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Impression of the convention demo at TGS2011 (warning, long post)


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#1
Naitaka

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(I won't be commenting on the story and sound since the sound was turned off on the demo machine.)

Dragon Age II: Convention Demo Impression
Playtime: 10~15 mins per session, about 3 sessions, one for each class

Graphic & Aesthetic

Characters are much more refined this time around compared to DA:O. Not only did they improve the models and texture, alot of work has gone into making subtle and unique animation for each scene. The armors are more detailed with interesting shape language, the proportion of female human character looks to have been greatly improved as well. What really impresses me is minute change to character's brow and corner of the mouth while talking and the facial expressions during emotional scenes are also very noticable. Just goes to shows how much work Bioware has put into making the cinametic (including the conversations) believable. Sure, it might not be L.A. Noir, but it certainly is leaps and bounds ahead of Origin. I remember DA:O having that one shocked facial expression for just about everything that happens in the game.
        
The only problem I have is with the oversized weapons. Bioware explained the necessity for it in DA:O due to recognizability in top-down view, but they only seem to have gotten wider and thicker in DA:2; the two-handed sword in the beginning section is especially bad with that ridiculous long handle. The combat animation also looks very awkward. It's not a question of whether flashy animation is preferable or not, it's the quality of the animation itself that bothers me. The attacks look stiff and jerky carrying no weight and momentum, and the characters all look like their lower body is rooted to the ground during auto-attack sequence. While it wasn't much of a problem in DA:O, now that the game has adopted a more ARPG control on the console, I'd expect it to have the same quality of animation from an action game. A good example is Tera, a korean MMORPG, the two handed weapon animation are completely over the top but because it has very smooth transition and weight behind each attack, it looks natural to its art style. DA2 feels like it still in that awkward inbetween place. Oh, the channeling animation when casting Firestorm really stands out on the other hand, very cool animation for that one.

I only got to see Lothering and ran around Kirkwell for a few minutes so I can't judge the over all quality of the environment. From what I've seen though, Lothering looks rather uninspired. The barren landscape with those jutting rock formation looks like nowhere in Feralden we've seen. I know the Darkspawn spread the blight wherever they go, but I never knew they're capable of terraforming the landscape. It also lack signs of ruin with those huge empty fields. Kirkwell on the other hand looks quite impressive, the scale is believable and befitting for a large city, unlike Denerim in Origin. They seem to have built level vertically much more than they did previously, it gives a better sense of space and grandeur. If I have to nitpick, I think the only flaw that stood out was the fact the scene just looks too "clean". Everything looks brand new and you don't really see signs of people living there.

Control & Camera

First I've got to say kudos to Bioware for making the choice to make the combat more reactive in DA2. The movement control is smooth and attacks and talents have excellent response time across all three classes. The choice to give closing attack to melee class makes the combat very fast paced and exciting. I find myself forgetting to control my companions because I was enjoying the action aspect of the combat so much. I've never played DA:O on console so I cannot make comparison, but switching between companions on controller is intuitive, and pausing and issuing commands works much like they did in Mass Effect 2. Attack is performed pressing A, and skills are performed with the X, Y, B buttons, holding down the Right Trigger gives additional row of skills.

There is one problem however, the enemies seems have way too much health at low level. WIthout access to many skills, I have to spam the A button so many times my hand was sore after playing the demo. The fight with the Ogre was especially bad in that regard. It also impede camera control. The camera in DA:2 on default setting doesn't seem to follow your character very well so if you sudden turn around to attack you'll often find your camera facing backward and you can't spare your thumb to turn it manually because you have to keep tapping the A button.It was pretty annoying and forced me to pause constantly to adjust camera angle which destroy the flow of the game as an action rpg.

Gameplay & Mechanic

This is the part of DA2 where I'm most satisfied with. I'm sure most of you have read the talen description I've posted so I won't go into details about that. However, the cross class combo implentation and the talents themselves are nothing short of genius. It reminds me alot of Monster Hunter and Xenoblade but with a much more complex and interesting twist to it due to the tactical aspect DA2. The talent tree system is intuitive and allow alot of freedom so we seldom need to put points in talents we never use as pre-requisit anymore. Since the inventory was blocked in the demo, I can't really comment on the itemization. The companion AI seems pretty bad this time around when it comes to tactic though. I find my mages wasting Fireball and Mind Blast, and generally being frustratingly stupid. Bioware did add some more conditions to the tactic but it's not nearly enough compared to what Advanced Tactic did for DA:O. I don't mind micro-managing all my aoe spells since I do it anyway in Origin, however I can see this being a problem for other players.

I can't really comment on the game's difficulty much at this stage in the game,I sincerely wish Bioware would move away from statistical difficulty more. Tweaking numbers to increase difficulty is the oldest trick in the book, but it's also quite boring from player point of view. Now that DA:2 features enemy waves it would be very interesting to see challenges that test our coordination and control, which also add alot of replayability. Say a particular encounter typically spawns 2 waves of enemies on Normal and Hard, but it spawns an extra wave of archers on the balcony in Nightmare, suddenly it's a totally different situation that requires different strategy to handle. Or things like a boss having shifting vulnerability and resistence to different elements or attacks that require player to pay close attention to which talent to use and when. The dialogue wheel on the other hand has been a much debated topic.

Personally, I've been quite vocal against paraphrasing and voiced PC in general. The intent icon does help a bit to prevent the infamous Thane I WANT YOU scenarios, however, I still find that often what Hawke says is completely unexpected and has very little to do with the paraphrase if at all. I find myself just ignoring what the wheel says and pick by the icon itself which really doesn't feel much like role-playing to me. However, I've come to accept DA:2 for what it is. It a completely different game with very different focus from Origin. Sure, I'm going to miss the freedom to role-play in Origin, but DA:2 stands on its own just as much as Mass Effect 2 did with its own pros and cons. I think we should just appreciate DA:2 for what it is and wait and see what Bioware has in store for us in DA:3. Who knows, they might take a whole new direction again.

Conclusion

Overall, I have to say I'm generally optimistic about DA2. While it's apparent it won't give me thesame kind of complete role-playing experience as DA:O, it's certainly an entertaining game in itself. Also, looking at the game from a different perspective really makes it alot easier to ignore some of the design choices I might not have agreed with when I try to treat the game as an extention of Origin in my mind. The combat mechanic and the tactical aspect of the game has been improved so much I'm afraid I won't be able to stand DA:O combat at all after a run through DA:2. It also offers alot of of replayability with all the combination of classes and skill trees with synergy between them. I know that I will enjoy DA:2 based what I've seen for sure, it might not be perfect, but I certainly don't regret my Pre-order. Now I'm really looking forward to the release date. Oh and even more so,  to the evantually release of toolset+, crossing my finger and hoping they'll confirm it soon.

Modifié par Naitaka, 20 février 2011 - 03:43 .


#2
Dan_cw

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Thankyou for posting this, Naitaka.

RE controls:

Is it not possible to toggle the 'pressing A to keep attacking' off? I.e press it once and then your character auto-attacks.

I thought I read that there was an option to do so anyway, but I could be wrong. (For both the consoles and PC this is. I believe it's an option on the PC, but not sure 100% sure about the consoles.)

Modifié par Dan_cw, 20 février 2011 - 10:52 .


#3
nightcobra

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Dan_cw wrote...

Thankyou for posting this, Naitaka.

RE controls:

Is it not possible to toggle the 'pressing A to keep attacking' off? I.e press it once and then your character auto-attacks.

I thought I read that there was an option to do so anyway, but I could be wrong.


yes, there's a toggle on consoles to revert the gameplay to "auto-attack".

it's not an option on PC though. pc will have auto-attack only. the devs found the "pressing A to keep attacking" not satisfying/clunky/"not feeling right with the mouse" on pc.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 20 février 2011 - 10:55 .


#4
Dan_cw

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Cheers, Nightcobra.



I thought I'd read that, just couldn't remember where.

#5
Naitaka

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nightcobra8928 wrote...

yes, there's a toggle on consoles to revert the gameplay to "auto-attack".


That's good to hear, I do wish they make the camera follow your character more in press A to swing mode though. Not sure we can tweak that in the option, I didn't really have time to look at it closely. Despite my criticism, I actually think it's more fun this way on console for sure. Once we get more powerful attacks, it probably won't take so long to kill a Hurlock anyway.

#6
ShdwFlash

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Great stuff. Thanks for posting this!

#7
AtreiyaN7

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Can you give an example of one of the paraphrases used, the intent icon and the spoken response? I'm curious to see how much of a mismatch there is. I'm fine with paraphrases and intent if the spoken line conveys the correct emotion, but I know that others won't be.

I don't really expect the paraphrase to tell me exactly what I'm going to say, but I would hope that there is at least some loose correlation between the paraphrase and what the character ultimately says..It may work better for some people than others, but we'll have to see. At least it sounds like the intent icons are working as intended, heh, seems unlikely that you'll end up in awkward situations.

Thanks for posting btw.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 20 février 2011 - 11:24 .


#8
Naitaka

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Just off the top of my head, I remember there's one when discussion the Darkspawn taint, where I chose a sarcastic/humor line that says "sounds bad" and my Hawke said something about "I guess that's uncurable?" which just didn't sound particularly sarcastic or funny. Another one was when you and your sister met a certain Templar, and you get an Aggressive option to say "stay away from my sister!" but Hawkes goes on to say something like "Hey I'm watching you... *glare*" and didn't mention anything about Beth at all. I thought I was going to get one of those over-protective big brother line there. :(

#9
Dan_cw

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Naitaka,

Curious about something here. When you chose the aggressive option regarding the sister, had you been choosing nicer responses prior to that?

I know the dialog changes when you're not prompted based on the types of responses you've previously selected. However, I'm also wondering if that would change the dialog for aggressive options when prompted?

There's some kinks to the dialog system I don't fully understand yet. But that'll be cleared up on the 22nd hopefully.

Modifié par Dan_cw, 20 février 2011 - 01:21 .


#10
Naitaka

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Hmm I think I went with all aggressive stance on that playthrough, like I said, I didn't have alot of time to test it and the demo doesn't have a save feature so I kinda just wanted to see each response is in isolation because I couldn't pick and repick and see what changes and what not. I'm waiting for the demo on 22nd as well because that's the subtle stuff that will make the dialogue really interesting.

#11
drahelvete

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Naitaka wrote...

Just off the top of my head, I remember there's one when discussion the Darkspawn taint, where I chose a sarcastic/humor line that says "sounds bad" and my Hawke said something about "I guess that's uncurable?" which just didn't sound particularly sarcastic or funny.


What did the icon look like? Was it a mask or a gem?

#12
Naitaka

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drahelvete wrote...

What did the icon look like? Was it a mask or a gem?


I don't remember, sorry. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie] I just know it's purple and in the middle, so I assume it was sarcastic/humor, maybe it wasn't? What does a gem mean?

Modifié par Naitaka, 20 février 2011 - 01:38 .


#13
Dan_cw

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Naitaka wrote...

Hmm I think I went with all aggressive stance on that playthrough, like I said, I didn't have alot of time to test it and the demo doesn't have a save feature so I kinda just wanted to see each response is in isolation because I couldn't pick and repick and see what changes and what not. I'm waiting for the demo on 22nd as well because that's the subtle stuff that will make the dialogue really interesting.


Cheers for the response.

#14
drahelvete

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Naitaka wrote...

drahelvete wrote...

What did the icon look like? Was it a mask or a gem?


I don't remember, sorry. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png I just know it's purple and in the middle, so I assume it was sarcastic/humor, maybe it wasn't? What does a gem mean?


Charming, I believe. It's purple (I think) and in the middle too.

Modifié par drahelvete, 20 février 2011 - 01:57 .


#15
Noviere

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Thanks for the write up!

#16
Erani

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Cool stuff, thank you for sharing. ^_^

#17
themageguy

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in ur mage through were u stuck with limited spell selection or did you get to use say, stonefist? the demo footage ive seen magehawke has fire ice and arcane spells.

and what was ur fav spell and why.

thanks in advance.

#18
Adhin

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Yeah its not just the 3 things, there's 12 or so Icons for all different kinds of things. If you watch the videos that one dude posted up recently, that taint thing was a Diamond. It's not a sarcastic or joking its more of a 'I shouldn't be an ass here' thing, with out being nice like the diplomatic or erm, nice, response would be.

I also kinda figured that camera thing would be a bit of an issue, but with how I played DAO (I realize it wont be the same) I rarely moved the camera around to often mid combat unless I was moving location. But then, I played DAO on console multiple times, I'm probably more used to the camera angle and all that. I try to position the camera to get a good grasp of stuff prior to the assault. Though that's a lot easier with a ranged char. Melee always has to look all over, ah well, one of them things you get used to (or toggle on auto-attack heh).

-edit-
Oh um, and if you get the time... add some paragraph spacing in there man, jebus some of thats a literal text-wall! :blink:

Modifié par Adhin, 20 février 2011 - 02:44 .


#19
ViSeiRa

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That's a nice recap of your experience there, sad about the paraphrases though... I knew it was gonna be like this but I was hoping I might be proven wrong :-(

Modifié par ViSeirA, 20 février 2011 - 02:48 .


#20
ViSeiRa

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Adhin wrote...

Yeah its not just the 3 things, there's 12 or so Icons for all different kinds of things. If you watch the videos that one dude posted up recently, that taint thing was a Diamond. It's not a sarcastic or joking its more of a 'I shouldn't be an ass here' thing, with out being nice like the diplomatic or erm, nice, response would be.


Re-watch the video, the option had the purple troll face icon, not the gem one.

#21
scootermcgaffin

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The taint line isn't "I guess that's uncurable," it was "I suppose that's the uncurable sort of taint, then?" if I remember correctly, which is a good deal more humorous than the former. No, it's not roffle my waffle hilarious, but it's still a much more laid back line than the others will likely be.

#22
Tleining

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about the paraphrases: The devs already pointed out that they show the intent of what is being said. So Hawke is keeping an eye on the Templar, because he/she wants to protect Bethany.

That was the whole Point of the Paraphrasing, they didn't want us to read something, and then have Hawke repeat it. It's the intent and can alse be seen as follow-up. I.e.: "Stay away from my sister. I'm watching you, Templar!!!"

#23
ViSeiRa

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scootermcgaffin wrote...

The taint line isn't "I guess that's uncurable," it was "I suppose that's the uncurable sort of taint, then?" if I remember correctly, which is a good deal more humorous than the former. No, it's not roffle my waffle hilarious, but it's still a much more laid back line than the others will likely be.


She says exaclty "And this corruption is the permanent sort I take it?", where's the humor in that? or the sarcasm? as I said, the negatives of paraphrasing were there in Mass Effect and now they're here for Dragon Age, no point in denying it.

#24
LordPaul256

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Thanks. This has provided me with more of the information that I actually wanted than any interview or article I've read so far.

#25
scootermcgaffin

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ViSeirA wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

The taint line isn't "I guess that's uncurable," it was "I suppose that's the uncurable sort of taint, then?" if I remember correctly, which is a good deal more humorous than the former. No, it's not roffle my waffle hilarious, but it's still a much more laid back line than the others will likely be.


She says exaclty "And this corruption is the permanent sort I take it?", where's the humor in that? or the sarcasm? as I said, the negatives of paraphrasing were there in Mass Effect and now they're here for Dragon Age, no point in denying it.

I'm sorry that it's not the single most hilarious thing anyone has ever said? It's still a subtle, laid-back, not taking the situation quite as seriously as it deserves line. Which is exactly what it should be.