193 réponses à ce sujet

[Adhin]

So THAT'S what glancing blows are in DA2! Wow that's... more awesome then I was thinking. Also explains why base attack can cause FF (but always glancing blows vs buddies). So If I could get dodge on Isabella, would that mean it would, basically, remove my warriors glancing blow FF against her? or is that an enemy only thing?

[Sabresandiego]

Im still wondering if Im playing on nightmare and use whirlwind, and my companion rogue is in range of being hit by friendly fire whirlwind, does my companion have a chance to dodge my whirlwind based on defense, or will it automatically cause friendly fire and not do a defense check?

[Adhin]

I think that counts as direct FF. The auto-attack (base) is the one that always comes up as a glancing blow.

[-Skorpious-]

I'm still interested in knowing if cunning is an important stat for tanks now. I personally don't believe so, as evasion tanking is more for rogues, while warrior tanks should rely on their armor and constitution for damage resistance/mitigation rather than their likelihood to dodging incoming bows.

[godlike13]

Peter Thomas wrote...
All attacks, spells and abilities that do damage (or force) can be critical hits.

Does that apply to damage over time spells like Corrosive Walking Bomb and Crushing Prison?

[FieryDove]

Peter Thomas wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

I've probably missed something, but do mages get critical hits now?

Good question! If they do does that mean attacks can miss now? Just miss not blocked by something...

All basic attacks for all classes have a to-hit roll. If it's not a hit, party members don't miss, they glance (less than normal damage, depending on difficulty). Abilities hit by default.

Enemies with displacement (I think it's called Dodge ingame) can be completely missed.

All attacks, spells and abilities that do damage (or force) can be critical hits.

thank you x1000!

[Fadook]

-Skorpious- wrote...

I'm still interested in knowing if cunning is an important stat for tanks now. I personally don't believe so, as evasion tanking is more for rogues, while warrior tanks should rely on their armor and constitution for damage resistance/mitigation rather than their likelihood to dodging incoming bows.

I think it partly depends on what difficulty you're planning to play on. In Origins on Nightmare, a sword and board character was much better off having high defence (and therefore dexterity) than high consitution or armour because you took more damage when you got hit. In fact, I think having high dexterity was better on any level of difficulty because dexterity boosted your attack rating as well as your defence. Consitution was actually pretty worthless for anyone other than a Blood Mage.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Peter Thomas wrote...

Not exactly... Enemies scale on encounter activation, but not necessarily to the player's level. On Area Enter scaling doesn't work if you keep going back to an area over the course of an act/chapter with new encounters popping up.

That's only true if you actually want the PC not to outclass the enemies.  If you do, then On Area Enter scaling works very well.

I like On Area Enter scaling.  DAO's scaling was the best I've seen from BioWare in many years.

But it's also no fun to maintain the same level of difficulty over the course of the entire game. Our current scaling allows the player to get ahead, making things easier, before encounters catch back up.

Whether the encounters catching back up is a good thing remains to be seen.

[HTTP 404]

wow, is it just me or do critical hits seem more "important" this time around? I think it could be a good idea.

[HTTP 404]

-Skorpious- wrote...

I'm still interested in knowing if cunning is an important stat for tanks now. I personally don't believe so, as evasion tanking is more for rogues, while warrior tanks should rely on their armor and constitution for damage resistance/mitigation rather than their likelihood to dodging incoming bows.

im conflicted on this as well.  for a two handed warrior (or any for that matter) is it better to have con or cun? or split between them?

[MewtwoJosh]

So will mages needs cunning or can we go all magic and willpower?

[HTTP 404]

MewtwoJosh wrote...

So will mages needs cunning or can we go all magic and willpower?

I think its more beneficial to be more spread out more than just two attributes. I think three attributes may do the trick.

for my warrior build as I see it now would be like this

2 str 1 con
next level
1 str 1 cun 1 ?

rinse and repeat.  probably wrong but from reading this thread it sounds like something to do.  I assume a mage build would be just as diverse.

[godlike13]

MewtwoJosh wrote...

So will mages needs cunning or can we go all magic and willpower?

If u want ur mage to be more sturdy, then it probably wouldn't hurt to put points in cunning, and given spells can now doe criticals. A little dex probably wont hurt either.

[godlike13]

HTTP 404 wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

I'm still interested in knowing if cunning is an important stat for tanks now. I personally don't believe so, as evasion tanking is more for rogues, while warrior tanks should rely on their armor and constitution for damage resistance/mitigation rather than their likelihood to dodging incoming bows.

im conflicted on this as well.  for a two handed warrior (or any for that matter) is it better to have con or cun? or split between them?

In another thread,

Peter Thomas wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Is cunning a stat worth investing him for warrior tanks? I assume that defense/dodge rating is more beneficial to a rogue (for tanking purposes) while a warrior would be better off using talents such as Shield Wall, Turn the Blase, or tank-based plate equipment with +defense to improve his/her dodge rating.

For me, Aveline was roughly equal Str, Cun and Con.

[HTTP 404]

godlike13 wrote...

In another thread,

Peter Thomas wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Is cunning a stat worth investing him for warrior tanks? I assume that defense/dodge rating is more beneficial to a rogue (for tanking purposes) while a warrior would be better off using talents such as Shield Wall, Turn the Blase, or tank-based plate equipment with +defense to improve his/her dodge rating.

For me, Aveline was roughly equal Str, Cun and Con.

ah thanks! thats what I was think of doing making Cun and Con equal and Str more than both to help being a two-hander.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 21 février 2011 - 10:32 .

[Loc'n'lol]

MewtwoJosh wrote...

So will mages needs cunning or can we go all magic and willpower?

It depends how much of a glass cannon you want to be I suppose, and how much you expect your mage to be under attack from stray enemies. If your tanking is masterful you may not need to increase defense and barely need to increase HP. Dex might be a good investment in the long run, to get high critical chances on spells and basic attacks. It's hard to say now.

[godlike13]

distinguetraces wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...
Dex might be a good investment in the long run, to get high critical chances on spells and basic attacks.

Is it confirmed that all spells and staff attacks also have a crit chance based on Dex?

Yes, in this thread even.

[-Skorpious-]

What endgame stats should I be aiming for if I am the party tank? STR and CON are musts, but I have to factor in WILL and CUN as well now.

[timski]

In the demo, the 100% displayed in the main UI is against normal enemies. Hover over, and the tooltip displays percentages for a lieutenant and boss enemy.



Here's the catch: In order to maintain 100% attack against a boss, you'll need to spend around 2 out of 3 attribute points on your primary stat, all 3 points for the first (approximately) 4 levels to get up to 100%. On defense, pumping Cunning is far less effective against bosses than regular mobs: While a Cunning-based tank can be made almost invulnerable to grunts, they will continue to take significant damage from bosses.



This opens up some intriguing possibilities, such as party members built specifically for tough boss fights, who are only switched into the party when needed. It's also clear that there can be characters built primarily for their abilities, who can low-ball on primary stats, because abilities hit by default (to quote Mr. Thomas). Likewise, it may be perfectly viable (if a little unpredictable) to have low attack values, but stack dexterity for crits - sometimes you'll glance for minimal damage, sometimes inflict massive damage. It also changes the discussion about tanks, since routinely evading bosses will be tough.



I think it will be hard to resolve this without playing through the game...

[timski]

Some serious attack numbers from the demo:

"Attack determines the likelihood that a normal strike from a weapon or staff will succeed in hitting an enemy." Abilities hit by default.

First, we calculate the raw attack value, which I'll call r.

r = 14.52 * EXP( 0.1142 * p )

where p is the primary attribute: Strength for warrior, Dexterity for rogues, Magic for mages. That is, r = 14.52e0.1142p . Exponential relationship, tested up to p=31.

The actual attack percentages then vary by:

1. Separate attack percentages for normal (n%), lieutenant (l%) and boss (b%) enemies.

2. As your level rises, the percentage values for the same values of r (and p) decline.

The first relationship is a bit complex, so I've reproduced a complete set of values at level 6. (Carver conveniently isn't levelled up at all at the start of the Kirkwall sequence of the demo.)

p_ . . r__ . . n%_ . . l%_ . . b%_
----------------------------------
13 . . 064 . . 053 . . 038 . . 023
14 . . 072 . . 055 . . 040 . . 025
15 . . 081 . . 058 . . 043 . . 028
16 . . 090 . . 063 . . 048 . . 033
17 . . 101 . . 070 . . 055 . . 040
18 . . 114 . . 082 . . 067 . . 052
19 . . 127 . . 100 . . 085 . . 070 <-- Level 6 Optimum?
20 . . 143 . . 100 . . 089 . . 074
21 . . 160 . . 100 . . 093 . . 078
22 . . 179 . . 100 . . 097 . . 082
23 . . 201 . . 100 . . 100 . . 087
24 . . 225 . . 100 . . 100 . . 091
25 . . 252 . . 100 . . 100 . . 095
26 . . 283 . . 100 . . 100 . . 099
27 . . 318 . . 100 . . 100 . . 100
28 . . 355 . . 100 . . 100 . . 100
29 . . 400 . . 100 . . 100 . . 100
30 . . 448 . . 100 . . 100 . . 100
31 . . 501 . . 100 . . 100 . . 100

Up until p=19 (eg Warrior Strength 19), all 3 percentage values rise exponentially, albeit from different starting values, so that n% (normal) is always higher than l% (lieutenant), higher than b% (boss). These rise until n%=100 (and l%=85, b%=70). Thereafter, all percentages rise by approximately 4% per extra point of p, up to a cap of 100%.

Result: Increases to the primary attribute (p) gives increasingly returns to attack percentage up to 100%. After that the gains from each point of primary attribute are much smaller, and fixed, not exponetial. However, unless you are solely interested in boss fights, increases after n=100% are actually diminishing, because only a proportion of your enemies are effected.

On level we have a problem - only 2 clear data points for n=100%: Level 2 = 13 primary attribute, Level 6 = 19. So is that a linear relationship, or exponetial? Unfortunately the only middle data point we have isn't conclusive. Here's a level 3 table:

p_ . . r__ . . n%_ . . l%_ . . b%_
----------------------------------
13 . . 064 . . 075 . . 060 . . 045
14 . . 072 . . 090 . . 075 . . 060
15 . . 081 . . 100 . . 087 . . 072 <-- Level 3 Optimum?
16 . . 090 . . 100 . . 091 . . 076
17 . . 101 . . 100 . . 095 . . 080
18 . . 114 . . 100 . . 100 . . 085
19 . . 127 . . 100 . . 100 . . 089

While 15 primary attribute (p) is required to reach n=100%, the pattern suggests that the true value of p where n=100% is between 14 and 15.

Result: I suspect that the level relationship is linear, a simple: Normal enemy attack percantage (n) is precisely 100% (and hence optimum point spend) where the primary attribute (p) = 10 + ( level * 1.5 ) . In practical terms, the primary attribute must always be rounded up to the nearest whole value.

(Defense uses a similar sort of pattern - I'll post that analysis later.)

Modifié par timski, 23 février 2011 - 06:37 .

[Elite Midget]

Cunning looks wrong. In the Demo it states that Cunning does Crit 'and' it effects the characters defense.

[Vena_86]

I don't really get the Attack thing. I never saw a character miss a single melee attack.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Whether the encounters catching back up is a good thing remains to be seen.

This is a coherence problem. If encounters catch up, that isn't per se bad. It's just that the same enemies shouldn't catch up.