385 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

AlanC9 wrote...

johannes1212 wrote...
Dunno about you but the graphics in BG2 were amazing and still are, notice that there are no reused areas in the game whatsoever, 

Actually, a few BG2 areas were copied right out of TotSC.

This is true. Off the top of my head, Mekrath's dungeon (where you rescue Haer Dalis') is the uppe few levels of Durlag's tower. It was still way better than BG1. I LOVED SoA's environments.

[AlanC9]

Rzepik2 wrote...
My main problem with DA:O (and probably DA2) - it fails at being non-linear. Let me explain. The only strong point of DA non-linearity are BIG flashy choices. Yes, they're cool, yes they're better than in BG. But it doesn't really matter because BG II feels like a free adventure all the time.
DA:O's main plot is just few big linear labirynths to pick in any order. BGII's first half are sidequests: big ones, small ones, easy and hard, all of them well-written, not some pathethic board quests. Do all of them, or none of them, do as you like. You also can start some bar fights, summon demons for lulz, fight hidden bosses, be a heroic klepto. You don't like the second part of the game? No problem, you can skip the underwater city. Or the whole underdark, just kill/fool Adalon. Yes because, because in this game you fight with anybody. It's your choice, because it's truly your story. Perfect plot - freedom balance.

Note that balance like BG2's requires either ignoring consequences, having a main plot that isn't time-critical, or some blend of the two. BG2 works because it really doesn't matter when you go to Spellhold and the game doesn't actually enforce any consequences for the suposedly dire circumstances you're in after you do go there. BG1 works because Sarevok's waiting around for you to get to him. Morrowind works because Dagoth Ur's plot has been in motion for centuries, so a few years here and there are irrelevant.

Adding such freedom with DAO's plot would have meant making the Blight even less significant than it is.

I guess this means that I'm opposed to freedom in RPGs when it conflicts with the plot.

[Noilly Prat]

Rzepik2 wrote...


My main problem with DA:O (and probably DA2) - it fails at being non-linear. Let me explain. The only strong point of DA non-linearity are BIG flashy choices. Yes, they're cool, yes they're better than in BG. But it doesn't really matter because BG II feels like a free adventure all the time.
DA:O's main plot is just few big linear labirynths to pick in any order. BGII's first half are sidequests: big ones, small ones, easy and hard, all of them well-written, not some pathethic board quests. Do all of them, or none of them, do as you like. You also can start some bar fights, summon demons for lulz, fight hidden bosses, be a heroic klepto. You don't like the second part of the game? No problem, you can skip the underwater city. Or the whole underdark, just kill/fool Adalon. Yes because, because in this game you fight with anybody. It's your choice, because it's truly your story. Perfect plot - freedom balance.

Okay, I see what you're saying, and I kind of agree, but I have to say, I was pretty surprised when I started reading this post, because the main thing I remember about BG 2's main plot is that it sticks you on rails for the majority of the game.

Yes, chapter two was very open ended, and there were plenty of random side quests and other things to get yourself involved in throughout the rest of the game, but I never felt as though DA:O was especially lacking in this area.  I suppose I would say that DA:O's side quests felt a little more scripted-- in BG 2 you could walk into a tavern and start exploring and happen across some interesting things in the back rooms, for instance, and DA:O didn't really have a lot of stuff like this-- but honestly, I don't know if I'd call this a good or bad thing.  I missed some of that feel from BG 2, yes, but a lot of DA:O's quests felt better implemented, better tied in with the rest of the game, and often more interesting.

As for skipping the shark city and the Underdark... those are nice choices to have if you're a seasoned player, but on a first playthrough, it's kind of hard to tell that these are even options unless you accidentally stumble across them.

I have to say, though, I would love it if BioWare made a Dragon Age game or another new game with a section like BG 2's chapter two.

[AlanC9]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
This is true. Off the top of my head, Mekrath's dungeon (where you rescue Haer Dalis') is the uppe few levels of Durlag's tower. It was still way better than BG1. I LOVED SoA's environments.

Yeah, that's one I noticed the moment the map loaded. Some of the houses and caverns are lifted from BG1 proper too, but since they were generic in the first place they don't stand out so much.

[Sleek]

Im a PC gamer all the way , and the truth is DA2 is marketed to the younger console crowd and thats ok. Im not mad i hope its a great game for consoles . Im accepting the fact that Bioware is not for me. Im glad they are still making games for strictly PC. Happy Gaming simpletons .

[FellowerOfOdin]

ManiacalEvil wrote...

Much more deep and with an awesome story and characters, this will be the game to take the throne from BGII. just look at how amazingly relevant and deep the skill tree looks, compared to the redundant and overfilled mess that was BGII abilities. 

Troll or idiot, your choice.

[drahelvete]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

ManiacalEvil wrote...



Much more deep and with an awesome story and characters, this will be the game to take the throne from BGII. just look at how amazingly relevant and deep the skill tree looks, compared to the redundant and overfilled mess that was BGII abilities.

Troll or idiot, your choice.

Or maybe he simply has a different opinion from you?

[Melduran]

Sleek wrote...

Im a PC gamer all the way , and the truth is DA2 is marketed to the younger console crowd and thats ok. Im not mad i hope its a great game for consoles . Im accepting the fact that Bioware is not for me. Im glad they are still making games for strictly PC. Happy Gaming simpletons .

What are you talking about dude?  When was gaming acceptable for you when it envolved a pie chart eating stars while being chased by ghosts? Or maybe when the Italian guy jumped from the stack of  blocks to reach the flag?  If you have a problem with Bioware games then what are you playing thats RPG and satisfying? Eve? Since games became 3D its not possible to budget the same size and depth and expect it to be released within a set time frame.  Whatever you playing now must be incredible.

[Rzepik2]

drahelvete wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

ManiacalEvil wrote...

Much more deep and with an awesome story and characters, this will be the game to take the throne from BGII. just look at how amazingly relevant and deep the skill tree looks, compared to the redundant and overfilled mess that was BGII abilities.

Troll or idiot, your choice.

Or maybe he simply has a different opinion from you?

Dude... really?

[Anathemic]

Melduran wrote...

Sleek wrote...

Im a PC gamer all the way , and the truth is DA2 is marketed to the younger console crowd and thats ok. Im not mad i hope its a great game for consoles . Im accepting the fact that Bioware is not for me. Im glad they are still making games for strictly PC. Happy Gaming simpletons .

What are you talking about dude?  When was gaming acceptable for you when it envolved a pie chart eating stars while being chased by ghosts? Or maybe when the Italian guy jumped from the stack of  blocks to reach the flag?  If you have a problem with Bioware games then what are you playing thats RPG and satisfying? Eve? Since games became 3D its not possible to budget the same size and depth and expect it to be released within a set time frame.  Whatever you playing now must be incredible.

Game called The Witcher

[Gavinthelocust]

I will love DA2 but nothing can top Minsc and Boo.
Except Elder Scrolls. No can't say that here.

Modifié par Gavinthelocust, 20 février 2011 - 06:26 .

[drahelvete]

Rzepik2 wrote...
Dude... really?

I'm not saying the OP is right, I'm just saying there's no need to insult him.
People are entitled to their own opinions.

[Nerevar-as]

Melduran wrote...

Sleek wrote...

Im a PC gamer all the way , and the truth is DA2 is marketed to the younger console crowd and thats ok. Im not mad i hope its a great game for consoles . Im accepting the fact that Bioware is not for me. Im glad they are still making games for strictly PC. Happy Gaming simpletons .

What are you talking about dude?  When was gaming acceptable for you when it envolved a pie chart eating stars while being chased by ghosts? Or maybe when the Italian guy jumped from the stack of  blocks to reach the flag?  If you have a problem with Bioware games then what are you playing thats RPG and satisfying? Eve? Since games became 3D its not possible to budget the same size and depth and expect it to be released within a set time frame.  Whatever you playing now must be incredible.

I´d really like to know what the hurry was for DA2, to the point of cutting short plans for Origins, patching included. At least I hope this time the beta testing was done before declaring the game is Gold.

[FellowerOfOdin]

drahelvete wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...
Dude... really?

I'm not saying the OP is right, I'm just saying there's no need to insult him.
People are entitled to their own opinions.

There are opinions and...opinions. You can also have the opinion that a feather is heavier than a truck.

[Lennonkun]

drahelvete wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...
Dude... really?

I'm not saying the OP is right, I'm just saying there's no need to insult him.
People are entitled to their own opinions.

Some opinions are simply wrong, and do not fall under the "subjective" tent.

One such opinion is the works of bands like Creed or Nickelback being considered "good", a more relevant one, is what OP stated.

[The Elder King]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

drahelvete wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...
Dude... really?

I'm not saying the OP is right, I'm just saying there's no need to insult him.
People are entitled to their own opinions.

There are opinions and...opinions. You can also have the opinion that a feather is heavier than a truck.

 
The weight of a feather and of a truck don't change from people's opinion. A game, howewer, could be valued in different ways, because people like different things.
Not that I don't agree with you. DA2 will probably be a good game, maybe a great game, but IMO it couldn't be compared with BG2. But I also think that they are two different games.

Modifié par hhh89, 20 février 2011 - 06:43 .

[drahelvete]

Edit: 'd

Modifié par drahelvete, 20 février 2011 - 06:56 .

[Rzepik2]

AlanC9 wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...
My main problem with DA:O (and probably DA2) - it fails at being non-linear. Let me explain. The only strong point of DA non-linearity are BIG flashy choices. Yes, they're cool, yes they're better than in BG. But it doesn't really matter because BG II feels like a free adventure all the time.
DA:O's main plot is just few big linear labirynths to pick in any order. BGII's first half are sidequests: big ones, small ones, easy and hard, all of them well-written, not some pathethic board quests. Do all of them, or none of them, do as you like. You also can start some bar fights, summon demons for lulz, fight hidden bosses, be a heroic klepto. You don't like the second part of the game? No problem, you can skip the underwater city. Or the whole underdark, just kill/fool Adalon. Yes because, because in this game you fight with anybody. It's your choice, because it's truly your story. Perfect plot - freedom balance.

Note that balance like BG2's requires either ignoring consequences, having a main plot that isn't time-critical, or some blend of the two. BG2 works because it really doesn't matter when you go to Spellhold and the game doesn't actually enforce any consequences for the suposedly dire circumstances you're in after you do go there. BG1 works because Sarevok's waiting around for you to get to him. Morrowind works because Dagoth Ur's plot has been in motion for centuries, so a few years here and there are irrelevant.

Adding such freedom with DAO's plot would have meant making the Blight even less significant than it is.

I guess this means that I'm opposed to freedom in RPGs when it conflicts with the plot.

Still there's a lot of room for non-linear gameplay.
Look at the other side of the coin. DA:O's linearity sometimes works against the plot. It would make much more sense to simply kill Harrowmont, skip dwarven politics and the Deep Roads. (just like skipping the Underdark)
Bhelen tries to do that anyway. And many people hate the Deep Roads.
Of course DA:O allows you to skip the Fort Drakon...
...one of the best parts of the game. Geeee, thanks...

Modifié par Rzepik2, 20 février 2011 - 06:56 .

[Polemists05]

Some people claim rpg fans are not as vocal as other genre fans...then I read threads like this and am reminded, they are correct, they are far more vocal.

[Yrkoon]

AlanC9 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
This is true. Off the top of my head, Mekrath's dungeon (where you rescue Haer Dalis') is the uppe few levels of Durlag's tower. It was still way better than BG1. I LOVED SoA's environments.

Yeah, that's one I noticed the moment the map loaded. Some of the houses and caverns are lifted from BG1 proper too, but since they were generic in the first place they don't stand out so much.

Also

!) the interior of the Temple of Umberlee in Brynlaw is exactly same same as the one in the city of Baldur's gate.
2)The sewers under the temple district are the same as the ones under Baldurs Gate.
3) the interiors of temple(s) of Ilmater are exactly  the same in both games

[AlanC9]

Hey, you want the ability to skip only bad stuff?

I like the idea of simply assassinating Harrowmont. Wouldn't even be too hard to implement. But I'd never personally do it. Skip the Deep Roads and you skip the stuff after the Deep Roads. RP-wise I never play characters for whom this sort of thing would be the preferred option.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 février 2011 - 07:09 .

[Rzepik2]

drahelvete wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...
Dude... really?

I'm not saying the OP is right, I'm just saying there's no need to insult him.
People are entitled to their own opinions.

Okay...
(Maybe it's just me but OP looks like a 100% flame war bait.)

[ErichHartmann]

I really don't understand this thread. I have several RPGs installed on my computer. Spread the love!

[FellowerOfOdin]

hhh89 wrote...

The weight of a feather and of a truck don't change from people's opinion. A game, howewer, could be valued in different ways, because people like different things.
Not that I don't agree with you. DA2 will probably be a good game, maybe a great game, but IMO it couldn't be compared with BG2. But I also think that they are two different games.

My point is that OP is just throwing a bait out there. I even doubt that he ever played Baldur's Gate 2 to begin with plus you can't really compare BG II to DA2 anyway as both games target a very different audience...yeesh, to need to make a long post out of it in such a terrible spam / troll thread.

[Yrkoon]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...
plus you can't really compare BG II to DA2 anyway as both games target a very different audience...

Do they?