

It also does set the stage for ME3 with:

a) The Geth/Quarian situation
You recruit a squad that can (if they survived) be used again in ME3
c) Dark energy
d) New tech such as Thanix cannon
e) The fact despite the councils denial, at least some of them are aware of the reapers (Maelon's comments in Mordin's loyalty mission)

In the same way the empire strikes back technically has little relevance to the overall plot of star wars, it is a key point, and definetly thebest film.

I'm not saying ME2 and TESB are exactly the same, I'm just using an example.

[darknoon5]

Il Divo wrote...

Babli wrote...

Because Collectors plot doesnt make any sense. They would never finish that Repaer, because they wouldnt abduct enough humans, because they had only that one ship. They would be dead before they would reach our Solar system.

So they would be stopped without Shepard because Alliance was already investigating it.

Seriously, what do you think they would accomplish with that one ship against Alliance fleet? Nothing, thus main plot of ME 2 doesnt make sense.

And killing Shepard was just cheap plot device, its never mentioned again after we leave Cerberus base except "I got better" lines.

And "take your whole team to shuttle while Collectors will take our crew" scene is just plain stupid.

About as stupid as the Council  accepting a voice recording to prove Saren's guilt?

B-b-but it was irrefutable! No way that in the future you can fake somebodys voice, such as in Kasumi's stolen memories.

Oh, and how did Shepard know Saren was going to attack the citadel in *that* scene where the council impound the normandy? That's right, he didn't. It's a...OMG PLOT HOLE!

Of course Drew is perfect. Mac obviously wrote those parts. Also, none of the mass effect books actually exist, they're just a conspiracy to make Drew look inferior...

I'm not trying to give the impression I dislike drew-he is a great writer. I just get tired of how people always hate on Mac and endlessly praise Drew.

mrsph wrote...

Mash Mashington wrote...

People act like Mass Effect 1  had a case of better written and implemented main plot, 'tis all

"WEH HAVE 2 STOP SAREN!"

"Go to four random planets (two with nearly the exact same plot) and find evidence"

But you forgot the amazing part where Shepard instantly believes the reapers are real after one vision and a geth recording in true "I'm a lunatic style" style. That was a beautiful and well-done part of the plot.

Modifié par darknoon5, 19 février 2011 - 08:24 .

[Il Divo]

Babli wrote...

Whats stupid about that? I am sure that they have technology that can recognize if recording is fake or not. And even if not, whole game isnt about proving Sarens guilt, while whole ME 2 IS about assembling team to stop the Collectors.

Which we never see, nor hear about. Shepard walks in as the 'evidence' is being presented. The Asari Councilor actually calls it 'irrefutable', so not much going for your voice-checker tech.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Il Divo wrote...

Babli wrote...

Because Collectors plot doesnt make any sense. They would never finish that Repaer, because they wouldnt abduct enough humans, because they had only that one ship. They would be dead before they would reach our Solar system.

So they would be stopped without Shepard because Alliance was already investigating it.

Seriously, what do you think they would accomplish with that one ship against Alliance fleet? Nothing, thus main plot of ME 2 doesnt make sense.

And killing Shepard was just cheap plot device, its never mentioned again after we leave Cerberus base except "I got better" lines.

And "take your whole team to shuttle while Collectors will take our crew" scene is just plain stupid.

About as stupid as the Council  accepting a voice recording to prove Saren's guilt?

While it may have been a stretch. You had testimony from the dock worker, Saren having previously lied to the Council and Garrus' investigation insinuated there already existed suspicion Saren was up to something. Thus, it is not unfathomable they accept the MP3 file. Whereas in ME2, the Collector plan was impossible.

[Whatever42]

mrsph wrote...

Mash Mashington wrote...

People act like Mass Effect 1  had a case of better written and implemented main plot, 'tis all

"WEH HAVE 2 STOP SAREN!"

"Go to four random planets (two with nearly the exact same plot) and find evidence"

Don't forget our crack crew of a Quarian teenager, a young Asari archeologist, a bitter ex-cop and a krogan mercenary who disobeys orders. Who in their right mind would take those people along on a mission to save the galaxy?

[Babli]

Il Divo wrote...

Babli wrote...

Whats stupid about that? I am sure that they have technology that can recognize if recording is fake or not. And even if not, whole game isnt about proving Sarens guilt, while whole ME 2 IS about assembling team to stop the Collectors.

Which we never see, nor hear about. Shepard walks in as the 'evidence' is being presented. The Asari Councilor actually calls it 'irrefutable', so not much going for your voice-checker tech.

So? My point still stands.

I am not saying that ME 1 plot is the best story ever, but its definitely superior to main plot of ME 2.

[Whatever42]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Babli wrote...

Because Collectors plot doesnt make any sense. They would never finish that Repaer, because they wouldnt abduct enough humans, because they had only that one ship. They would be dead before they would reach our Solar system.

So they would be stopped without Shepard because Alliance was already investigating it.

Seriously, what do you think they would accomplish with that one ship against Alliance fleet? Nothing, thus main plot of ME 2 doesnt make sense.

And killing Shepard was just cheap plot device, its never mentioned again after we leave Cerberus base except "I got better" lines.

And "take your whole team to shuttle while Collectors will take our crew" scene is just plain stupid.

About as stupid as the Council  accepting a voice recording to prove Saren's guilt?

While it may have been a stretch. You had testimony from the dock worker, Saren having previously lied to the Council and Garrus' investigation insinuated there already existed suspicion Saren was up to something. Thus, it is not unfathomable they accept the MP3 file. Whereas in ME2, the Collector plan was impossible.

So while the other evidence is totally dismissed, this evidence is irrefutable and they revoke his status on the spot without a hearing? Massive plot hole.

[Zulu_DFA]

It's a comic book. It has a plot of a 300-400-page novel to cram into 300-400 sketchy pictures. It can't explain all the technical details, therefore they are bound to seem odd. As for the main plot points, there haven't been any in contradiction to the lore so far.

As for TIM being "Anti-Shepard", I can only repeat myself:

Shepard is Luke, TIM is Vader, and Harbinger is the Emperor. And the thermal clips are a retcon.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 février 2011 - 08:30 .

[CroGamer002]

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
So, why am I pwned?

Because Collectors plot doesnt make any sense. They would never finish that Repaer, because they wouldnt abduct enough humans, because they had only that one ship. They would be dead before they would reach our Solar system.

So they would be stopped without Shepard because Alliance was already investigating it.

Seriously, what do you think they would accomplish with that one ship against Alliance fleet? Nothing, thus main plot of ME 2 doesnt make sense.

And killing Shepard was just cheap plot device, its never mentioned again after we leave Cerberus base except "I got better" lines.

And "take your whole team to shuttle while Collectors will take our crew" scene is just plain stupid.

That was new and original. I take it as that you have no arguments and refuse to see the fact, that Collectors had no chance in succeeding. Prove me wrong or post another cool picture.

They would get enough humans eventually?


Let's see what did Alliance found out when Shepard was done at Freedoms Progress? Jacksh*t!

What after Horizon? They did but if Shepard didn't show op there they would still know jacksh*t and may even lost Ashley/Kaidan.


Also it was mentioned few times about Shepard's death and only once "I got better" you ignorant!
Let's see when:

With Tali on Freedoms Progress
With Miranda on Normandy
With Jacob on Normandy
With Ashley/Kaidan.
With Jack in last step for romance.
With Illusive Man before Freedoms Progress and if you destroyed Collector Base.

Also with Liara in LotSB.


And almost everyone you meet though you died.

And what's the point of talking about anyway?

[Il Divo]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

While it may have been a stretch. You had testimony from the dock worker, Saren having previously lied to the Council and Garrus' investigation insinuated there already existed suspicion Saren was up to something. Thus, it is not unfathomable they accept the MP3 file. Whereas in ME2, the Collector plan was impossible.

The dock-worker whom they previously disregarded for being 'traumatized', ergo we have no way to support the conclusion that Saren was lying and Garrus' investigation turned up nothing, which he himself says. A stretch is one thing, a leap of faith entirely another.

I also wouldn't call the Collector plan impossible. Incredibly difficult, yes but the Reapers were also put in a desperate situation. But between the Omega IV relay and the seeker swarms, I highly doubt Babli's anlysis that it would come down to the 'Alliance Fleet vs. one ship'.

[nevar00]

Why do people keep saying Harbinger is some sort of Reaper leader? Soverign said they all were equal and each an "independent state"... or something like that. Harbinger was just in charge of the Collectors and their shenanigans, in the same way Soverign was in charge of having the Keepers open the Citadel relay.

[darknoon5]

[quote]mrsph wrote...

[quote]Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

[quote]mrsph wrote...
Don't forget our crack crew of a Quarian teenager, a young Asari archeologist, a bitter ex-cop and a krogan mercenary who disobeys orders. Who in their right mind would take those people along on a mission to save the galaxy?
[/quote]

Seemed like a good idea at the time.

[/quote]You forget, great reasons are given for their recruitment:

a) Even though she's so naaive she actually expected to meet the shadow broker, she did stun two guys with a grenade. Oh, and even though she would realistically die as soon as her shields dropped, she has plot armour.
She's hot, bisexual and a virgin. Nerds wet dream. Also something vauge about "prothean knowledge."
c) He headshotted thta guy good though.
d) The fact he randomly kills Fist shows his excellence at following orders.

I like the ME1 crew, but the recruitment reasons are awful. I'm not insulting the characters, just the poor reasons for recruitment.

[ZombifiedJake]

Such a bad writer, and this doesn't help my view towards the comics (which have flat out sucked). Games, great. Novels, great.

[darknoon5]

nevar00 wrote...

Why do people keep saying Harbinger is some sort of Reaper leader? Soverign said they all were equal and each an "independent state"... or something like that. Harbinger was just in charge of the Collectors and their shenanigans, in the same way Soverign was in charge of having the Keepers open the Citadel relay.

Which is why his appearance stands out so much compared to the others, and he is in front of the reapers descending on the galaxy.

Not hard proof, but that definetly suggests he is a leader, or figure of authority in the reaper fleet.

[Il Divo]

Babli wrote...

So? My point still stands.

Does it really? Given your response, I thought your point was that the voice-recording was not a plot hole?
It is a plot-hole. Your point is non-existent.

I am not saying that ME 1 plot is the best story ever, but its definitely superior to main plot of ME 2.

I can poke plot holes too. It's not as difficult as some would like to believe. Any story can be reduced ad absurdum if given enough energy.