385 réponses à ce sujet

[Melduran]

I felt the urge in butting in because you stated a statement full of crap, what is it?

" If you have a problem with Bioware games then what are you playing thats RPG and satisfying?"

What kind of statement is this? BioWare isn't the only company that maeks RPGs, many other people play non-BioWare RPGs and enjoy it. Seriously I don't mind fanboys but actually use logic in your argument.

Re-read what you wrote and if it doesn't hit you read it again and again and again, ill give you a hint re-read it with a actual question in mind.

[Rzepik2]

Yrkoon wrote...

  Sure.  I'm not disagreeing with the notion, I'm just trying to understand  what  exactly those two audiences are.

BG2 was not a niche game.  It appealed to a vast Story *and*  tactical combat RPG fanbase.    DA:O did too.   But yeah, I think the Devs have made it clear that they're trying to appeal to a broader audience with DA2,  But when it's all said and done, and the game comes out and people discover whether or not their paranoia  was justified, I don't think DA2 will alienate the Story-based RPG fan  (read:  Bg2's core fanbase.)

They certainly haven't alienated me with  those changes they've been advertising.

I'm not sure if "Bg2's core fanbase" = Story-based RPG fans
If I would be a story guy, I would be replaying Torment for the thousand time, not BG.

[AlanC9]

Fadook wrote...
Disagree completely. It's pretty clear to me that BW are trying to make a game that will attract the old-school BG crowd as well as the many customers who want a more fast-paced, visceral experience. Fro what I've seen on these forums, a lot of the BG2 fans have played Origins and will play DA2, perhaps realising that DA is the closest they're going to get to the days of the Infinity Engine games. 

And then there are folks who were part of the old-school BG crowd who, I guess, have been drummed out of that crowd for thinking that the game hasn't aged all that well, and that Bio does a lot of things better nowadays than they did back then.

[Gorthaur X]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Look, in all honesty right now, in 2011, BG2 gameplay can be considered crap. And that's not a bad or outrageous thing, it's just that industry evolves. Thing that are amazing at first later on become outdated and even later they become bad.
It's similar to hygiene. What was awesome in 10th century is disgusting in 21st.
BG2 was a good game, but you can't compare it to a game from 2011. This is ridiculous.

Yes. Any game older than two years is hopelessly obsolete.

The only thing that has objectively gotten better in the years since Baldur's Gate's release is the computational power of the hardware affordable to the average consumer. If you're the sort of person who thinks 3D art is inherently superior to 2D, then yes, you can say that old games are obsolete in terms of audiovisual presentation (though not everyone would agree with even that - personally, I think the distant bird's eye view of the IE games works better than any 3D possible with current technology: the former forces you to fill in the minute details with your imagination, whereas the latter takes you up close and down deep into the uncanny valley).

But be that as it may, it's completely absurd to suggest that a game made a decade ago is automatically obsolete in terms of design or gameplay, when there are games still popular in the world today that date back thousands of years.

[Anathemic]

Melduran wrote...

I felt the urge in butting in because you stated a statement full of crap, what is it?

" If you have a problem with Bioware games then what are you playing thats RPG and satisfying?"

What kind of statement is this? BioWare isn't the only company that maeks RPGs, many other people play non-BioWare RPGs and enjoy it. Seriously I don't mind fanboys but actually use logic in your argument.

Re-read what you wrote and if it doesn't hit you read it again and again and again, ill give you a hint re-read it with a actual question in mind.

Really?

------------

" If you have a problem with Bioware games then what are you playing thats RPG and satisfying?"

Why yes I do have a small problem with current BioWare games. The RPG I'm playing that's satisfying? Well I play The Witcher, it is both a RPG and induces satisfaction.

----------

What's your point?

[Merced652]

AlanC9 wrote...

Fadook wrote...
Disagree completely. It's pretty clear to me that BW are trying to make a game that will attract the old-school BG crowd as well as the many customers who want a more fast-paced, visceral experience. Fro what I've seen on these forums, a lot of the BG2 fans have played Origins and will play DA2, perhaps realising that DA is the closest they're going to get to the days of the Infinity Engine games. 

And then there are folks who were part of the old-school BG crowd who, I guess, have been drummed out of that crowd for thinking that the game hasn't aged all that well, and that Bio does a lot of things better nowadays than they did back then.

Not sure but i'm pretty sure thats how indentifying with specific groups works? You associate with them because you fundamentally agree with their assessments on given issues. You disagree and you can more readily associate with an opposing view. So you think VO's, ridiculous combat, weapons, and some retarded obcession with dark, gritty, and sexy is cool. I don't. Sorry we can't be in the same club.

[Lord Gremlin]

Lennonkun wrote...

It's people like you that make me hate this generation.

To use a music analogy, you just told me *insert current MTV rapper* is a better musician than the early Gregorian chants.

Remember how before I said some "opinions" are not subjective? This is one of them.

Is it an unfair comparison? Of course! But so is what you said.

Well, I've seen several generations of gaming and always lusted for something more advanced and good looking. So, I've been excited for Doom, then for Quake and Unreal etc. ect.
My main point however is that some things that seemed acceptable back then are no longer acceptable now. By now I'm expecting the game to provide a good show with nice visuals from the first minute. And once it does,  I check how's everything else to form an opinion. Game really can't afford to start slow and difficult nowadays.
Mainly because audience is older.

[AlanC9]

Merced652 wrote...
Not sure but i'm pretty sure thats how indentifying with specific groups works? You associate with them because you fundamentally agree with their assessments on given issues. You disagree and you can more readily associate with an opposing view. So you think VO's, ridiculous combat, weapons, and some retarded obcession with dark, gritty, and sexy is cool. I don't. Sorry we can't be in the same club. 

Hey, I'm proud to be thrown out of any club if believin anything as idiotic as the bolded sentence is a requirement for membership.

[Merced652]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Lennonkun wrote...

It's people like you that make me hate this generation.

To use a music analogy, you just told me *insert current MTV rapper* is a better musician than the early Gregorian chants.

Remember how before I said some "opinions" are not subjective? This is one of them.

Is it an unfair comparison? Of course! But so is what you said.

Well, I've seen several generations of gaming and always lusted for something more advanced and good looking. So, I've been excited for Doom, then for Quake and Unreal etc. ect.
My main point however is that some things that seemed acceptable back then are no longer acceptable now. By now I'm expecting the game to provide a good show with nice visuals from the first minute. And once it does,  I check how's everything else to form an opinion. Game really can't afford to start slow and difficult nowadays.
Mainly because audience is older.

[Lord Gremlin]

Merced652 wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...


Well, I've seen several generations of gaming and always lusted for something more advanced and good looking. So, I've been excited for Doom, then for Quake and Unreal etc. ect.
My main point however is that some things that seemed acceptable back then are no longer acceptable now. By now I'm expecting the game to provide a good show with nice visuals from the first minute. And once it does,  I check how's everything else to form an opinion. Game really can't afford to start slow and difficult nowadays.
Mainly because audience is older.

Ah, come on. Older audience has less free time. And I didn't say anything about psychological age. I need to entertain my inner child, that litte sadist:ph34r:

[Merced652]

AlanC9 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
Not sure but i'm pretty sure thats how indentifying with specific groups works? You associate with them because you fundamentally agree with their assessments on given issues. You disagree and you can more readily associate with an opposing view. So you think VO's, ridiculous combat, weapons, and some retarded obcession with dark, gritty, and sexy is cool. I don't. Sorry we can't be in the same club. 

Hey, I'm proud to be thrown out of any club if believin anything as idiotic as the bolded sentence is a requirement for membership.

Your friends in the BDF will undoubtedly be disappointed then that you apparently don't share their enthusiasm for the bolded.

Modifié par Merced652, 20 février 2011 - 10:24 .

[Merced652]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...


Well, I've seen several generations of gaming and always lusted for something more advanced and good looking. So, I've been excited for Doom, then for Quake and Unreal etc. ect.
My main point however is that some things that seemed acceptable back then are no longer acceptable now. By now I'm expecting the game to provide a good show with nice visuals from the first minute. And once it does,  I check how's everything else to form an opinion. Game really can't afford to start slow and difficult nowadays.
Mainly because audience is older.

Ah, come on. Older audience has less free time. And I didn't say anything about psychological age. I need to entertain my inner child, that litte sadist:ph34r:

In my ever more rapid advance to the mark of over the hill i haven't experienced any rabid sense of impatience or unexplained change in taste. So while i can appreciate that the older you get the less free time you have; i have obsolutely no idea why that makes flashy, over the top, viscereal gameplay any more appealing now than it did before.

[Noilly Prat]

I didn't bring up The Witcher's story earlier because I was just pointing out some aspects of the game which are shallow, as a counterpoint to the claim (which I have frequently heard elsewhere, if not in this topic) that it is better than Dragon Age or Mass Effect or any other game which appears on consoles for the sole reason that it is PC exclusive and, therefore, not "dumbed down."

I agree that storytelling is The Witcher's strong point, and that's the real reason I enjoy the game.  It's also the main reason I play BioWare games.  (Although, if truth be told, I liked DA's story, characters, and dialogue more than The Witcher's.  I couldn't speculate as to whether The Witcher's comparative dialogue shortcomings are due to a subpar translation or a subpar script, though, as I don't know Polish.  I'm assuming that TW 2 will get a much better English localization, as opposed to the first game's hit-or-miss patch-up with the Enhanced Edition.)

All the same, I would always prefer playing a game with great gameplay and great storytelling rather than just one or the other, and I'm hoping that TW 2 and DA 2 will both deliver the goods in both areas.

Modifié par Noilly Prat, 20 février 2011 - 11:10 .

[RohanD]

Umm, no.

[AlanC9]

Merced652 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
So you think VO's, ridiculous combat, weapons, and some retarded obcession with dark, gritty, and sexy is cool. I don't. Sorry we can't be in the same club. 

Hey, I'm proud to be thrown out of any club if believin anything as idiotic as the bolded sentence is a requirement for membership.

Your friends in the BDF will undoubtedly be disappointed then that you apparently don't share their enthusiasm for the bolded.

Wow. You're really that clueless? Or are you joking?

[Sharn01]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...


Well, I've seen several generations of gaming and always lusted for something more advanced and good looking. So, I've been excited for Doom, then for Quake and Unreal etc. ect.
My main point however is that some things that seemed acceptable back then are no longer acceptable now. By now I'm expecting the game to provide a good show with nice visuals from the first minute. And once it does,  I check how's everything else to form an opinion. Game really can't afford to start slow and difficult nowadays.
Mainly because audience is older.

Ah, come on. Older audience has less free time. And I didn't say anything about psychological age. I need to entertain my inner child, that litte sadist:ph34r:

In my experiance the older audience playes fewer games but wants the ones they do play to be very good and have some length to them.  The main reason they are making games the way they are today has nothing to do with age but to bring in a broader audience.  Video games makers dont want to appeal to niche followers as they once did, and playing video games stopped being taboo a long time ago despite how some shallow television shows or reporters still want to paint gamers as nerds and outliers to normal society.

[HolyAvenger]

I'll be extremely (pleasantly) surprised if DA2 is a patch on BG2 story/character/writing wise.

[Mad-Max90]

When will you guys get off the BG tip, if they released BG2 last month the way it was, you guys would not praise it, why because its clunky, and it's not pretty at all. "Oh but you can't compare the two" you all say, yet it's you guys who compare every bioware game to BG. Now that the game has a serious contender you say you can't compare the two. Don't even get me started on the witcher fanboys who like posting their own adds on these forums that's just downright disrespectful, not to mention the witcher is just based off of a crappy lord of the rings knockoff book, and baulder's gate was after years of dnd books, now bioware created their own fantasy world and as I see and read more about it the more I realise how great and ORIGINAL it is. /rant

[Chaudron]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

When will you guys get off the BG tip, if they released BG2 last month the way it was, you guys would not praise it, why because its clunky, and it's not pretty at all. t

No, I'm sure if they released a new Baldur's Gate now with the same depth as the previous ones, even with the infinity engine, everybody that played BG1/2 would **** their pants in anticipation.

Modifié par Chaudron, 21 février 2011 - 07:43 .

[Lennonkun]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

When will you guys get off the BG tip, if they released BG2 last month the way it was, you guys would not praise it, why because its clunky, and it's not pretty at all. "Oh but you can't compare the two" you all say, yet it's you guys who compare every bioware game to BG. Now that the game has a serious contender you say you can't compare the two. Don't even get me started on the witcher fanboys who like posting their own adds on these forums that's just downright disrespectful, not to mention the witcher is just based off of a crappy lord of the rings knockoff book, and baulder's gate was after years of dnd books, now bioware created their own fantasy world and as I see and read more about it the more I realise how great and ORIGINAL it is. /rant

BG2 is compared to every Bioware game because it is their crowning achievment, of course everything Bioware makes will be scaled against BG2.

Also, if BG2 came out today, it'd probobly look better than DA2 as the Infinity Engine for its time was actually pretty good, compared to the current DA engine which is showing its age.

Sometimes I wish Bioware would just remake BG1 and 2, but not only will it never happen, it'd probobly lose its magic like most remakes.

[AlanC9]

Lennonkun wrote...


Also, if BG2 came out today, it'd probobly look better than DA2 as the Infinity Engine for its time was actually pretty good, compared to the current DA engine which is showing its age.

You mean some sort of hypothetical BG2 designed around a modern engine, right?

Even on those terms, I'm not sure. BG2's conversations are actually kind of weak in terms of options offered, especially on the romance tracks. 

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 février 2011 - 08:32 .

[Lennonkun]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lennonkun wrote...


Also, if BG2 came out today, it'd probobly look better than DA2 as the Infinity Engine for its time was actually pretty good, compared to the current DA engine which is showing its age.

You mean some sort of hypothetical BG2 designed around a modern engine, right.?

Err yes, didn't see that part of his post.

If it was released today as is, then it'd likely be viewed as an indie/low budget masterpiece.

[SudsyPatriarch]

i wish they would just put Dragon age to rest and let me return to Amn ;__;

[KLUME777]

Darth Hawke wrote...

For me, it's looking to be BioWare's worst game since Jade Empire Mass Effect series.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Baldur's Gate II is my favorite game but it's not the gameplay or great writing that makes me want to replay it over and over again. It's all the excellent mods that are available and since the game is 11 years old there are a lot of great once out there. Without the mods the game would get boring and repetitive after a while. /This is my personal opinion.