33 réponses à ce sujet

[Adugan]

As a soldier Shep, I was wondering if Cryo Ammo is worth it. I would have to sacrifice Disruptor Ammo or Geth Shield to get 4/4 Cryo. I was wondering if it is worth getting instead of one of the other two.

[Adugan]

Oh, level 2 Disruptor ammo required for Incendiary, and level 2 Incendiary required for Cryo. WTF? Now its a choice between Geth Shield and Cryo.

[lazuli]

As a Soldier, you don't need Geth Shield Boost at all. Adrenaline Rush should be your bread and butter, your default offensive choice and your default defensive choice. Don't waste points or cooldowns on Geth Shield Boost.



I like Cryo Ammo and use it frequently. Either put one point in it for personal use, or max it out into the squad evolution so your teammates can carry it while you use Inferno Ammo or whatever is most appropriate for the mission at hand.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

+1 for squad cryo. It's remarkably useful, especially on husk missions.

[Adugan]

When you activate group ammo, can you switch to another ammo and your squad gets the benefits of the group ammo?



Also, which bonus power should I get instead? Might as well get something, since I can.

[lazuli]

Adugan wrote...

When you activate group ammo, can you switch to another ammo and your squad gets the benefits of the group ammo?

Also, which bonus power should I get instead? Might as well get something, since I can.

Yes.  Activate the squad ammo first, then apply your own individual ammo.

I would recommend Slam, Stasis, or Neural Shock.  Don't bother with more than 1 point in any of them unless you really like them.

Modifié par lazuli, 20 février 2011 - 06:40 .

[Ares Caesar]

lazuli wrote...

Adugan wrote...

When you activate group ammo, can you switch to another ammo and your squad gets the benefits of the group ammo?

Also, which bonus power should I get instead? Might as well get something, since I can.

Yes.  Activate the squad ammo first, then apply your own individual ammo.

I would recommend Slam, Stasis, or Neural Shock.  Don't bother with more than 1 point in any of them unless you really like them.

+1 for this post.

lazuli mentioned the 3 best single point bonus powers I'd recommend for a soldier. Each of them are fantastic to have at only level 1, slam probably would offer you the most synergy with adrenaline rush with its 3 second cooldown and the fact you can use it to setup warp bombs.  Stasis probably has a bit more tactical application (seeing as it works on protected enemies), but the longer cooldown definitely makes it more rare in use. I'd probably recommend slam early on, until you've gotten 3 levels of biotic upgrades for the cooldown bonus, then think about switching to stasis perhaps.

As for cryo ammo... WORTH IT.

If you bring squadmates who have proper protection stripping powers for the missions, you'll find that you'll love having squad cryo on your mates while you have inferno or disruptor ammo on yourself.

The big thing is only go squad cryo, and then go the individual higher powered versions of the others. You simply first cast squad cryo to get it on your squadmates weapons, then cast inferno/disruptor ammo on your guns.

As a soldier you'll find that once you've stripped protections off enemies your squad will rather quickly freeze the enemies and then your bullets will do MASSIVE damage (especially in adrenaline rush), and they'll provide an extra form of "crowd control" that you didnt previously have.

Too many people want to discredit cryo ammo on hardcore/insanity because it doesnt kick in until protections are dropped, however if you're using squad powers and proper weapons/ammo powers on the enemies you'll find that protections are easy, and its the increased health that is the real problem... and lower difficulties... heh, then you'll waste everything since your squad will basically freeze everyone right as the battle begins.

Trust me, squad cryo is one of the most underrated ammo powers, and I can assure you most of the better players I've seen all use it, or at least agree its highly effective.

Really, I shouldnt have even needed to say all this, but unfortunately cryo ammo has had a bad reputation lingering around it by those who've never used it, so I guess maybe I'm getting a bit defensive of it. Anyway, use it, you'll see... at the very least check out some youtube videos of it, and see what I mean.

[BurnedToast]

IMO... depends on the difficulty.



Easier difficulties? team cryo might be worthwhile because almost no-one has protection. Not that it matters, easy difficulties are pretty easy already but I guess it could be funny.



Harder difficulties - especially insanity? Don't bother. 1 point wonder it for shep to freeze people if you really want, otherwise it's a waste of points. By the time you've destroyed the protections they are all already half (or more) dead, and at that point EVERYTHING works on them so use lift or something.Wasting a lot of points for a situational ammo power (denies them other ammo powers or forces you to swap mid combat which is annoying) seems silly to me.



(Yes I've used it, no I've never used it on insanity, but yes I have finished the game on insanity)

[termokanden]

I agree very much with Ares Caesar on this. Had this discussion not too long ago as well. If I can have Squad Cryo Ammo at all when playing on insanity, I use it without any hesitation. Actually makes me a bit sad when I play a class that doesn't have it.

I find it hard to belive that people do not find it worthwhile on harder difficulties. Certainly helps me kill faster and provides crowd control at the same time.

On normal difficulty, I don't need much help killing quickly. But I suppose it's still fun shattering frozen people.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 février 2011 - 08:17 .

[Ares Caesar]

BurnedToast wrote...

IMO... depends on the difficulty.

Easier difficulties? team cryo might be worthwhile because almost no-one has protection. Not that it matters, easy difficulties are pretty easy already but I guess it could be funny.

Harder difficulties - especially insanity? Don't bother. 1 point wonder it for shep to freeze people if you really want, otherwise it's a waste of points. By the time you've destroyed the protections they are all already half (or more) dead, and at that point EVERYTHING works on them so use lift or something.Wasting a lot of points for a situational ammo power (denies them other ammo powers or forces you to swap mid combat which is annoying) seems silly to me.

(Yes I've used it, no I've never used it on insanity, but yes I have finished the game on insanity)

Thats the wrong way to look at it.

1) Protections on enemies increase less than health does on hardcore/insanity.

2) Weapons are also very suited to specific protections, and especially so once you've bought the appropriate upgrades, thus making protections even easier to remove via weapon damage.

3) "Protection Strippers" (Warp, Reave, Overload, Incinerate etc etc), do 2x damage against protections, where as against health they only do the numbers listed, not to mention things like "throw" and "pull" dont kill enemies by themselves either (heck throw does very little damage to health at higher difficulties and has a very long cooldown for squadmates).

4) Ammo powers only use BASE weapon damage for power increase, so later on in the game once you've gotten many of the weapon upgrades/protection damage increases you'll find that health is more of the problem than the protection.

Again, the key idea is to use squad cryo for your squadmates, and the single version of inferno/disruptor for yourself, while using squadmate protection strippers to help in removing them so you can deal high amounts of damage.

Personally as a Soldier things like Pull/Slam/Throw are quite annoying as they make actually targeting enemies much harder, where as with Cryo they simply freeze then slowly tip over (in adrenaline rush this is much easier to correct for than the biotic powers).

So long as you approach Cyro Ammo with the idea that you use your squadmates powers for protection stripping, and you use the proper weapons for the proper protections, you'll find that it will work wonders because you'll have FAR less enemies shooting at you, and killing those now frozen enemies takes even less time and ammo.

Like I said, check out the MANY youtube videos of players using it on insanity to see how valuable it is.

Every character I play that has access to cryo ammo, I ALWAYS use it.

[thisisme8]

BurnedToast wrote...

IMO... depends on the difficulty.

Easier difficulties? team cryo might be worthwhile because almost no-one has protection. Not that it matters, easy difficulties are pretty easy already but I guess it could be funny.

Harder difficulties - especially insanity? Don't bother. 1 point wonder it for shep to freeze people if you really want, otherwise it's a waste of points. By the time you've destroyed the protections they are all already half (or more) dead, and at that point EVERYTHING works on them so use lift or something.Wasting a lot of points for a situational ammo power (denies them other ammo powers or forces you to swap mid combat which is annoying) seems silly to me.

(Yes I've used it, no I've never used it on insanity, but yes I have finished the game on insanity)

Actually, Squad Cryo on Insanity is amazing.

[Kronner]

I quite like squad Cryo Ammo (SCA), but it seems quite overrated by some people.

In my experience, SCA works best on Infiltrator.
SCA was used by me and my squad most of the time. I had Viper + GPS and this was the best ammo I could ask for.
Even squadmates had the time to actually freeze multiple targets fairly often while I was moving around hidden under the cloak. Viper + SCA is crazy good combo.

SCA is a must have for this class.


Vanguard
SCA for squad, Inferno ammo for me.
I use Claymore exclusively, so for me, SCA is not very important. I usually max SCA , but that is just because Shockwave sucks. I use Slam to set up Warp bombs - SCA does not interfere with this at all.

I often haven't noticed I had not activated SCA for my squad before the fight started. Between all the Charging, I kill at least 90-95% of the enemies, so squad's damage output (and SCA) is irrelevant most of the time. Although SCA is a decent choice for the whole squad against the geth when Zaeed (and his squad Disruptor ammo) is not present.

SCA is a very good choice if you decide to go with Scimitar though and play CryoGuard, freezing everyone and using them as artifical cover.

All in all, SCA is a fairly decent power that does not compete for cooldown.


Soldier
SCA is ok, but once again, it is merely a secondary power.
Inferno is the best ammo for general use and squad Disruptor handles the rest (synthetics) and is permanently activated for my squadmates.

Modifié par Kronner, 20 février 2011 - 09:43 .

[termokanden]

That's why I set Squad Cryo for my squad and use something else for myself.



I'm playing an Infiltrator at the moment. I use Warp/Disruptor for sniping (with the Widow) and destroying shields/armor while my squad freezes targets with Squad Cryo.

[Siegdrifa]

thisisme8 wrote...

BurnedToast wrote...

IMO... depends on the difficulty.

Easier difficulties? team cryo might be worthwhile because almost no-one has protection. Not that it matters, easy difficulties are pretty easy already but I guess it could be funny.

Harder difficulties - especially insanity? Don't bother. 1 point wonder it for shep to freeze people if you really want, otherwise it's a waste of points. By the time you've destroyed the protections they are all already half (or more) dead, and at that point EVERYTHING works on them so use lift or something.Wasting a lot of points for a situational ammo power (denies them other ammo powers or forces you to swap mid combat which is annoying) seems silly to me.

(Yes I've used it, no I've never used it on insanity, but yes I have finished the game on insanity)

Actually, Squad Cryo on Insanity is amazing.

I'm no sure i get the point ....
in easy deifficulty it's good because there is no protection .... ok
in insanity don't bother because the time they loose their protection, they will be half dead ....
But in insanity they have more health than easy difficulty, so i don't see the problem.

I too, find it awsome on insanity.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 20 février 2011 - 09:43 .

[Ares Caesar]

Kronner wrote...

I quite like squad Cryo Ammo (SCA), but it seems quite overrated by some people.

I think the problem is that Cryo had a very negative reputation for a little while, and you still see some people basically write it off as "worthless" so many (myself included:whistle:) probably overdefend its value a bit much.

[Kronner]

Ares Caesar wrote...

I think the problem is that Cryo had a very negative reputation for a little while, and you still see some people basically write it off as "worthless" so many (myself included:whistle:) probably overdefend its value a bit much.

Most likely, I mean it is a decent power, but its effects are greatly diminished if you kill the enemies quickly, in which case your squad has no chance to take advantage of SCA .

Modifié par Kronner, 20 février 2011 - 09:49 .

[implodinggoat]

Ares Caesar wrote...

I think the problem is that Cryo had a very negative reputation for a little while, and you still see some people basically write it off as "worthless" so many (myself included:whistle:) probably overdefend its value a bit much.

Yeah, I was in the worthless camp early on; but it's grown on me since then.  Although I still think its pretty horrible unless you evolve it into squad cyro.

Its kind of nice as an all purpose squad ammo though since its effective on everything except for the handful of enemies that don't have any health. Aside from that putting a single point in it and using it in combination with a squad that can strip armor can make it a nice crowd control option against husks.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 20 février 2011 - 10:43 .

[thisisme8]

I think I've been defending Cryo everything since day 1. Cryo Blast, Cryo Ammo, The Avalanche... I love them all.

[termokanden]

I hated them all in the beginning. Love (Squad) Cryo Ammo now, not too used to the Avalance but it's good, but I'm still not convinced about Cryo Blast. It's a great power, but it should have had a 3 second cooldown like similar powers.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 février 2011 - 11:07 .

[JaegerBane]

termokanden wrote...
I find it hard to belive that people do not find it worthwhile on harder difficulties. Certainly helps me kill faster and provides crowd control at the same time.

The two biggest issues I have are:

1) It tends to interfere with warp bombs, due to the way the cryo mechanic works. Smashing frozen enemies is all very well and good, but if I have to choose between explosions and shattering, I'll choose explosions every time.

2) The Cryo effect has the supremely irritating habit of crowd controlling by causing enemies to fall over more often than not, thus making them a harder target compared to a Flashbanged (ahem), flamed or biotic'd opponent. I realise there are ways around it, but my view is since cryo ammo doesn't do anything else to defended enemies I shouldn't have to be d1cking about avoiding targets in specific positions and manuevering to hit opponents from a given direction when I can just use something else that does the same thing without all the nonsense.

That's not to say I wouldn't use a squadmate that had it... but it's not a power that I'd be willing to spend Shepard's squad points on. Certainly not when I have access to the Cryo Blaster.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 20 février 2011 - 11:23 .

[termokanden]

JaegerBane wrote...

The two biggest issues I have are:

1) It tends to interfere with warp bombs, due to the way the cryo mechanic works. Smashing frozen enemies is all very well and good, but if I have to choose between explosions and shattering, I'll choose explosions every time.

I don't always go for Warp bombs. I definitely don't when I'm playing Infiltrator, Soldier or Vanguard. So I'm not really choosing between Warp bombs and freezing things.

2) The Cryo effect has the supremely irritating habit of crowd controlling by causing enemies to fall over more often than not, thus making them a harder target compared to a Flashbanged (ahem), flamed or biotic'd opponent. I realise there are ways around it, but my view is since cryo ammo doesn't do anything else to defended enemies I shouldn't have to be d1cking about avoiding targets in specific positions and manuevering to hit opponents from a given direction when I can just use something else that does the same thing without all the nonsense.

It's all true, but there's just one problem with your reasoning. With Cryo Ammo it all happens automatically. No powers are being used, and you don't have to click anything. More often than not, I want this free freezing effect. Now if I could have Squad Pull Field Ammo, I guess I would use that instead.

[Gnoster]

I am actually playing my first Insanity run ever as a Soldier, so some good input for my planning here :-).



Normally I have gone the following route as Soldier (on Hardcore):

- Heightened Adrenaline Rush (4)

- Squad Disruptor Ammo (4)

- Squad Incendiary Ammo (4)

- Concussion Shot (1 point)

- Commando (4)

- Bonus power: Heavy Warp Ammo (4)



I then use Squad Disruptor/Incendiary ammo based on the opponents met, and Heavy Warp Ammo on myself.



On Hardcore my only real trouble has been a couple of missions where I was overrun by husks/abominations. This time around I have taken Armor-Piercing Ammo to combat that.

[termokanden]

Or you could take Inferno Ammo instead since you have access to it as a soldier. The damage difference between it and Tungsten Ammo isn't noticable, so I think it's a waste of a bonus power for a soldier. Besides, Inferno Ammo has a panic effect and Tungsten Ammo doesn't.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 février 2011 - 11:46 .

[Gnoster]

Hmm... good point. Might be worth a try to go with Squad Cryo Ammo and then Single Incendiary Ammo to see how that goes against husks.

Only "problem" is that leaves an open slot for a 1-point bonus power. Then again not really sure if a Soldier needs that (I dislike activiated powers like Reave on a Soldier, since it puts adrenaline rush on global cooldown).

[termokanden]

Well I won't try to advertise Cryo Ammo again. You don't HAVE to pick it just because you don't take Tungsten. You could also max a bonus power instead.



I don't honestly think soldiers even need a bonus power. Personally I'd take Slam or Neural Shock because they have such low cooldowns that they won't interfere much with Adrenaline Rush. They do their job even with only 1 point in them. For example, you'll still one-shot husks with a 1 point Slam.