114 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMonsterMash]

I'm bored of the Revenant.

[JediNg]

I was sad that the Avenger wasn't as 'good' as the others. Although not as sad as Zaeed towards his Avenger assault rifle.

[Kronner]

Avenger sucks, it is a useless weapon.

Modifié par Kronner, 20 février 2011 - 08:10 .

[termokanden]

Indeed. It's not useless when you get other assault rifles. It's useless from the very beginning



Sad but true.

[Ares Caesar]

Depends.



If you're not taking the Revenant, and dont have the Mattock, then its debatable in terms of usefulness.



Of course if you ARE able to access either of those 2 AR's then yes, its pretty much useless.



The Vindicator is nice, but the limited ammo capacity and the fact its 3 shot burst "precision weapon" does somewhat place it in a more "situational" status than the Mattock.



If you're not using your AR at ranged distance, and are using as a CQC "spray" weapon, then the Avenger might have a bit of value.



Overall, it is pretty much more of a starter weapon though, and if you have the Mattock its useless, and also useless if you're a class with access to any of the SMG's as well.

[termokanden]

I don't know about that. I wouldn't hesitate to use the Vindicator instead.



On the other hand, I still use the starter pistol even though I have the two others.

[BurnedToast]

Kronner wrote...

Avenger sucks, it is a useless weapon.

IMO it's the best assault rifle for non-soldiers unless you want the extra shield damage from geth pulse rifle (mostly useful for adept), or bought the cheat gun (mattock). 

For soldiers... yeah, revenent beats it. What do you expect? it's the upgrade gun.

Modifié par BurnedToast, 20 février 2011 - 08:28 .

[thisisme8]

The Mattock is hands down the bast AR. I like the BR too though.

[Kronner]

BurnedToast wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Avenger sucks, it is a useless weapon.

IMO it's the best assault rifle for non-soldiers unless you want the extra shield damage from geth pulse rifle (mostly useful for adept), or bought the cheat gun (mattock). 

For soldiers... yeah, revenent beats it. What do you expect? it's the upgrade gun.

Non-Soldier have access to Locust, which is what Avenger should have been. Locust makes Avenger totally obsolote for non-Soldier classes.

[implodinggoat]

Sadly yes, the Avenger is so underpowered that its useless as soon as you get the Vindicator, Mattock or Revenant.



Its a shame too since the gun looks cool, is fun to fire, and could have filled a nice niche as a balanced gun with good suppressive fire, plenty of ammo and moderate accuracy. Unfortunately like all the more balanced full auto assault rifles (Avenger, Geth Pulse Rifle, Collector Rifle) its just too damn weak to be viable.



I really hope they balance the weapons out in ME3 because its a shame to see a unique gun like the Avenger rendered obsolete and worthless (Same goes for the Mantis, Incisor, Katana, Predator, Geth Pulse Rifle and to a lesser extent the Collector Rifle).

[Kronner]

implodinggoat wrote...

I really hope they balance the weapons out in ME3 because its a shame to see a unique gun like the Avenger rendered obsolete and worthless (Same goes for the Mantis, Incisor, Katana, Predator, Geth Pulse Rifle and to a lesser extent the Collector Rifle).

Katana is good, and Predator is actually very good. I agree about the rest though.

Modifié par Kronner, 20 février 2011 - 09:46 .

[implodinggoat]

Kronner wrote...

Non-Soldier have access to Locust, which is what Avenger should have been. Locust makes Avenger totally obsolote for non-Soldier classes.

The Locust definitely renders the Avenger obsolete and honestly I'd rather have a Tempest or even a Shuriken than an Avenger. 

I tried the Avenger out on a mission with a lot of Husks recently and it took an eternity to bring down even one of them.  The thing is ludicrously underpowered.

Personally I think the addition of the Locust generally makes Assault Rifle training a poor choice for non soldiers; but if you take assault rifle training the Mattock is a beast and the Vindicator is pretty slick as well.  Since both the Mattock and Vindicator are high accuraccy and low ammo weapons they compliment a Tempest SMG very nicely.

[implodinggoat]

Kronner wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

I really hope they balance the weapons out in ME3 because its a shame to see a unique gun like the Avenger rendered obsolete and worthless (Same goes for the Mantis, Incisor, Katana, Predator, Geth Pulse Rifle and to a lesser extent the Collector Rifle).

Katana is good, and Predator is actually very good. I agree about the rest though.

I really think the Predator needs to do a bit more damage and have a bit more ammo although I feel the same way about the Carnifex.  That said I haven't used the Predator much recently so maybe I'm not being fair.

As for the Katana, I think all the non DLC shotties have too short a range; but aside from that an Eviscerator beats it out in damage per shot and range while a Scimitar beats it out in DPS, crowd control and ease of use.  And if you bring the Claymore and GPS into the equation its hard to see much upside to it.  If the non DLC shotties had more range then I think the Katana could be a viable option; but since they're basically point blank weapons striking a balance isn't really an option since you'll either want to tank out with a Scimitar and lay down multiple shots or focus on doing as much damage as possible in a single shot in which case the Katana trails the Eviscerator, Claymore and charged GPS.

For ME3 I'd like to see them up the range on all the shotties (except the GPS) to a range similar to that of the Eviscerator while upping the Eviscerator's range a little further to keep its unique feel.  Honestly I don't know who told Bioware that shotguns aren't effective beyond 10 feet.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 20 février 2011 - 10:08 .

[Kronner]

implodinggoat wrote...

I really think the Predator needs to do a bit more damage and have a bit more ammo although I feel the same way about the Carnifex.  That said I haven't used the Predator much recently so maybe I'm not being fair.

Predator does less damage, but is more forgiving. Pretty fair deal IMHO.

implodinggoat wrote...
As for the Katana, I think all the non DLC shotties have too short a range; but aside from that an Eviscerator beats it out in damage per shot and range while a Scimitar beats it out in DPS, crowd control and ease of use.  And if you bring the Claymore and GPS into the equation its hard to see much upside to it.  If the non DLC shotties had more range then I think the Katana could be a viable option; but since they're basically point blank weapons striking a balance isn't really an option since you'll either want to tank out with a Scimitar and lay down multiple shots or focus on doing as much damage as possible in a single shot in which case the Katana trails the Eviscerator, Claymore and charged GPS.

Short range is purely gameplay decision, it was changed only by the addition of overpowered Firepower pack, (which should have been called Cheatpower pack). Katana offers pretty good damage/RoF ratio, I don't like it that much, but it is certainly viable choice. It's the basic shotgun, so it should be slightly worse than the other models.

implodinggoat wrote...
For ME3 I'd like to see them up the range on all the shotties (except the GPS) to a range similar to that of the Eviscerator while upping the Eviscerator's range a little further to keep its unique feel.  Honestly I don't know who told Bioware that shotguns aren't effective beyond 10 feet.

I'd like them to keep Shotguns as purely CQC weapons (melee range in ME), since it encourages and rewards you for being aggressive.
GPS should be removed altogether imho, or maybe redesigned as heavy weapon.

Modifié par Kronner, 20 février 2011 - 10:17 .

[implodinggoat]

I don't really think limiting the range on shotties so severely is really necessary to encourage aggression since the point blank damage modifier already rewards you for getting up close and personal.



Aside from that giving them that limited range limits their usefulness unless you're a vanguard or playing as some kind of tank build (Assault Sentinel, etc.). For example until the Eviscerator came out I never used my shotty when I was playing as a soldier.



I find the Eviscerator to be a very nice balance. It has enough range to be useful as more than a charge in point blank style weapon; but it still forces you to get close.

[JaegerBane]

implodinggoat wrote...

Sadly yes, the Avenger is so underpowered that its useless as soon as you get the Vindicator, Mattock or Revenant.

Its a shame too since the gun looks cool, is fun to fire, and could have filled a nice niche as a balanced gun with good suppressive fire, plenty of ammo and moderate accuracy. Unfortunately like all the more balanced full auto assault rifles (Avenger, Geth Pulse Rifle, Collector Rifle) its just too damn weak to be viable.

I really hope they balance the weapons out in ME3 because its a shame to see a unique gun like the Avenger rendered obsolete and worthless (Same goes for the Mantis, Incisor, Katana, Predator, Geth Pulse Rifle and to a lesser extent the Collector Rifle).

The overall weapon balance in Mass Effect 2 is awful. Virtually every weapon class has at least one which is so underpowered that there is no good reason to use it and one that is so overpowered that there is no reason not to use it. While this isn't necessarily a bad situation for an RPG, we're talking about a game where there are 5 weapon classes and over 25 seperate weapons, so that means there's a *lot* of rubbish in there.

Assault rifles are particularly bad off as the only ones worth using are the Mattock, which is hilariously badly balanced, and the soldier-exclusive Revenant which can't be wielded by anyone else and yet is outperformed by the Mattock on the one class that can wield it. Everything else is either obsolete (the vindicator was a fine weapon but serves no purpose with the Mattock in the game) or just possess so little DPS that they're worthless.

Other classes, of course, aren't quite as up the creek but aren't balanced either. There are 4 sniper rifles in the game yet only two of them are worthwhile while shotguns are generally balanced, barring the first one which has every single negative characteristic of shotguns yet no real bonuses.

I really hope Bioware do a better job of balancing the stuff in the third game - or at the very least, if they're going to just overpower some stuff and underpower others, don't block certain classes from getting them. The weapon balance in the first game wasn't great either - the Spectre X stuff outpeformed everything - but so long as you could wield the class you could just go get it, so it didn't penalise one class over the other - and the best gun was available to everyone.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 20 février 2011 - 12:05 .

[nuclearpengu1nn]

yes

i have the all dlcs

so when i get to normandy after freedom's progress

i get mattock riflle or collector's rifle

pretty much i only used avenger cause i had to use it at freedom's progress

[Khan the Mad]

I don't have the Collector Rifle, so I tend to use Avenger on some missions, because it is the only fully-automatic assault rifle until you get the Geth Pulse Rifle or Revenant.



Obviously, we need a new DLC with a fully-automatic assault rifle, so I don't have to put up with the Mattock until I get the Revenant (not complaining about the performance, just that I play soldiers to get assault rifles, not scopeless sniper rifles).

[JaegerBane]

Khan the Mad wrote...

I don't have the Collector Rifle, so I tend to use Avenger on some missions, because it is the only fully-automatic assault rifle until you get the Geth Pulse Rifle or Revenant.

Obviously, we need a new DLC with a fully-automatic assault rifle, so I don't have to put up with the Mattock until I get the Revenant (not complaining about the performance, just that I play soldiers to get assault rifles, not scopeless sniper rifles).

I'd buy that. Much as I enjoy using the Revenant on my modded Adept, I'd prefer to have a gun that was a little more rounded. At the moment if I want to use an automatic rifle I've got a choice between a pea-shooter or a big chaingun that looks like it came off a battlemech. Something in between would be nice.

[swn32]

BurnedToast wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Avenger sucks, it is a useless weapon.

IMO it's the best assault rifle for non-soldiers unless you want the extra shield damage from geth pulse rifle (mostly useful for adept), or bought the cheat gun (mattock). 

For soldiers... yeah, revenent beats it. What do you expect? it's the upgrade gun.

If u want to gimp yourself, then avenger is the way to go. That being said, its still possible to play aggresively with avenger and barrier.

[termokanden]

JaegerBane wrote...

Khan the Mad wrote...

I don't have the Collector Rifle, so I tend to use Avenger on some missions, because it is the only fully-automatic assault rifle until you get the Geth Pulse Rifle or Revenant.

Obviously, we need a new DLC with a fully-automatic assault rifle, so I don't have to put up with the Mattock until I get the Revenant (not complaining about the performance, just that I play soldiers to get assault rifles, not scopeless sniper rifles).

I'd buy that. Much as I enjoy using the Revenant on my modded Adept, I'd prefer to have a gun that was a little more rounded. At the moment if I want to use an automatic rifle I've got a choice between a pea-shooter or a big chaingun that looks like it came off a battlemech. Something in between would be nice.

Funny thing is the Locust fills that role perfectly. But it's not an assault rifle.

[Khan the Mad]

That, and Soldiers never get it. If I'm playing another class, I probably didn't want to take an assault rifle that time anyway, so it is not particularly useful (unless I'm playing an Infiltrator pre-Widow and want to conserve ammo).

[JaegerBane]

termokanden wrote...

Funny thing is the Locust fills that role perfectly. But it's not an assault rifle.

I wouldn't say that it fills the role 'perfectly' - it's got adequate DPS and range but it's clip capacity doesn't lend itself well to suppressive fire - but that point alone emphasises how absurd the situation is. A submachine gun makes a better assault rifle than an assault rifle.

There shouldn't be any clearer indication that there needs be a better assault rifle available. This is part of the reason why I have a negative view of the Mattock (besides it being OP). When Bioware said there was a new assault rifle in the works, I was like 'great, an upgraded Avenger is on the way!'. Needless to say I wasn't particularly impressed when I found that they'd not only ignored a clear gap in the arsenal, but also rendered a perfectly acceptable battle rifle obsolete in the process.

[naledgeborn]

I usually equip Grunt with the Avenger because he can stay out of cover longer than other squaddies. Zaeed, Garrus, and Samara get the Vindicator because they have 270 health at best and because of the short bursts before reloads. Legion gets the GPR because of RPing purposes. Mattock is useless for squad mates because semi-auto rate of fire. I do use the Avenger/Vindicator when I get bored of the Revenant though. The Avenger makes Insanity harder.

[JimL68]

I don't think the weapon choices are that bad. All the pistols have a good balance between damage and clip size. I generally prefer the Carnifex as a generalized pistol but use the Predator for husk missions and Phalanx as an early game sniper weapon.

The sniper rifles are all good.The Mantis has nice damage and is good against armor in return for its slow RoF. I'll generally stick with Viper as my all around SR. I don't like the Incisor as much but it's still useful. I like the Widow better with a Soldier but it's a solid choice for an Infiltrator.

All of the shotguns are pretty good but I generally prefer the Scimitar or Eviscerator. The GPS is actually better at a range where you can hit multiple enemies. That's not how I like to use a shotgun. I'm actually not a big fan of the Claymore. The Eviscerator seems a better overall choice. On Insanity, Claymore doesn't guarantee one hit kills so the one shot at a time thing is a dealbreaker for me. Katana is ok for a starter shottie but Scimitar outclasses it.

I don't have the Collector rifle but the Mattock and Vindicator are solid choices. I prefer to use the Mattock as a poor man's SR with caster characters but also use it on soldiers. The Avenger is pretty horrible but it does have a lot of ammo. I only used the Revenant once. I didn't like it as a day to day AR. I treated it more like a heavy weapon for spraying big targets.

Before the Locust, I really didn't like SMGs. The Shuriken is weak and inaccurate and the Tempest has so much recoil, you have to stick to short bursts. The Locust really opens up other weapon choices for non-Soldiers. Without a good medium range weapon, I would never have tried CQC with a Sentinel or Infiltrator. AR bonus with Mattock was my usual choice.