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[Evil Johnny 666]

Aleksandar Shepard wrote...
Seeing the horrific experiment done by Collectors in order to build Human Reaper led me to simple conclusion = Reapers are probably looking for genetic material of a perfect lifeform.In this case they probably consider Humans to be the ones because of Shepard's Heroic actions.

I don't know if you read Ascension, but the Collectors were portrayed as a race, well, collecting several groups of individual with certain particularities of pretty much every race. I think it's safe to say they were testing which race would be better to make Reaper out of them, thus Shepard's heroic actions have little to do. Anyway, it's not because a single individual proves to be worthy, that A) the whole race is worthy, and any other race are less worthy. Basically, the whole Shepard thing is irrelevant.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 20 février 2011 - 10:39 .

[levi.porphyrogenitus]

I thought it was pretty obvious. Each time the Reapers do a culling, they try to find a new source for growing more Reapers. The Protheans were a failure, and I don't think they actually had any other options at the time. Thus they took a remnant, turned them into the Collectors, and had them start looking as more and more options started showing up (Asari, Turians, Batarians, etc.). Finally, humans burst on to the scene, and lo and behold they are genetically suitable for growing new Reapers (pay attention to Mordin's dialog in many of the medical-type scenes).



It follows then that the Reapers would try to seize the single largest concentration of potential Reaper biomass: Earth. They had the Collectors trying so hard to get Shepard's body probably because they were impressed by his accomplishments and wanted to use him in making a new Reaper as well.



If humanity weren't around, the Reapers would probably have cleansed everyone else, perhaps taking some small percentage of one or the other of the Council species to make into new slaves, to await the next round of culling in the hopes of finding better genetic prospects for making new Reapers.

[levi.porphyrogenitus]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
And because of humans' superior genetic makeup, as noted in Mordin's missions.

I find it hard to believe as the Asari are able to use genetic code of any race to their advantage, including humans. Basically, they are by far the most genetically adaptive race, mixing genetic code of everyone rather than only keeping their own like every other race. I think it's just Bioware stepping on their own feet. It's not because an in-game character says something that it makes sense, as his dialogue was written by, well, a writer after all, thus prone to inconsistency among other things.

It seems to me that Asari have an inherently unstable genetic structure.  This likely precludes them being a useable template for growing new Reapers.

[Greybox_Inception]

maybe humans/humanoids are genetically perfected/balanced than other races?

"why us indeed?", Shepard

Modifié par Greybox_Inception, 20 février 2011 - 10:44 .

[Evil Johnny 666]

levi.porphyrogenitus wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...
I find it hard to believe as the Asari are able to use genetic code of any race to their advantage, including humans. Basically, they are by far the most genetically adaptive race, mixing genetic code of everyone rather than only keeping their own like every other race. I think it's just Bioware stepping on their own feet. It's not because an in-game character says something that it makes sense, as his dialogue was written by, well, a writer after all, thus prone to inconsistency among other things.

It seems to me that Asari have an inherently unstable genetic structure.  This likely precludes them being a useable template for growing new Reapers.

Anyway, I just made the Mass Effect wiki a visit, and I was spewing bull****. Apparently, the only thing having a child with a mate from another race does is randomize even more their DNA, they do not use actual genetic code from them.

[Babli]

adneate wrote...

T'is a trope and the entire plot of ME3 is another.

This answers everything. Humans are awesome and better than eveyone and everything else.

[Meaningless]

The Reapers are probably invading more than 1 planet at the same time..



(given the size of the reaper fleet we see at the end of ME2, it they all went to earth.. lol.. did the guy in the ME3 trailer said the first week? doubt we would last 3 - 4 days...)

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...



I find it hard to believe as the Asari are able to use genetic code of any race to their advantage, including humans. Basically, they are by far the most genetically adaptive race, mixing genetic code of everyone rather than only keeping their own like every other race. I think it's just Bioware stepping on their own feet. It's not because an in-game character says something that it makes sense, as his dialogue was written by, well, a writer after all, thus prone to inconsistency among other things.

Its not just what Mordin says, I have played the 2 games (no other content), but the Asari themselves mention at some points that the genetic material of the other half (or the father) is non-important and doesn't really adds to the diversity/formation of the species (other than to avoid Ardak-Yankshi although this can't be entirely proven as there may be these types that I just typed the named wrong, and others Asari just don't know about like Samara herself mentions...)

[nevar00]

Because it's another "HUMANITY, F*CK YEAH!" storyline where humans show themselves to be superior and come out and save the day.



Now I'm all fine and dandy with that crap because it sells, but if the majority of ME 3 takes place on Earth, I'll be pissed. I can understand a big mission or something taking place there, but when you have the whole damn galaxy at your disposal, I don't want this epic series to end on Earth.

[Greybox_Inception]

nevar00 wrote...

Because it's another "HUMANITY, F*CK YEAH!" storyline where humans show themselves to be superior and come out and save the day.

Now I'm all fine and dandy with that crap because it sells, but if the majority of ME 3 takes place on Earth, I'll be pissed. I can understand a big mission or something taking place there, but when you have the whole damn galaxy at your disposal, I don't want this epic series to end on Earth.

 everyone knows elves are genetically surperior (smarter, stronager, bigger, faster, healthier, etc) in everyway than imaginary humans.

Modifié par Greybox_Inception, 20 février 2011 - 10:47 .

[Meaningless]

levi.porphyrogenitus wrote...

I thought it was pretty obvious. Each time the Reapers do a culling, they try to find a new source for growing more Reapers. The Protheans were a failure, and I don't think they actually had any other options at the time. Thus they took a remnant, turned them into the Collectors, and had them start looking as more and more options started showing up (Asari, Turians, Batarians, etc.). Finally, humans burst on to the scene, and lo and behold they are genetically suitable for growing new Reapers (pay attention to Mordin's dialog in many of the medical-type scenes).

If it was so simple... they would just make an endless number of more reapers.. as you dont need to "wait" for an species to arise, you just harvest them as they grow.


Speaking outside of the game now:

For all we know, we as a race could have been "thrown into this planet like 10 or 30 thousands years ago and nobody would know a thing about it" and the reapers could be just waiting for our population to grow.

Except that reapers have technology, they can harvest us they would not need to WAIT. If they didn't use the protheans or any other race before, it can't be due to lack of numbers, more likely those races/species had nothing to further enhance reapers.

Have you ever played Xenogears ? (EDIT: Forget that, you probably watched MATRIX anyway, while their system is too far-fetched still shows how technology beats lack of numbers.. everytime xD)

Modifié par Meaningless, 20 février 2011 - 11:28 .

[AlanC9]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

levi.porphyrogenitus wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...
I find it hard to believe as the Asari are able to use genetic code of any race to their advantage, including humans. Basically, they are by far the most genetically adaptive race, mixing genetic code of everyone rather than only keeping their own like every other race. I think it's just Bioware stepping on their own feet. It's not because an in-game character says something that it makes sense, as his dialogue was written by, well, a writer after all, thus prone to inconsistency among other things.

It seems to me that Asari have an inherently unstable genetic structure.  This likely precludes them being a useable template for growing new Reapers.

Anyway, I just made the Mass Effect wiki a visit, and I was spewing bull****. Apparently, the only thing having a child with a mate from another race does is randomize even more their DNA, they do not use actual genetic code from them.

We disagree about a lot of stuff, EJ666, but I do appreciate your intellectual honesty.

(Not to mention you saving me a trip to the Wiki.  )

[johnygoodman]

Shepard beating Sovereign was a chance event, a one in a million fluke. Course, the Reapers are all about order and regularity, they can't handle that they got screwed by a bit of bad luck. So they try and explain how they got beat by considering Shepard and the Humans as "special". From Shepard's (and our) point of view, what they're doing is completely irrational.

[Brohammed]

Aleksandar Shepard wrote...

Reapers, be as they are - a sentient godlike race, performed their extermination of Milky Way advanced races for who knows how long without resistance (or maybe with resistance, no one knows)

At least one other speicies has at one point killed a reaper, the derelict one in ME2.

Asari have biotics, Turians are militant, Salarians are scientific minded, Humans have extreme diversity.

Each race has its own uniqueness and humanities genectic variance is theirs. The reapers targeted plently of other races before settling on humans.

[Aleksandar Shepard]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Aleksandar Shepard wrote...
Seeing the horrific experiment done by Collectors in order to build Human Reaper led me to simple conclusion = Reapers are probably looking for genetic material of a perfect lifeform.In this case they probably consider Humans to be the ones because of Shepard's Heroic actions.

I don't know if you read Ascension, but the Collectors were portrayed as a race, well, collecting several groups of individual with certain particularities of pretty much every race. I think it's safe to say they were testing which race would be better to make Reaper out of them, thus Shepard's heroic actions have little to do. Anyway, it's not because a single individual proves to be worthy, that A) the whole race is worthy, and any other race are less worthy. Basically, the whole Shepard thing is irrelevant.

Ok, Shepards heroic actions might not be ONLY reason, but yet again (if you read Redeption) you will see that Collectors wanted to aquire Shepards body by any means necesarry, and Harbinger personally (ok controling one collector) was in charge of recieving it from Shadow Brokers base .If "whole Shepard thing is irrelevant" than why need for his body specifically?

Think about it, Humans were very much young race.the had no seat in Citadel Council, Not until Human fleet destroyed Sovereign, and why they destroyed him? Because Shepard found out their secret, their plans and succesfuly infiltrated Sovereign, and killed Saren thus disabled Shields.At that point Vanguard was controlling him and seen a single Human sabotaging his plans. And since Reapers have their "minds" connected all other Reapers saw the same thing.If you think about it, i doubt Protheans were only advanced race that exsisted in "previous galaxy" but in eyes of Reapers they were most sagnificant  .In my opinion Reapers planned to use Turians (because of their military prowess) at first, thus they brainwashed Saren.But after witnessing Shepards actions in Battle for the Citadel they decided to use Humans instead.

So yes, Shepard pretty much has everything to do with it.His heroism led Reapers to a conclusion that Humans are most worthy to achieve "perfection".

[Epic777]

I thought the reason why the reapers want shepard is because he/she has the cipher. Right? Secondly I thought the reapers want humans because of our reaction to element zero (apparently from the books/comics).



On a side note: How does the me2 invoke "Humans are special". The reapers have decided that humanity would be better smelted into reaper paste, thats not winning the lottery.

[Zelnik]

OP here..

Lets not forget that the Turian fleet allowed the human reinforcements to get to the reaper, without them, most of the Geth ships would have smacked the earther fleet like a fly (you saw that within a few moments of combat, an earth cruiser pops like a zit)



Everyone says "dhur, hunams kill a reaper". First things first, the Asari and Turians were essential in the battle (the turians engaged the Geth, with the help of the Ascension). Shepard did nothing but prevent Sovereign from activating the citidel, and he opened the arms allowing the fleet in.



Lets not forget that Shepard had a bunch of aliens on his crew, every one of them essential for the final conflict.



On the whole thing around human genetic superiority, Mordin simply states that we have greater peaks and valleys, and greater genetic diversity. All this does is make us fantastic test subjects for alien science, it doesn't make us superior in any way, shape, or form.



Honestly, If i had the choice to sacrifice earth for the good of the galaxy, I would see it burn.

[Meaningless]

Aleksandar Shepard wrote...

Ok, Shepards heroic actions might not be ONLY reason, but yet again (if you read Redeption) you will see that Collectors wanted to aquire Shepards body by any means necesarry, and Harbinger personally (ok controling one collector) was in charge of recieving it from Shadow Brokers base .If "whole Shepard thing is irrelevant" than why need for his body specifically?

If you can have a "superior specimen" of the species to study.. why not? Shepard body would obviously be the most valuable to them as a tests subject (maybe clone him or even worse things). I don't think the collectors knew about Cerberus intentions to bring Shepard back, but still, if Shepard body was forgot/never seen again, all the better for the collectors, one less remembrance of the "man who killed a reaper".

And since Reapers have their "minds" connected all other Reapers saw the same thing.

Er.. thats strange, where does this fact comes from ? I thought only the geth had this. If reaper minds are connected, why did Sovereign died trying to warn the other reapers it was time for invasion? Shouldn't the other reapers know it and invade already? How did Sovereign sent the information from his mind to the other reapers that are probaly zillions of light years away? Do they have a means to transcend space/time?

In my opinion Reapers planned to use Turians (because of their military prowess) at first, thus they brainwashed Saren.

Use turians for what ?

Epic777 wrote...

I thought the reason why the reapers want shepard is because he/she has the cipher. Right?

The prothean cipher... but again the reapers discarded the protheans, no reason for that cipher to be valuable for the reapers.

Zelnik wrote...

greater genetic diversity. All this does is make us fantastic test
subjects for alien science, it doesn't make us superior in any way,
shape, or form.

How can you say that ? More diversity = greater set of options/paths to take. Would you rather a lab rat that always responds the same way, or one that has diversification? Consider that you're trying to shape the rat into something.. answer is pretty clear me thinks. To further exemplify, some people are know to be immune to HIV, these are obvious superior than the ones who aren't   ^^

Modifié par Meaningless, 21 février 2011 - 03:15 .

[Meaningless]

Opz double post ^^

Modifié par Meaningless, 21 février 2011 - 03:02 .

[Archonon]

I think you might be getting ahead of yourself OP.



Sure the teaser trailer for ME3 showed Reapers attacking Earth but given the number of Reapers that exist, how do you know that the Earth attack wasn't just a small battle in the Reapers' invasion of the entire galaxy? Or that the attack on Earth is just a retribution assault after the main force is defeated elsewhere? I can just as easily envision Shepard hoping to other major planets throughout ME3 as the Reapers strike at all the Council races' homeworlds.



I don't think that the main battle with the Reapers will happen on Earth. Frankly, I think that the attack on Earth might be a centerpiece that sets up the story towards the larger climax elsewhere like ME2's attack on Horizon did.



I think it is way too early to judge on how the invasion of Earth fits into the main plot of ME3 since there is virtually zip to go on regarding the story at this point.

[Zelnik]

Well it's pretty clear that you didn't take a genetics course, and nor did the makers of the game.



Humanity has horrible genetic diversity. You are more closely related to someone on the other side of the world then a chimpanzee is to it's brother or sister. This is due to a bottleneck that our species suffered some 50k years ago when Toba exploded.



While it's nice to say 'we have great genes', it's going to take more then a few hundred years to improve our diversity. comparing us to the others in the galaxy though, it makes a little more sense, since Salarians reproduce very selectively and 12 at a time. Asari are effectively clones of their mothers with genetic variation.



That doesn't explain the turians.. or the krogan, or any other species in the game..

.

Quite frankly, all genetic diversity really does is prevent mutation due to lack of environemental pressure. this mutation can be for good OR ill.

[Meaningless]

I sure didn't and was afraid of making a fool of myself, but the simple use of the word "diversity" implies a lot of potential, given the right path is taken ^^

When you say -it's going to take more then a few hundred years to improve our diversity- I take that improving our diversity would be a good thing? Also given the technology that reapers/collectors possess, could'nt they speed up the process? If so that seems like another reason we can be superior and deserving their interest.

Modifié par Meaningless, 21 février 2011 - 03:27 .

[Meaningless]

Damn I have to stop pressing the wrong button ^^

Modifié par Meaningless, 21 février 2011 - 03:26 .

[Zelnik]

Genetic diversity assists in the prolonged survival of a species as it is. A reduction of this diversity can, indeed, lead to extinction, or it can lead to divergence.



If you need an example of how poor our diversity is, Humanity suffers from more genetic linked diseases then any other animal on the planet.



Does it offer potnetial? no, it actually stymies the chance that new mutations can arise. It keeps our bell curve broad, keeping the numbers of genetically defective and genetically superior people low. It's clear though that in ME, with enough money you can make "Cadillac" children, examples of genetic perfection (though Miranda suffers from sterility).

[Aleksandar Shepard]

Meaningless wrote...

And since Reapers have their "minds" connected all other Reapers saw the same thing.

Er.. thats strange, where does this fact comes from ? I thought only the geth had this. If reaper minds are connected, why did Sovereign died trying to warn the other reapers it was time for invasion? Shouldn't the other reapers know it and invade already? How did Sovereign sent the information from his mind to the other reapers that are probaly zillions of light years away? Do they have a means to transcend space/time?

First - You can figure that out from conversation with Sovereign on Virmire.

Second - Don't bi silly...Have you even played ME1? Soeverign did not tried to warn Reapers that it was time for invasion....Vanguard has 2 tasks when he is left behind, to oversee the technological progress of advance species and to activate Citadel Mass Relay when time for "harvest" is up.I can't belive you haven't figured out true function of Citadel - It works as large Mass Relay connected to Dark Space that serves to bring Reaper fleet faster in Milky Way.Since Shepard screw their plans over and over again, they decided to come using the old fashion way.

Third - "How did Sovereign sent the information from his mind to the other
reapers that are probaly zillions of light years away? Do they have a
means to transcend space/time?"
Ahem yes they do. Harbinger was able to control Collector general and trough him other Collectors aswell even if they are zilion light years away.

Meaningless wrote...

In my opinion Reapers planned to use Turians (because of their military prowess) at first, thus they brainwashed Saren.

Use turians for what ?

Thats question that still needs answer.Use them maybe the same way as they used Protheans.you will notice in many conversations inside game that there is teory that Reapers need genetic material of advance species in order to survive or even produce new Reapers.That might be the real purpose."The salvation trough destruction" , "ascension", "Harbinger of perfection".As I mentioned before Bioware is yet to reveal true purpose of Reapers circle of destruction.

Modifié par Aleksandar Shepard, 21 février 2011 - 07:08 .

[Meaningless]

Aleksandar Shepard wrote...

First - You can figure that out from conversation with Sovereign on Virmire.

Er.. no, at no point during the conversation he implies anything of the kind.

Second - Don't bi silly...Have you even played ME1? Soeverign did not tried to warn Reapers that it was time for invasion....Vanguard has 2 tasks when he is left behind, to oversee the technological progress of advance species and to activate Citadel Mass Relay when time for "harvest" is up.I can't belive you haven't figured out true function of Citadel - It works as large Mass Relay connected to Dark Space that serves to bring Reaper fleet faster in Milky Way.Since Shepard screw their plans over and over again, they decided to come using the old fashion way.

However, as we have information to believe that Sovereign was trying to activate the citadel from even before the rachni wars (since the protheans disabled keepers signal). That would have given reaper fleet a looooong time to have invaded us even without the citadel "backhole" (but then your point can still ring true, since to reapers, maybe traveling 1 or 2 thousand years trough space to reach our galaxy is not a long time.) Still, there are conflicting facts: Reaper fleet would have needed to divide itself: half of them started to travel to our region of space (and that was thousand of years ago when Sov first warned the others that Citadel was currently a no-go), and the other half of reaper fleet would wait in case Sov succeeds activating the Citadel.

Third - "How did Sovereign sent the information from his mind to the other
reapers that are probaly zillions of light years away? Do they have a
means to transcend space/time?"
Ahem yes they do. Harbinger was able to control Collector general and trough him other Collectors aswell even if they are zilion light years away.

Can be harbringer/collector general were unique linked and built for that purpose, or collectors base had a special device which allowed communication.. or harbinger a "reaper without body" living in the collector station.. or many other number of things.. and may be  you are right as well :X

I would like to think that exchanging information with little/no delay to any other being, no matter where he is on the universe, to be something too far-fetched as it is insanely useful. If true this will prove an immense advantage perhaps winning factor to reaper army in ME3.

Thats question that still needs answer.Use them maybe the same way as they used Protheans.you will notice in many conversations inside game that there is teory that Reapers need genetic material of advance species in order to survive or even produce new Reapers.That might be the real purpose."The salvation trough destruction" , "ascension", "Harbinger of perfection".As I mentioned before Bioware is yet to reveal true purpose of Reapers circle of destruction.

If turias were good for anything.. they could have used the turians a long time ago. (or maybe not since turians never went in big numbers to "remote/dangerous" regions fo the universe eh ^^)

Anyaway. Reapers probably can only exist at a limited number. If they could creatre themselves, they would just have unlimitedly harvested previous species and resources to boost reaper numbers...  they had millions of years to do that, if they didn't, "lack of advanced genetic material" is not a reasonable cause.

Modifié par Meaningless, 21 février 2011 - 10:39 .