193 réponses à ce sujet

[jheise4321]

Lets say you are level 6 with 127 attack (100%). Heroic aura gives 15% i think? So does that mean i have 146 attack (127*1.25) or are the percentages added (100%+15%)? I know you can't get over 100% but this is for an example.

[godlike13]

TaHol wrote...

So...my favorites in DA:O were rogues with high cunning (much higher than dex), where I could take advantage of lethality. Now, is this gone, and should rogues be more based in having high dex with some strenght and cunning?

High dex with cunning and some will, would be my suggestion.

Modifié par godlike13, 25 février 2011 - 06:42 .

[Sabresandiego]

its +15% not *15%. basically its additive not multiplicative.

[jheise4321]

Sabresandiego wrote...

its +15% not *15%. basically its additive not multiplicative.

Ok thanks!

[Sabresandiego]

godlike13 wrote...

TaHol wrote...

So...my favorites in DA:O were rogues with high cunning (much higher than dex), where I could take advantage of lethality. Now, is this gone, and should rogues be more based in having high dex with some strenght and cunning?

High dex with cunning and some will, would be my suggestion.

Cunning is not a good stat to invest just a little into going by the math in this thread which is derived from the demo. Either you put nothing in cunning, or at least half your points in cunning.

[Altima Darkspells]

Also something to consider--looking at the items we pick up, many of them have bonuses to stamina/mana or stamina/mana regeneration, further encouraging the fact that willpower may not need to be invested in at all.



Frankly, at the end of the day, all this is conjecture until we can get our hands on the in-game equipment. Investing in Cunning may be pointless right now, but equipment may scale to the point where warriors may find it beneficial to invest a point in cunning every now and then.



Personally, I'm liking the two points in the class primary stat and one point somewhere else (usually con). The only builds I wouldn't do that in would be dual wielding rogue (due to investing in both dex and cunning is great) and possibly sword-and-shield tanking warrior, since she should be the one taking all the mob hits.

[Sabresandiego]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Also something to consider--looking at the items we pick up, many of them have bonuses to stamina/mana or stamina/mana regeneration, further encouraging the fact that willpower may not need to be invested in at all.

Frankly, at the end of the day, all this is conjecture until we can get our hands on the in-game equipment. Investing in Cunning may be pointless right now, but equipment may scale to the point where warriors may find it beneficial to invest a point in cunning every now and then.

Personally, I'm liking the two points in the class primary stat and one point somewhere else (usually con). The only builds I wouldn't do that in would be dual wielding rogue (due to investing in both dex and cunning is great) and possibly sword-and-shield tanking warrior, since she should be the one taking all the mob hits.

You can dabble in cunning if you are wearing equipment that boosts your cunning to effective levels, that is true. 

[HolyAvenger]

Hmm if bosses do massive damage then does the extra HP become less useful as a build?

[Sabresandiego]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Hmm if bosses do massive damage then does the extra HP become less useful as a build?

No idea what you mean

[HolyAvenger]

Sabresandiego wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Hmm if bosses do massive damage then does the extra HP become less useful as a build?

No idea what you mean

Well your rationalization for picking con over cunning as a stat is that a con build gives more survivability in boss fights for equal points investment yes? But if bosses are inflicting way more damage per hit (which they will) does it then change things to go back to investing in cunning and avoiding getting hit altogethe ie. in boss fights that extra HP pool is not that useful as bosses chew through HP?

[timski]

This depends what a "boss fight" looks like:



Cunning is almost useless against boss-level enemies. Even my "optimum" point spend only give a 10% chance to avoid boss attacks, up from the 5% you get with no points invested. Spend every point you get in Cunning and you'd only evade about half a boss's attacks.



However, all the big demo fights feature a boss-type enemy alongside waves of normal enemies. Attacks from those normal enemies will be greatly reduced by an optimum Cunning spend.



So the questions are along the lines of: How much damage is coming from the boss, and how much from the "adds"? How easy is it for either the boss or additional normal enemies to overwhelm the tank? All very situational questions that are very hard to answer without having even played through the game once.

[Ultimecia]

Don't forget Cunning has 2 sides, it's also a dps stat.



From the math in this topic I might settle on a 1Str/1.5Cun/0.5Con sort of build, IF (big if) weapon damage's contribution to dps is significant enough to still do effective damage.

From reading through some data Brittle seems to increase crits by 25%, seem to stack incredibly well with Muscle/Cunning/Death Hex CCC with Cone of Cold - Petrify (into Whirlwind Chain Lightning? )

[HolyAvenger]

timski wrote...


So the questions are along the lines of: How much damage is coming from the boss, and how much from the "adds"? How easy is it for either the boss or additional normal enemies to overwhelm the tank? All very situational questions that are very hard to answer without having even played through the game once.

Completely agree regarding the complexity of the picture. Hence why I think its silly to write of cunning and pump con based on a simplistic mathematical model that does not capture the whole situation.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Yeah, defense against the boss's horde is good. When you take out the horde you can dodge at least some of the boss's attacks (at least the ogre's.)

[Sabresandiego]

Timski, in your example at the beginning of this thread you are raising bethanies damage by raising strength. That is impossible and a typo, I think you meant magic.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 25 février 2011 - 07:54 .

[Sabresandiego]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Yeah, defense against the boss's horde is good. When you take out the horde you can dodge at least some of the boss's attacks (at least the ogre's.)

The math shows that constitution is better than cunning against bosses. Cunning also doesnt protect you from persistant AOE damage while constitution does. Warrior tanks should focus on constitution rather than cunning. A good build for warrior tanks is 1 str 2 constitution per level.

Cunning is ideal for a dual wield rogue, because they have 3 abilities which are guaranteed to crit when upgraded (backstab, explosive strike, and twin fangs). It also makes the rogue very hard to hit, but still not able to tank bosses. A good build for a dual wield rogue is 1 dex 2 cunning per level.

My initial recommendations for the other classes are:

Tank: 1 str 2 con
DPS War: 3 str, or 1 str 2 wil (min/maxed for final blow)
Archer: 3 dex
Dual Weps: 1 dex 2 cun
DPS Mage: 3 mag, or 2 mag 1 wil, or 1 mag 2 wil
Support Mage: 1 mag 2 wil
Battlemage: 1 mag 2 con

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 25 février 2011 - 08:07 .

[soteria]

A word of caution: all this largely neglects the way gear and specific abilities work with stats. 1 point of strength per level might not be enough to wear decent gear. We might find items like the Blood-gorged Amulet that increase health by dramatic amounts. An ability might play exceptionally well (or poorly) with a stat. Theorycraft has its place, but without seeing full loot and ability tables and seeing what sort of encounters we're up against, all we're doing is guessing.

[Sabresandiego]

soteria wrote...

A word of caution: all this largely neglects the way gear and specific abilities work with stats. 1 point of strength per level might not be enough to wear decent gear. We might find items like the Blood-gorged Amulet that increase health by dramatic amounts. An ability might play exceptionally well (or poorly) with a stat. Theorycraft has its place, but without seeing full loot and ability tables and seeing what sort of encounters we're up against, all we're doing is guessing.

All of our posts have indicated that the info in this thread is based only on the demo, and that gear will have a dramatic impact on the true viability of anything. That being said, its fun to speculate.

[jheise4321]

What formula did you use to come up with the %?

[Zhel_Ryn]

Sabresandiego wrote...[about stat recommendations]
*snip

Sound numbers and logic. I could see other cases beyond these, but with what we know, and overall building a more self sufficient build, these would be pretty much what I'd go for.

I'm thinking a 50/50 STR/CUN tank would be workable though, using damage resistance abilities for boss fights, and building your party members to support this (+Def/CC abilities for defense, +crit/dam for offense). I haven't fully decided between this or the STR/CON build you listed for my nightmare TH tank yet.

Speculation is fun. Seeing what directions people end up going and their experiences in the full game will be even greater fun.

[Sabresandiego]

More reasons for a warrior tank to favor constitution over cunning, a warrior dev just confirmed that massive armor has str and con requirements. No mention of cunning.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 26 février 2011 - 08:27 .

[Ultimecia]

It makes sense that rogues get their mitigation from Defense, and warrior from Armor (as it has always been in D&D).

Rerunning the demo about 500 times it seems pure Str seems the best, because Mighty Blow (and I imagine every damaging ability) scales increadibly well with it. This makes me lean towards 2.5Str/0.5Con-Wil

[Sabresandiego]

Ultimecia wrote...

It makes sense that rogues get their mitigation from Defense, and warrior from Armor (as it has always been in D&D).
Rerunning the demo about 500 times it seems pure Str seems the best, because Mighty Blow (and I imagine every damaging ability) scales increadibly well with it. This makes me lean towards 2.5Str/0.5Con-Wil

That sounds like a good build, but what is really going to dictate solid builds is equipment stat requirements. I also think that a heavy willpower build might be very strong if the Berseker specialization is going to turn out as I expect it to.

[Zhel_Ryn]

Ultimecia wrote...

It makes sense that rogues get their mitigation from Defense, and warrior from Armor (as it has always been in D&D).

Too bad the mechanics of old D&Ds armor was exactly what Defense is today? (Yey for not having THAC0 anymore though)

As there's many ways to speculate building stats and talents, there would be many ways to gear the character as well. Still not disagreeing that CON or WIL are bad stats, just trying to see the good in the other stats and possibilities. Maybe the 'heavy' (medium from reading Peter's replies?) will only require main stat, and if it's like DA:O without fatigue, the difference is purely armor. How big is the difference in the mitigation between the two? Enough that no matter the math a mix of defense/armor wouldn't ever out-mitigate pure armor? *shrug*

*sigh* So much new info, so much to theorycraft, but still no game to just play! >.<

[Ultimecia]

Is it me, or are the sustained buffs in the demo not taxing your mana?

@Sabre: How do you see Berserker turning out? I mainly see it as the Berserk Sustain giving some damage, magic resist and knockback resist. Hope I'm wrong cause I didn't like the old Berkers (much rather have Frenzied Berserker per D&D 3.5, but that's just me)