385 réponses à ce sujet

[Rzepik2]

This thread again? I guess it's Mike Laidlaw's fault, cause' he  compared DA2 to BG2 recently. Oh, Mr.  Laidlaw, do you actually believe what you're saying sometimes?

Let's put aside more subjective things like quality of writing, characters etc.
My main problem with DA:O (and probably DA2) - it fails at being non-linear. Let me explain. The only strong point of DA non-linearity are BIG flashy choices. Yes, they're cool, yes they're better than in BG. But it doesn't really matter because BG II feels like a free adventure all the time.
DA:O's main plot is just few big linear labirynths to pick in any order. BGII's first half are sidequests: big ones, small ones, easy and hard, all of them well-written, not some pathethic board quests. Do all of them, or none of them, do as you like. You also can start some bar fights, summon demons for lulz, fight hidden bosses, be a heroic klepto. You don't like the second part of the game? No problem, you can skip the underwater city. Or the whole underdark, just kill/fool Adalon. Yes because, because in this game you fight with anybody. It's your choice, because it's truly your story. Perfect plot - freedom balance.

Of course, I can understand that for some people main story and NPCs are the most important. That's cool. I hope they will not drown in the ocean of unavoidable repetetive filler battles just like in DA:O.
(And gods, I want them to fix most of DA:O mechanics drawbacks and lack of FF isn't helping)

Modifié par Rzepik2, 20 février 2011 - 01:06 .

[dragon_83]

Here, I found a present for you:

www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php

Modifié par dragon_83, 20 février 2011 - 12:02 .

[johannes1212]

Rzepik2 wrote...

This thread again? I guess it's Mike Laidlaw's fault, cause' he  compared DA2 to BG2 recently. Oh, Mr.  Laidlaw, do you actually believe what you're saying sometimes?

Let's put aside more subjective things like quality of writing, characters etc.
My main problem with DA:O (and probably DA2) - it fails at being non-linear. Let me explain. The only strong point of DA non-linearity are BIG flashy choices. Yes, they're cool, yes they're better than in BG. But it doesn't really matter because BG II feels like a free adventure all the time.
DA:O's main plot is just few big linear labirynths to pick in any order. BGII's first half are sidequests: big ones, small ones, easy and hard, all of them well-written, not some pathethic board quests. Do all of theam, or none of them, do as you like. You also can start some bar fights, summon demons for lulz, fight hidden bosses, be a heroic klepto. You don't like the second part of the game? No problem, you can skip underwater city. Or the whole underdark, just kill/fool Adalon. Yes because, because in this game you fight with anybody. It's your choice, because it's truly your story. Perfect plot - freedom balance.

Of course, I can understand that for some people main story and NPCs are the most important. That's cool. I just hope thay will not drown in the ocean of unavoidable repetetive filler battles just like in DA:O.
(And gods, I hope they fixed most of DA:O mechanics drawbacks, because lack of FF isn't helping)

Perfectly spoken, well said. I would also like to add that we may never see that level of choice in this current generation due to voice acting limitations, unless they manage to procedurally generate character voices/synthesize to fit certain plot divergences or requirements, I don't think its possible to have a story structure like we did in BG2. Voice in my opinion is this current gen's biggest limitation in role playing games, the process of creating and adding voices today is such a brute force method of recording thousands of lines and sinking huge amounts of resources to pay for the actors etc.
Aparrently the amount of texts games like Planescape Torment and BG2 had was astounding, enough to create multiple novels, I'm pretty sure that Jan Jansen (a minor companion) had more dialogue than Alistair does in DA:O, now thats saying something.

Modifié par johannes1212, 20 février 2011 - 12:12 .

[Cobrawar]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH OP is on crack

[The Elder King]

Cobrawar wrote...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH OP is on crack

Ot ti simply has a different opinion (though I disagree with him, but hey, my taste is not universal) You should learn to respect the opinion of everyone.

[Chriagon]

johannes1212 wrote...

Annette Tom wrote...

I'm pretty sure they scrapped the whole "spiritual successor to BGII." You know, because EA didn't own Bioware when it came out and we can't have an amazing game attributed to EA and possibly lifting its reputation, absolutely not. Plus BGII's graphics sucked!!!!! WHY CAN'T EVERY GAME BE CRYSIS!!!

Dunno about you but the graphics in BG2 were amazing and still are, notice that there are no reused areas in the game whatsoever, even the generic forest areas were radically different from one another. Every single area was handcrafted like a painting, try walking into one of the temples in the temple district and you'll see what I mean.

Yeah, every single area looks unique, the wonderful 2D graphics also make BG2 somewhat timeless.

[Rzepik2]

johannes1212 wrote...

Dunno about you but the graphics in BG2 were amazing and still are, notice that there are no reused areas in the game whatsoever, even the generic forest areas were radically different from one another. Every single area was handcrafted like a painting, try walking into one of the temples in the temple district and you'll see what I mean.

Actually, in BG2 there's few reused small areas. Not a big deal though. Athkatla is still a beautiful place.
Some of the modern cRPGs also care about level design, ME2 has some really good examples. DA:O not so much...

[PAS Alexandre]

Erani wrote...

Darth Hawke wrote...

For me, it's looking to be BioWare's worst game since Jade Empire

Blasphemy! :devil:J.E is a greatly underappreciated game. 'Tis awesome! <3

Jade Empire was great!

[MorrigansLove]

DRAGON AGE 2 - THE GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME!

[contextual_entity]

[redneck nosferatu]

ManiacalEvil wrote...

Much more deep and with an awesome story and characters, this will be the game to take the throne from BGII. just look at how amazingly relevant and deep the skill tree looks, compared to the redundant and overfilled mess that was BGII abilities. 

I don't think so, Tim.

[Vahe]

johannes1212 wrote...

Annette Tom wrote...

I'm pretty sure they scrapped the whole "spiritual successor to BGII." You know, because EA didn't own Bioware when it came out and we can't have an amazing game attributed to EA and possibly lifting its reputation, absolutely not. Plus BGII's graphics sucked!!!!! WHY CAN'T EVERY GAME BE CRYSIS!!!

Dunno about you but the graphics in BG2 were amazing and still are, notice that there are no reused areas in the game whatsoever, even the generic forest areas were radically different from one another. Every single area was handcrafted like a painting, try walking into one of the temples in the temple district and you'll see what I mean.

Planescape: Torment had way better graphics.  

[Merced652]

dragon_83 wrote...

Here, I found a present for you:

www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php

nooooooo, don't tell the BDF about rpgcodex lest they wish to bring their drivel there.

[The BUMFACE]

hhh89 wrote...

Cobrawar wrote...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH OP is on crack

Ot ti simply has a different opinion (though I disagree with him, but hey, my taste is not universal) You should learn to respect the opinion of everyone.

When the OP and his kru's main argument is "pfft, these people don't REALLY like BG2, they MUST just be blinded by NOSTALGIA to prefer it to our glorious next-gen cinematic experiences!" , it's hard to bother.

Man, Citizen Kane was on TV the other night. Why would they bother showing old boring stuff like that? I guess some people must just be nostalgic, there's no other reason to like it. Cinema has moved on, we have deeper films like Twilight now.

[The BUMFACE]

edit: double post

Modifié par The BUMFACE, 20 février 2011 - 04:22 .

[Merced652]

I guess some people must just be nostalgic, there's no other reason to like it. Cinema has moved on, we have deeper films like Twilight now.

OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIII

[Merced652]

From that rpgcodex thread:

Baldur's Gate 2 had more dragons in it than Dragon Age.

Technology has come a long way so maybe Dragon Age II will have twice
the amount of dragons who will all look worse compared to DA's.

And maybe one of them will be romanceable. *~SQUEE~*

Modifié par Merced652, 20 février 2011 - 04:43 .

[ladyofpayne]

For me DA 2 looks better. Because it has M+M LI. Because Thedas can change himself, FR is a static world. And childish. Thedas more mature, more cruel, more medival world.

[Walker White]

johannes1212 wrote...

I would also like to add that we may never see that level of choice in this current generation due to voice acting limitations, unless they manage to procedurally generate character voices/synthesize to fit certain plot divergences or requirements, I don't think its possible to have a story structure like we did in BG2. Voice in my opinion is this current gen's biggest limitation in role playing games, the process of creating and adding voices today is such a brute force method of recording thousands of lines and sinking huge amounts of resources to pay for the actors etc.
Aparrently the amount of texts games like Planescape Torment and BG2 had was astounding, enough to create multiple novels, I'm pretty sure that Jan Jansen (a minor companion) had more dialogue than Alistair does in DA:O, now thats saying something.

This is the most insightful post about this subject.  Voice acting means you either get open world without dialog-driven story (Assassins Creed), or less choices.

This is also why Indie RPGs are flourishing now.  They are catering to this niche market of people who want these types of games and do not miss the lack of voice acting.

[Merced652]

ladyofpayne wrote...
 Thedas more mature.

yikes

[TheSleazebag]

Thedas is mature in the same way as an aspergers case living in his mother's basement in his 40's is

[Pedrak]

I've posted this before:

http://www.escapistm...Voice-vs-Choice

Voice acting=good.
Full voice acting= not so much. Oh, it does have its advantages, but you lose depth and length for a more cinematic feeling blah blah blah.

As for the fact that old games looked poor, well, that's highly debatable. IE games had an excellent visual design and still look elegant to me.

In any case, people who like RPGs but have missed games like the BG series (or Torment, or Fallout, or Arcanum, Bloodlines, KOTOR 1&2) are like sci-fi fans who haven't seen Blade Runner or fantasy fans who have never read Tolkien. You're missing a lot, and know a lot less about the genre than those who have played them. Nothing to be *ashamed* of (you can find them on GOG and have lots of fun) but certainly nothing to be proud of in a "LOL, I'll never play that old crap" kind of way.
Saying that DA2 will be automatically better than those games 'cause it's new is like saying that a guy is automatically better than his father because he is younger =a major case of BS.

This doesn't mean that I won't play and enjoy DA2, as I did with DAO. It may not be BG, but it's as close as it gets today. But dissing old games because they are old, because of the graphics, the lack of VO or whatever, is just deeply sad.

Modifié par Pedrak, 20 février 2011 - 05:14 .

[AlanC9]

johannes1212 wrote...
Dunno about you but the graphics in BG2 were amazing and still are, notice that there are no reused areas in the game whatsoever, 

Actually, a few BG2 areas were copied right out of TotSC.