193 réponses à ce sujet

[Adhin]

Yeah I noticed that too Ultimecia, they've said the Reserve is the new Fatigue and im not sure if they mean it just makes skills cost that much more, or if it reserves that % of mana/stamina Either way I didn't see the effect at all take place in the demo, probably just a demo issue either way. I should ask that in the other thread see if Peter will answer on exactly how Reserve mana/stamina works.

-edit-
Oh and as for Berserk, I think it'll be heavily stamina based in the same way Reaver is heavily HP based. Warriors get %stamina regen everytime they kill something, and I could easily see Berserks getting that improved. Or regen based off number of targets, or some kinda buff that does something in that.

The Webpage description for them talks about being smart with when you rage in relation to battle momentum. Why I figure its got to be stamina oriented. Which also leads me to think they probably kept the whole 'dump 100% stamina into one attack'. Though I hope if thats the case its an AoE attack of some kind. Personally I found that ability completely **** in DAO. Dmg just didn't warrent turning off rage and losing all your stamina.

Modifié par Adhin, 27 février 2011 - 02:32 .

[Ultimecia]

With the introduction of the Second Wind talent I welcome Final Blow

[Adhin]

Alright that whole statement, in my mind, came out incredibly dirty... but putting that aside I can see that being a useful combo. I just hope 'rage' doesn't have -stam regen. They used that way to much in DAO but I haven't seen it anywhere in DA2 so far skill wise. So I can kinda see them using it as some kinda push/pull thing for Berserker. Even if they don't (that being rage can stay on even at 0stamina) Final Blow + Second Wind could be a useful thing.

[John Sheridan]

Can special attacks like backstab and twin strikes miss? Are they independent of attack values?

[Sabresandiego]

Special attacks and all abilities always hit.

[Ultimecia]

You can sometimes glimpse at the stats on the items when you go to pick them up. Seems like there's a lot of stats on gear.
Also, in the Kirkwall part, your 2hander has 60-something DPS. After adding Strenght I ended up with 74 dps... Almost not worth in investing over 1 point per level in Strength if that much comes from weapon alone.

[JulianoV]

Agreed. That's pretty much my line of thought when it comes to cunning. When it boils down to it, I'd probably make better use of increased critical damage than raw damage when it comes to a 2 handed build, that has talents that lend themselves to icnreasing critical effectiveness.

But then I remember SabreSandiego mentioning a developer stating that high level armor will have big Strength and constitution requirements, and my dreams crumble. I sure wish there are bonus attribute points to be found throughout the game, otherwise armor requirements will become a cumbersome limitation.

[Graunt]

timski wrote...

Veovim - DA2 is indeed reversed, making weapons far more important. You gain +1 raw point of damage for every +2 primary attribute. That's a trivial increases, given that a level 6 Bethany has (from memory) over 60 raw damage (presumably from a weapon) before considering Strength points.

Have you paid attention to just how much of an increase abilities get from stats?  Your "raw DPS" (auto attack) may not be that great per stat point, but spells and melee abilities get a very large boost.  Try not to make it sound like the damage stats aren't nearly as important as before.  While you may gain a larger "one time offer" boost by upgrading a weapon, you'd be hurting yourself badly if you relied soley on gear for damage.

As far as CUN goes, it seems like the new DEX for Warrior tanks.  You'd probably want to go 2 CUN, 1 STR for gear requirements while replacing STR with CON after requirements are met.

Modifié par Graunt, 03 mars 2011 - 12:16 .

[Sabresandiego]

Technically you get the same percentage boost in damage to abilities as you do to autoattacks from attributes. Therefore if you dont think investing in a damage improving stat is worthwhile for autoattack damage, it wont be worthwhile for ability damage either. All abilities simply do a multiple of your autoattack damage.

[Siven80]

I dunno, dex/defense was overrated in DAO for tanks (26dex was all you needed), and with the damage reduction % statand abilities in DA2, i still dont see it being vital.

Sure defense/cunning will be good for tanks and it will be worth it to have some, but i dont think it will being worth it to have it any higher than con or str.

[Graunt]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Technically you get the same percentage boost in damage to abilities as you do to autoattacks from attributes. Therefore if you dont think investing in a damage improving stat is worthwhile for autoattack damage, it wont be worthwhile for ability damage either. All abilities simply do a multiple of your autoattack damage.

You don't get the same boost except when looking at things in a vacuum and on a static, solitary target.  Most of the damaging spells and abilities are all frontloaded, and are on a cooldown.  Auto attacks are not.  Until we actually see just how large of a difference weapons really do make compared to stats alone, we really can't say that damage stats are not worth it.  In the demo, one point in Magic would give an increase between 2 - 6 damage for spells.

Modifié par Graunt, 03 mars 2011 - 12:31 .

[Sabresandiego]

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Technically you get the same percentage boost in damage to abilities as you do to autoattacks from attributes. Therefore if you dont think investing in a damage improving stat is worthwhile for autoattack damage, it wont be worthwhile for ability damage either. All abilities simply do a multiple of your autoattack damage.

You don't get the same boost except when looking at things in a vacuum and on a static, solitary target. Auto attacks don't have cooldowns.

It will boost AOE damage by the same percentage it boosts autoattack damage. 10% boost 50 damage on 1 enemy is 55 damage. 10% boost to 100 damage on 10 enemies, is 110 damage on ten enemies. Either way the percentages are the same.

[Graunt]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Technically you get the same percentage boost in damage to abilities as you do to autoattacks from attributes. Therefore if you dont think investing in a damage improving stat is worthwhile for autoattack damage, it wont be worthwhile for ability damage either. All abilities simply do a multiple of your autoattack damage.

You don't get the same boost except when looking at things in a vacuum and on a static, solitary target. Auto attacks don't have cooldowns.

It will boost AOE damage by the same percentage it boosts autoattack damage. 10% boost 50 damage on 1 enemy is 55 damage. 10% boost to 100 damage on 10 enemies, is 110 damage on ten enemies. Either way the percentages are the same.

Except that abilities and spells are not such low figures as an auto attack.  10% of 200 damage it nothing compared to 10% of 2000 damage.  It doesn't matter if both get the same percentage, it doesn't have the same impact at all...unless you're attacking a wall for ten hours and your cooldowns are all 30 - 60 seconds each.

Modifié par Graunt, 03 mars 2011 - 12:34 .

[Sabresandiego]

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Technically you get the same percentage boost in damage to abilities as you do to autoattacks from attributes. Therefore if you dont think investing in a damage improving stat is worthwhile for autoattack damage, it wont be worthwhile for ability damage either. All abilities simply do a multiple of your autoattack damage.

You don't get the same boost except when looking at things in a vacuum and on a static, solitary target. Auto attacks don't have cooldowns.

It will boost AOE damage by the same percentage it boosts autoattack damage. 10% boost 50 damage on 1 enemy is 55 damage. 10% boost to 100 damage on 10 enemies, is 110 damage on ten enemies. Either way the percentages are the same.

Except that abilities and spells are not such low figures as an auto attack.  10% of 200 damage it nothing compared to 10% of 2000 damage.  It doesn't matter if both get the same percentage, it doesn't have the same impact at all...unless you're attacking a wall for ten hours and your cooldowns are all 30 - 60 seconds each.

Nobody is arguing that abilities do more damage than auto attacks. But if putting 1 point into strength is boosting your autoattack by 1%, then its also boosting your mighty blow by 1%. 1% is 1%

And yes it does have the same impact. A 1% increase is a 1% increase regardless of if its 1% of 10 damage or 1% of 100000 damage.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 03 mars 2011 - 12:47 .

[Graunt]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Technically you get the same percentage boost in damage to abilities as you do to autoattacks from attributes. Therefore if you dont think investing in a damage improving stat is worthwhile for autoattack damage, it wont be worthwhile for ability damage either. All abilities simply do a multiple of your autoattack damage.

You don't get the same boost except when looking at things in a vacuum and on a static, solitary target. Auto attacks don't have cooldowns.

It will boost AOE damage by the same percentage it boosts autoattack damage. 10% boost 50 damage on 1 enemy is 55 damage. 10% boost to 100 damage on 10 enemies, is 110 damage on ten enemies. Either way the percentages are the same.

Except that abilities and spells are not such low figures as an auto attack.  10% of 200 damage it nothing compared to 10% of 2000 damage.  It doesn't matter if both get the same percentage, it doesn't have the same impact at all...unless you're attacking a wall for ten hours and your cooldowns are all 30 - 60 seconds each.

Nobody is arguing that abilities do more damage than auto attacks. But if putting 1 point into strength is boosting your autoattack by 1%, then its also boosting your mighty blow by 1%. 1% is 1%

And yes it does have the same impact. A 1% increase is a 1% increase regardless of if its 1% of 10 damage or 1% of 100000 damage.

No, it does NOT have the same impact at all.  You keep looking at it as though we will be attacking static target dummies that never move. That's not how the game works, and your argument only applies to solitary bosses that never move.  Abilities that hit more than one target (which are most of them) get much more out of a single stat point than what auto attack damage does when you're hitting at least two enemies.  Usually you'll be hitting anywhere between 3-8.  

This is nowhere near the same benefit, because auto attacks only hit one target at a time and they do not frontload all of their damage at once.  Swing speeds make a difference too, but the "DPS" doesn't factor that in, it only cares about how much damage you would be doing per second if you were always hitting something.

Modifié par Graunt, 03 mars 2011 - 01:08 .

[Sabresandiego]

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Technically you get the same percentage boost in damage to abilities as you do to autoattacks from attributes. Therefore if you dont think investing in a damage improving stat is worthwhile for autoattack damage, it wont be worthwhile for ability damage either. All abilities simply do a multiple of your autoattack damage.

You don't get the same boost except when looking at things in a vacuum and on a static, solitary target. Auto attacks don't have cooldowns.

It will boost AOE damage by the same percentage it boosts autoattack damage. 10% boost 50 damage on 1 enemy is 55 damage. 10% boost to 100 damage on 10 enemies, is 110 damage on ten enemies. Either way the percentages are the same.

Except that abilities and spells are not such low figures as an auto attack.  10% of 200 damage it nothing compared to 10% of 2000 damage.  It doesn't matter if both get the same percentage, it doesn't have the same impact at all...unless you're attacking a wall for ten hours and your cooldowns are all 30 - 60 seconds each.

Nobody is arguing that abilities do more damage than auto attacks. But if putting 1 point into strength is boosting your autoattack by 1%, then its also boosting your mighty blow by 1%. 1% is 1%

And yes it does have the same impact. A 1% increase is a 1% increase regardless of if its 1% of 10 damage or 1% of 100000 damage.

No, it does NOT have the same impact at all.  You keep looking at it as though we will be attacking static target dummies that never move. That's not how the game works, and your argument only applies to solitary bosses that never move.  Abilities that hit more than one target (which are most of them) get much more out of a single stat point than what auto attack damage does when you're hitting at least two enemies.  Usually you'll be hitting anywhere between 3-8.  

This is nowhere near the same benefit, because auto attacks only hit one target at a time and they do not frontload all of their damage at once.  Swing speeds make a difference too, but the "DPS" doesn't factor that in, it only cares about how much damage you would be doing per second if you were always hitting something.

What you dont seem to understand is that abilities which hit more than 1 target at a time, still do so if you dont invest points in getting added damage. Lets say you invested enough points into strength to make each auto attack hit 10% harder. This means that your whirlwind hits 10% harder as well. The person who did not invest the extra points into strength for damage will have his auto attack hit for 10% less damage, and his whirlwind hit for 10% less damage. What you fail to understand is that the person who did not invest in the added damage will still hit multiple targets with his whirlwind, he will just hit each one for 10% less damage.

Basically, stats like magic, strength, and dexterity give you a percentage boost to damage across all abilities.

You are basically telling me that a stat like strength increases your autoattack damage by x%, but increases your total damage by more than x%. This is false, because all of your ability damage is based on your damage number in the stat screen and is a multiple of it.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 03 mars 2011 - 01:22 .

[JulianoV]

Auto attacks hit more than one target, Graunt. I may be totally wrong here, but I believe I've seen my 2hander hit 5 enemies in an arc at once with Giant's Reach and proper positioning.

[Graunt]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Technically you get the same percentage boost in damage to abilities as you do to autoattacks from attributes. Therefore if you dont think investing in a damage improving stat is worthwhile for autoattack damage, it wont be worthwhile for ability damage either. All abilities simply do a multiple of your autoattack damage.

You don't get the same boost except when looking at things in a vacuum and on a static, solitary target. Auto attacks don't have cooldowns.

It will boost AOE damage by the same percentage it boosts autoattack damage. 10% boost 50 damage on 1 enemy is 55 damage. 10% boost to 100 damage on 10 enemies, is 110 damage on ten enemies. Either way the percentages are the same.

Except that abilities and spells are not such low figures as an auto attack.  10% of 200 damage it nothing compared to 10% of 2000 damage.  It doesn't matter if both get the same percentage, it doesn't have the same impact at all...unless you're attacking a wall for ten hours and your cooldowns are all 30 - 60 seconds each.

Nobody is arguing that abilities do more damage than auto attacks. But if putting 1 point into strength is boosting your autoattack by 1%, then its also boosting your mighty blow by 1%. 1% is 1%

And yes it does have the same impact. A 1% increase is a 1% increase regardless of if its 1% of 10 damage or 1% of 100000 damage.

No, it does NOT have the same impact at all.  You keep looking at it as though we will be attacking static target dummies that never move. That's not how the game works, and your argument only applies to solitary bosses that never move.  Abilities that hit more than one target (which are most of them) get much more out of a single stat point than what auto attack damage does when you're hitting at least two enemies.  Usually you'll be hitting anywhere between 3-8.  

This is nowhere near the same benefit, because auto attacks only hit one target at a time and they do not frontload all of their damage at once.  Swing speeds make a difference too, but the "DPS" doesn't factor that in, it only cares about how much damage you would be doing per second if you were always hitting something.

What you dont seem to understand is that abilities which hit more than 1 target at a time, still do so if you dont invest points in getting added damage.

I never said a single word that would lead to this conclusion.  Way to straw man.

Lets say you invested enough points into strength to make each auto attack hit 10% harder. This means that your whirlwind hits 10% harder as well. The person who did not invest the extra points into strength for damage will have his auto attack hit for 10% less damage, and his whirlwind hit for 10% less damage. What you fail to understand is that the person who did not invest in the added damage will still hit multiple targets with his whirlwind, he will just hit each one for 10% less damage.

Again, I never stated anything like this.  You seem to be having a really hard time grasping total damage.  If that 10% increase was all it took to kill a single enemy compared to having an enemy with 10% health left, in groups you'll end up with multiple enemies dead instead of multiple enemies standing.  The same is not true of auto attacking, not only because auto attacks naturally hit for less per swing, but because they aren't instant either

You are basically telling me that a stat like strength increases your autoattack damage by x%, but increases your total damage by more than x%. This is false, because all of your ability damage is based on your damage number in the stat screen and is a multiple of it.

If you cannot understand how +10% * 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 is a larger boost per point than +10% *1, I don't know what to tell you.

Auto attacks hit more than one target, Graunt. I may be totally wrong
here, but I believe I've seen my 2hander hit 5 enemies in an arc at once
with Giant's Reach and proper positioning.

You can hit more than one target with perfect positioning, which is less frequent than by simply attacking a single target.  Abilities seem to have a much wider arc and reach overall.  Regardless, people are free to do what they want with their characters, although I won't be surpised if the people who claim damage stats are not, or may not be nearly as useful this time around suddently start complaining about how their characters "don't do enough damage".

Modifié par Graunt, 03 mars 2011 - 01:45 .

[Sabresandiego]

[quote]Graunt wrote...

[quote]Sabresandiego wrote...

[quote]Graunt wrote...

[quote]Sabresandiego wrote...

[quote]Graunt wrote...

[quote]Sabresandiego wrote...

[quote]Graunt wrote...

[quote]Sabresandiego wrote...

Technically you get the same percentage boost in damage to abilities as you do to autoattacks from attributes. Therefore if you dont think investing in a damage improving stat is worthwhile for autoattack damage, it wont be worthwhile for ability damage either. All abilities simply do a multiple of your autoattack damage.[/quote]

You don't get the same boost except when looking at things in a vacuum and on a static, solitary target. Auto attacks don't have cooldowns.

[/quote]

It will boost AOE damage by the same percentage it boosts autoattack damage. 10% boost 50 damage on 1 enemy is 55 damage. 10% boost to 100 damage on 10 enemies, is 110 damage on ten enemies. Either way the percentages are the same.

[/quote]

Except that abilities and spells are not such low figures as an auto attack.  10% of 200 damage it nothing compared to 10% of 2000 damage.  It doesn't matter if both get the same percentage, it doesn't have the same impact at all...unless you're attacking a wall for ten hours and your cooldowns are all 30 - 60 seconds each.

[/quote]

Nobody is arguing that abilities do more damage than auto attacks. But if putting 1 point into strength is boosting your autoattack by 1%, then its also boosting your mighty blow by 1%. 1% is 1%

And yes it does have the same impact. A 1% increase is a 1% increase regardless of if its 1% of 10 damage or 1% of 100000 damage.

[/quote]

No, it does NOT have the same impact at all.  You keep looking at it as though we will be attacking static target dummies that never move. That's not how the game works, and your argument only applies to solitary bosses that never move.  Abilities that hit more than one target (which are most of them) get much more out of a single stat point than what auto attack damage does when you're hitting at least two enemies.  Usually you'll be hitting anywhere between 3-8.  

This is nowhere near the same benefit, because auto attacks only hit one target at a time and they do not frontload all of their damage at once.  Swing speeds make a difference too, but the "DPS" doesn't factor that in, it only cares about how much damage you would be doing per second if you were always hitting something.

[/quote]

What you dont seem to understand is that abilities which hit more than 1 target at a time, still do so if you dont invest points in getting added damage.[/quote]

I never said a single word that would lead to this conclusion.  Way to straw man.

[quote]Lets say you invested enough points into strength to make each auto attack hit 10% harder. This means that your whirlwind hits 10% harder as well. The person who did not invest the extra points into strength for damage will have his auto attack hit for 10% less damage, and his whirlwind hit for 10% less damage. What you fail to understand is that the person who did not invest in the added damage will still hit multiple targets with his whirlwind, he will just hit each one for 10% less damage.[/quote]

Again, I never stated anything like this.  You seem to be having a really hard time grasping total damage.  If that 10% increase was all it took to kill a single enemy compared to having an enemy with 10% health left, in groups you'll end up with multiple enemies dead instead of multiple enemies standing.  The same is not true of auto attacking, not only because auto attacks naturally hit for less per swing, but because they aren't instant either

[quote]You are basically telling me that a stat like strength increases your autoattack damage by x%, but increases your total damage by more than x%. This is false, because all of your ability damage is based on your damage number in the stat screen and is a multiple of it.
[/quote]

If you cannot understand how +10% * 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 is a larger boost per point than +10% *1, I don't know what to tell you.

[quote]Auto attacks hit more than one target, Graunt. I may be totally wrong
here, but I believe I've seen my 2hander hit 5 enemies in an arc at once
with Giant's Reach and proper positioning.[/quote]

You can hit more than one target with perfect positioning, which is less frequent than by simply attacking a single target.  Abilities seem to have a much wider arc and reach overall.  Regardless, people are free to do what they want with their characters, although I won't be surpised if the people who claim damage stats are not, or may not be nearly as useful this time around suddently start complaining about how their characters "don't do enough damage".

[/quote]

Like I have said before, 10% of 100 is less than 10% of 1000 and that is obvious. Nobody is arguing that. What you are arguing is that raising your damage by 10% by investing in (str, dex, or mag) actually raises your damage by more than 10% because of abilities. I am saying that is false since abilities are all based upon a multiple of your damage.

This has nothing to do with meeting thresholds of enemy health, and that is a concept that is not related to the discussion at hand. If you really want to argue particulars, I can say that if I kill 7 enemies sorrounding me with whirlwind, what benefit would doing 10% more damage have? It would have 0 benefit because they are dead anyways.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 03 mars 2011 - 01:59 .