602 réponses à ce sujet

[Babli]

Mesina2 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
So, why am I pwned?

Because Collectors plot doesnt make any sense. They would never finish that Repaer, because they wouldnt abduct enough humans, because they had only that one ship. They would be dead before they would reach our Solar system.

So they would be stopped without Shepard because Alliance was already investigating it.

Seriously, what do you think they would accomplish with that one ship against Alliance fleet? Nothing, thus main plot of ME 2 doesnt make sense.

And killing Shepard was just cheap plot device, its never mentioned again after we leave Cerberus base except "I got better" lines.

And "take your whole team to shuttle while Collectors will take our crew" scene is just plain stupid.

That was new and original. I take it as that you have no arguments and refuse to see the fact, that Collectors had no chance in succeeding. Prove me wrong or post another cool picture.

They would get enough humans eventually?

How? How would they get through defence of big colonies, not to mention Earth with that one ship of theirs?

[darknoon5]

mrsph wrote...

Mash Mashington wrote...
really

"WE HAVE TO STOP TEH COLLECTORZZ"

"Let's gather a bunch of randomly chosen badass dudes and cater to their oh-so-important personal issues 'cause otherwise they will be upset and DIE"

While ME1 plot wasn't perfect, it did enough right to let a lot of things slide. If ME2 didn't shove major  codex and law inconsistencies right into my face i wouldn't be as mad as i am now. But no, let's make more retcons and forget about everything we established in the first (and even  second) game

The games are going to ignore the codex for the sake of gameplay anyway.

ME1 gameplay contradicts the law worse then ME2 biotically speaking. Global cooldown in ME2 actually follows the lore, where as in ME1 being able to use one biotic power right after another is very unlikely as you need time to take dark energy in...using a few in a row without stopping is definetly not possible according to the books.

So ME2 is not alone in contradicting the lore.

[Il Divo]

mrsph wrote...

Is there even a story that goes past one installment where the plot isn't riddled with plot holes and retcons anyway?

It's a nice thought, at least.

[nevar00]

darknoon5 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Why do people keep saying Harbinger is some sort of Reaper leader? Soverign said they all were equal and each an "independent state"... or something like that. Harbinger was just in charge of the Collectors and their shenanigans, in the same way Soverign was in charge of having the Keepers open the Citadel relay.

Which is why his appearance stands out so much compared to the others, and he is in front of the reapers descending on the galaxy.

Not hard proof, but that definetly suggests he is a leader, or figure of authority in the reaper fleet.

lol how could you tell it was him?  They all look the same.

He's garunteed to show up again as he and Shephard have history; he might even be the final boss, but it's not like he's the Reaper leader.

[jlb524]

darknoon5 wrote...

It does continue, as you do learn more about the reapers. Sure, not in the way you think, but you learn:

a) The geth and keepers are not the only species they used
They use other species to reproduce
c) There is possibly different factions
d) They all have different appearances
e) The indoctrination field is active after death
 f)  They have a leader, at least of sorts, in Harbinger

Big whoop.  I'd rather know things like, 'what are their motivations/weaknesses/where do they come from/etc.'

darknoon5 wrote...
It also does set the stage for ME3 with:

a) The Geth/Quarian situation
You recruit a squad that can (if they survived) be used again in ME3
c) Dark energy
d) New tech such as Thanix cannon
e) The fact despite the councils denial, at least some of them are aware of the reapers (Maelon's comments in Mordin's loyalty mission)

That seems like a bunch of stuff thrown in that may or may not have any bearing on ME3.  Also, these things are axuillary to the main story.  ...and the Council thing is a rehash from what we saw in ME1.  Really, ME2 doesn't move us forward that much.

darknoon5 wrote...
In the same way the empire strikes back technically has little relevance to the overall plot of star wars, it is a key point, and definetly thebest film.

I'm not saying ME2 and TESB are exactly the same, I'm just using an example.

If Empire Strikes Back was ME2, Luke would have gotten a whole new group of friends while Leia/Han/Chewie appeared in a 2 minute cameo, and he would be forced to work for some shadowy off-shoot of the Rebel Alliance led by 'The Illusive Hutt', and Luke's main goal would be to locate and blow up a Storm Trooper base while we learn little about the Empire, Darth Vader, or the Jedi.  Oh, there would be no Yoda...the story really isn't about Luke anymore, it's all about 'The Illusive Hutt'.

[darknoon5]

nevar00 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Why do people keep saying Harbinger is some sort of Reaper leader? Soverign said they all were equal and each an "independent state"... or something like that. Harbinger was just in charge of the Collectors and their shenanigans, in the same way Soverign was in charge of having the Keepers open the Citadel relay.

Which is why his appearance stands out so much compared to the others, and he is in front of the reapers descending on the galaxy.

Not hard proof, but that definetly suggests he is a leader, or figure of authority in the reaper fleet.

lol how could you tell it was him?  They all look the same.

He's garunteed to show up again as he and Shephard have history; he might even be the final boss, but it's not like he's the Reaper leader.

Err the orange glowig eyes is how you tell it was him...oh and you know, the datapad Joker shows you with the reaper that looks exactly the same.
Either way, that reaper at the front with glowing eyes is a leader of some sort.

They do not all look the same. Look around-there is variety in the appearance of the reapers in the fleet at the end of ME2.

[Fixers0]

Dear Mr Walters.

Could you please stop retconning the Mass Effect Series?

Thanks in advance.

Modifié par Fixers0, 19 février 2011 - 08:37 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

After reading the first page I have determined this comic never happened. All claims about it are to be dismissed according to Protocol-3A55WTF!!!XR.

[darknoon5]

jlb524 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

It does continue, as you do learn more about the reapers. Sure, not in the way you think, but you learn:

a) The geth and keepers are not the only species they used
They use other species to reproduce
c) There is possibly different factions
d) They all have different appearances
e) The indoctrination field is active after death
 f)  They have a leader, at least of sorts, in Harbinger

Big whoop.  I'd rather know things like, 'what are their motivations/weaknesses/where do they come from/etc.'

darknoon5 wrote...
It also does set the stage for ME3 with:

a) The Geth/Quarian situation
You recruit a squad that can (if they survived) be used again in ME3
c) Dark energy
d) New tech such as Thanix cannon
e) The fact despite the councils denial, at least some of them are aware of the reapers (Maelon's comments in Mordin's loyalty mission)

That seems like a bunch of stuff thrown in that may or may not have any bearing on ME3.  Also, these things are axuillary to the main story.  ...and the Council thing is a rehash from what we saw in ME1.  Really, ME2 doesn't move us forward that much.

darknoon5 wrote...
In the same way the empire strikes back technically has little relevance to the overall plot of star wars, it is a key point, and definetly thebest film.

I'm not saying ME2 and TESB are exactly the same, I'm just using an example.

If Empire Strikes Back was ME2, Luke would have gotten a whole new group of friends while Leia/Han/Chewie appeared in a 2 minute cameo, and he would be forced to work for some shadowy off-shoot of the Rebel Alliance led by 'The Illusive Hutt', and Luke's main goal would be to locate and blow up a Storm Trooper base while we learn little about the Empire, Darth Vader, or the Jedi.  Oh, there would be no Yoda...the story really isn't about Luke anymore, it's all about 'The Illusive Hutt'.

You did learn about a possible motivation...reproduction. As in, they cull all life to make new reapers.

The Quarian/Geth situation is likely to have an impact on ME3, deny it or not.

The empire strikes back isn't similar to ME2 plotwise, but in that there is no conflict against the empire besides the opening when the rebels get owned (kinda like ME2 when the normandy gets blown up, right?) Alot of TESB is character development and romance is quite a large element-just like in ME2.

Luke's goal was to learn more about the force...as in the way to defeat the empire. We recruited a squad to help us defeat the collectors, delaying the reapers whilst we can come up with some sort of plan.

[nevar00]

darknoon5 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Why do people keep saying Harbinger is some sort of Reaper leader? Soverign said they all were equal and each an "independent state"... or something like that. Harbinger was just in charge of the Collectors and their shenanigans, in the same way Soverign was in charge of having the Keepers open the Citadel relay.

Which is why his appearance stands out so much compared to the others, and he is in front of the reapers descending on the galaxy.

Not hard proof, but that definetly suggests he is a leader, or figure of authority in the reaper fleet.

lol how could you tell it was him?  They all look the same.

He's garunteed to show up again as he and Shephard have history; he might even be the final boss, but it's not like he's the Reaper leader.

Err the orange glowig eyes is how you tell it was him...oh and you know, the datapad Joker shows you with the reaper that looks exactly the same.
Either way, that reaper at the front with glowing eyes is a leader of some sort.

They do not all look the same. Look around-there is variety in the appearance of the reapers in the fleet at the end of ME2.

Oh... wow, I er, never realized they all did look different.

There's still no evidence that Harbinger is the leader though (not that it's a big deal in this thread).  Someone had to be in the lead, might as well be the guy who has history with Shephard already.

[Whatever42]

Oh, having 3 humans squadmates is awful. Clearly the writers are hacks. How unforgivable of them. Also, the color of the walls in ME2 was horrible. The walls in ME1 were much better. ME2 clearly sucks.



Humanity is more dominant in ME2 because at the end of ME1, the humans saved the day. Blame ME1 for that horrible, horrible tragedy. Clearly the volus should have saved the day in ME1 and we should be working with an Elcor group in ME2 and saving the batarian homeworld in ME3.

[darknoon5]

Spaedar wrote...



Biggest travesty in Mass Effect 2 to me was being forced to be buddy buddy with a pretty rotten bunch of xenophobes, I so did not enjoy that. And then that whole thing with having 3 human squad mates. How about just the ONE? Or at max 2? Aliens, please. More of them.

I don't like the way I feel the story is being angled at the moment, through the lead writer's comics that are in his own words a big deal for upcoming content. That is why I post in this thread.

In ME1, 1/3 of your team was human.
Discounting DLC, about 1/4 of your team in ME2 was human. So yeah...

Also, there is no xenophobes. The only real xenophobe is Ashley, and even then I'd argue she isn't, and she is a DUN DUN DUN ME1 squadmate.

You got a salarian, Drell and geth squadmate in ME2! Did you want more Aliens? That's 3 races we previously didn't have as squadmates in ME1. They also introduced 3 new races, and largely expanded on the Geth. What more do you want?

Also, you can ditch Cerberus. And it's not "buddying," you can insult them and denounce them regularly, but you needed their help to stop the collectors. Even if you give them the base, the relationship with TIM isn't exactly a "buddying" one...

nevar00 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Why
do people keep saying Harbinger is some sort of Reaper leader?
Soverign said they all were equal and each an "independent state"... or
something like that. Harbinger was just in charge of the Collectors and
their shenanigans, in the same way Soverign was in charge of having the
Keepers open the Citadel relay.

Which is why his appearance
stands out so much compared to the others, and he is in front of the
reapers descending on the galaxy.

Not hard proof, but that definetly suggests he is a leader, or figure of authority in the reaper fleet.

lol how could you tell it was him?  They all look the same.

He's
garunteed to show up again as he and Shephard have history; he might
even be the final boss, but it's not like he's the Reaper leader.

Err
the orange glowig eyes is how you tell it was him...oh and you know,
the datapad Joker shows you with the reaper that looks exactly the same.
Either way, that reaper at the front with glowing eyes is a leader of some sort.

They do not all look the same. Look around-there is variety in the appearance of the reapers in the fleet at the end of ME2.

Oh... wow, I er, never realized they all did look different.

There's
still no evidence that Harbinger is the leader though (not that it's a
big deal in this thread).  Someone had to be in the lead, might as well
be the guy who has history with Shephard already.

True there isn't any real evidence is a leader, but there is definetly hints that he is at least the one we will see as leader. He could be more like a speaker or ambassador, but he is still their leader to us.

Modifié par darknoon5, 19 février 2011 - 08:44 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Can't we take the ME1 vs ME2 argument somewhere else and direct our rage at the comic!

Somebody bring in the turian councilor to dismiss the whole thing.

[CroGamer002]

[quote]Babli wrote...

[/quote]
How? How would they get through defence of big colonies, not to mention Earth with that one ship of theirs?

[/quote]

I think there are over a million of humans in Terminus Systems.

They can always buy human slaves from Batarians, which they did.



Oh and thank for ignoring my other points.

[Whatever42]

ReconTeam wrote...

Can't we take the ME1 vs ME2 argument somewhere else and direct our rage at the comic!
Somebody bring in the turian councilor to dismiss the whole thing.

Actually, the writing in the whole series sucks. I think its fair that we direct our rage at all of Bioware for producing such awful writing and games.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 19 février 2011 - 08:48 .

[CottonBALL]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

This topic contains spoilers for issue 2 of the Evolution miniseries. Continue at your own risk.


First of all, let me say that the story taken on it's own merits is...ok. It tries to tell the origin of TIM by exploring people and places mass effect fans are already familiar with, which is understandable. If this story existed in a vacuum it might even be a fine little addition to the franchise. The problem is it contradicts so much that came before it and strains cedibility so much that my mind is literally boggled.


To sum up some of the new information this comic gives us:

1) Ash's grandfather didn't surrender Shanxi, nor did he leave the Alliance over that surrender. He left the Alliance because he hates aliens, including the Citadel.

2) Saren's brother wasn't some nameless soldier that died on Shanxi, thus cementing Saren's hatred of humanity. Saren's brother was the general in charge of the invasion, and he left Shanxi still alive and well.

3) At least part of the reason for Saren's brother being on Shanxi, and possibly the First Contact War itself, was to steal Reaper artifacts (yes, a high ranking turian general had at least limited knowledge of the Reapers 30 years before ME1).


So that's all surprising, given that it flatly contradicts so much of what we know from the games and books. But even the stuff that is at least theoretically consistent is...odd. TIM's being written as having a parallel story to Shepard. He's hit with a blast from an alien artifact, gets wierd visions and odd language abilities as a result, and then is given an advanced human warship to track down what it all means. He's even chasing a turian - Saren's brother, Desolas. Really? That's TIM's origin? He's renegade Shepard from 30 years ago?


The incongruities don't stop there. Within weeks of the end of the First Contact War TIM is on Illium. He even has a conversation with someone mentioning how close they are to the Terminus Systems. No explanation of how he knew where Illium was, or how he knew what the Terminus Systems are. No explanation about language barriers or technical problems like not having an omni tool; he even at one point pilots a flying car on Illium. WTH? They literally made first contact less than a year before. For most of that time he's been a guerrila fighter on Shanxi. There's no way he could know any of this unless it was part of his "Reaper download".


This comic is bizarre in it's constant disregard for continuity. The only thing it might help with is to explain some of the ME2 plot problems by saying that TIM already knew ahead of time what resources the Collectors had and who to send after them because the Reapers downloaded that information into his brain.

There's nothing condradictory here OP. If you read ME: Retribution, you would know that individual affected by reaper technology can learn things extremely fast and efficient. and all those continuity contradictions are easilly explained with some logics...

[Babli]

Mesina2 wrote...
I think there are over a million of humans in Terminus Systems.

They can always buy human slaves from Batarians, which they did.

It was clearly stated, that they needed much more humans that are in Terminus Systems.

Modifié par Babli, 19 février 2011 - 08:51 .

[KateKane]

The comic is awful and full of retcons?

How shocking.



OH WAIT

[CroGamer002]

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
I think there are over a million of humans in Terminus Systems.

They can always buy human slaves from Batarians, which they did.

It was clearly stated, that they needed much more humans that are in Terminus Systems.

Hmh. when did they said that for Human Reaper?

[Sable Phoenix]

Spaedar wrote...

Seriously.
This is not a Team Karpyshyn vs. Team Walters thread. Nor is is an "all hail Karpyshyn" thread.
Stop with the stupid. We are fully aware there is a team of writers behind the games.
A team of writers with one LEAD writer. And the current lead writer clashes a whole lot with the storytelling of the former lead writer.

Discuss the topic and stop derailing the thread. It's starting to feel like we're discussing sparkling vampires and shapeshifters with magical reappearing outfits.

What made Mass Effect so fantastic was the feeling of stepping into a living galaxy, full of culture and amazing aliens. It's the interaction with and the strong involvement with alien point of view that was one of the things that made it a very fresh feeling sci-fi game, well to me at least. And no, I'm not saying that has never been done before, but the way it was done in this game was fantastic.
I am kinda done with the whole "humanity made of 100% raw awesome" story. Humanity felt like a minority in Mass Effect 1, we weren't that big a deal, we weren't the big cheese, and I really liked that.

Biggest travesty in Mass Effect 2 to me was being forced to be buddy buddy with a pretty rotten bunch of xenophobes, I so did not enjoy that. And then that whole thing with having 3 human squad mates. How about just the ONE? Or at max 2? Aliens, please. More of them.

I don't like the way I feel the story is being angled at the moment, through the lead writer's comics that are in his own words a big deal for upcoming content. That is why I post in this thread.

Very good point about keeping to the topic.

I totally agree with the feeling of the first Mass Effect.  After going through it I thought that it was the most outstanding and different sci fi universe I had seen in a long time.  The politics and the marginal status of humans really made it stand out... it felt almost like a Tom Clancy novel in space with the political backdrop supporting a technothriller.  ME2 makes it feel more generic, somehow.  Probably because the politics is totally gone and humans are now the most important thing in the galaxy and seem to have transcended their minority status to become the most numerous race of all, as you were pointing out.

I don't have a problem with human squadmates though, that seems a bit of a minor and odd concern.