52 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonoru]

Thanks for this Naitaka.

[Eclipse_9990]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

The taint line isn't "I guess that's uncurable," it was "I suppose that's the uncurable sort of taint, then?" if I remember correctly, which is a good deal more humorous than the former. No, it's not roffle my waffle hilarious, but it's still a much more laid back line than the others will likely be.

She says exaclty "And this corruption is the permanent sort I take it?", where's the humor in that? or the sarcasm? as I said, the negatives of paraphrasing were there in Mass Effect and now they're here for Dragon Age, no point in denying it.

I'm sorry that it's not the single most hilarious thing anyone has ever said? It's still a subtle, laid-back, not taking the situation quite as seriously as it deserves line. Which is exactly what it should be.

"And this corruption is the permanent sort I take it?" Really? Thats funny? 
Um...Okay.. To each our own. 

[scootermcgaffin]

I am pretty sure I actually said it's not funny.

Like, those were my words.

No, it's not roffle my waffle hilarious, but it's still a much more laid back line than the others will likely be.

Yup, there they are.

Modifié par scootermcgaffin, 20 février 2011 - 03:11 .

[Naitaka]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

The taint line isn't "I guess that's uncurable," it was "I suppose that's the uncurable sort of taint, then?" if I remember correctly, which is a good deal more humorous than the former. No, it's not roffle my waffle hilarious, but it's still a much more laid back line than the others will likely be.

Ah that does sound good deal more laid back than the other options. My memory must have failed me then. Anyway, I'm not bothered by the dialogue system as much now as before, I'm content to treat it as a new game instead of a continuation of Origin.

Tleining wrote...

about the paraphrases: The devs already
pointed out that they show the intent of what is being said. So Hawke is
keeping an eye on the Templar, because he/she wants to protect Bethany.

That was the whole Point of the Paraphrasing, they didn't want us
to read something, and then have Hawke repeat it. It's the intent and
can alse be seen as follow-up. I.e.: "Stay away from my sister. I'm
watching you, Templar!!!"

The problem is, I was playing a mage in that playthrough, and with the way Hawke and Aveline's husband growling at each others, it look like they have some sort of personal vendetta instead of "stay away from my sister!"

themageguy wrote...

in ur mage through were u stuck with limited spell selection or did you get to use say, stonefist? the demo footage ive seen magehawke has fire ice and arcane spells.
and what was ur fav spell and why.
thanks in advance.

No actually, I got to pick whichever spell I wanted in the demo I played. I heard it's different in the public demo video so they're probably different build of the game? Anyway I went down the primal path and got chain lightning but it was pretty weak at low level to be honest. I had bethany try out the creation school but didn't get a chance to test out heroic aura. Mind Blast has a really small radius and seem quite hard to land though, it's not nearly as awesome as the Origin version.

Modifié par Naitaka, 20 février 2011 - 03:40 .

[Eclipse_9990]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

I am pretty sure I actually said it's not funny.

Like, those were my words.

No, it's not roffle my waffle hilarious, but it's still a much more laid back line than the others will likely be.

Yup, there they are.

Bleh. Sorry I just woke up so didn't really comprehend your post. Ugh.. I need new glasses.. 

[JJDrakken]

How do you go BACKWARDS with your Tactic System, Honestly? I loved that system, I told friends,  you know what, I wish Mass Effect has this system, I wish many team based RPGs had that system

You make it sound they F'd thier own system up.



JJ

[Tleining]

@ Naitaka

uh, i don't get it. Sorry, apparently my brain isn't working right now.

Could you explain your point? Beth is mentioned in the Paraphrase, so you as a player know that what comes next is in regards to her, even if it isn't mentioned in the spoken line.

[Walker White]

JJDrakken wrote...

How do you go BACKWARDS with your Tactic System, Honestly? I loved that system, I told friends,  you know what, I wish Mass Effect has this system, I wish many team based RPGs had that system

You make it sound they F'd thier own system up.

He said that it is better than BioWare's tactics in DA:O, but not better than a community mod that improved them.

[Naitaka]

JJDrakken wrote...

How do you go BACKWARDS with your Tactic System, Honestly? I loved that system, I told friends,  you know what, I wish Mass Effect has this system, I wish many team based RPGs had that system

You make it sound they F'd thier own system up.



JJ

No no, there's nothing wrong with the tactic system, it's the companion AI itself that seems to have been broken. For example, Bethany acquire target for fireball in the strangest way, she doesn't aim at the nearest cluster and seem to run back and forth. If I set Enemy: Clustered with at least 2 allies -> Fireball. She'd keep throwing fireballs at running enemy and missing them completely. Also, when I set Self: Surrounded by 2 enemies -> Mind Blast she would cast it out of range the whole time. I don't think it takes the smaller radius of Mind Blast into consideration.

For the record I love the tactic system. I was just teaching my friend how to use more in-depth tactic set up the other day. However, the lack of modding on release means we won't have access to Advance Tactic for quite awhile or mods that increase the number of tactic you can have.

Example:
1.Target: At mid to long range -> Go to 7
2. Self: Being attacked by ranged or magic attack -> Go to 7
3. Target: Stunned -> Behavior: Cautious
4. Target: Immobolized -> Behavior: Cautious
5 . Self: Being attacked by melee attack -> Dirty Fighting
6. Self: Being attacked by melee attack -> Pinning Shot
7. Self: Any -> Behavior: Range

My archer would attack whoever's using melee attack at short range with Dirty Fighting and if it fails, then with Pinning Shot, then should would change to cautious behavior and move away from the target. Once she reach mid to long range she'll switch back to range behavior.

Modifié par Naitaka, 20 février 2011 - 04:02 .

[Naitaka]

Tleining wrote...

@ Naitaka
uh, i don't get it. Sorry, apparently my brain isn't working right now.
Could you explain your point? Beth is mentioned in the Paraphrase, so you as a player know that what comes next is in regards to her, even if it isn't mentioned in the spoken line.

What's in the paraphrase is the intent, and what Hawke says is the response. If the intent is to protect your sister, Hawke's line completely fail to convey that message. We can't just tag the paraphrase and the spoken line together because that's not what Hawke's expressing to whoever he's speaking to. I could put in the paraphrase I hate banana, and put in the spoken line, "Ugh today's breakfast is awful" people wouldn't understand what you hate about the breakfast.

[The Elder King]

Nataika, have you played as a mage or as a warrior that dialogue (sorry it this have been asked)? Because in the mage part I remember that the paragraph said "Get him away from me" or something similar, while as a warrior it said "Get away from my sister" or something similar. At least that was like that in the first public demo

[Naitaka]

hhh89 wrote...

Nataika, have you played as a mage or as a warrior that dialogue (sorry it this have been asked)? Because in the mage part I remember that the paragraph said "Get him away from me" or something similar, while as a warrior it said "Get away from my sister" or something similar. At least that was like that in the first public demo

They might have changed it then, I remember seeing skills being locked in the public demo he showed but they were all revealed on the version that I played. I also got to see someone else talking to NPC in Kirkwell and running around unlike the montage of cinematics in the public demo. For example, He had to walk to the hanged man himself to talk to Isabella.

[andar91]

Thanks for your impressions.



The devs didn't intent for the paraphrases to mirror exactly what Hawke says. It was explained that the act of reading the paraphrase is part of the conversation experience, and they didn't want him to repeat what the paraphrase already said. So the paraphrases are related to the actual spoken line, and the character continues along that tone of conversation. I view it as steering the conversation in certain directions rather than controlling every step of it (which you could never do anyway). I know some people would hate this, but I think it's a sacrifice worth making for a voiced PC and a cinematic experience.

[The Elder King]

Naitaka wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Nataika, have you played as a mage or as a warrior that dialogue (sorry it this have been asked)? Because in the mage part I remember that the paragraph said "Get him away from me" or something similar, while as a warrior it said "Get away from my sister" or something similar. At least that was like that in the first public demo

They might have changed it then, I remember seeing skills being locked in the public demo he showed but they were all revealed on the version that I played. I also got to see someone else talking to NPC in Kirkwell and running around unlike the montage of cinematics in the public demo. For example, He had to walk to the hanged man himself to talk to Isabella.

I suppose we have to wait Tuesday. I hope at least that the response in that case are different between warrior/rogues and mages

[drahelvete]

Naitaka wrote...

We can't just tag the paraphrase and the spoken line together because that's not what Hawke's expressing to whoever he's speaking to.

One of the writers (Luke, I think?) recommended that we do just that.
I can't find the post now, but it was about a month ago.

[HolyAvenger]

yes, imagine the phrase you click is the first sentence hawke speaks and then the paraphrase is the rest of the convo. That is what one of the writers said.





Thanks for the review.

[Adhin]

Yeah the idea behind the radial menu, whats always been the idea since back with ME1 was the paraphrase is basically the quick 'whats in your head before you speak' stuff. It's more in line with how people actually have conversations. When you have a conversation with someone, unless your pretending to be some kinda cracky-pot-head hybrid, don't sit there deciding what to say. Anyone in here who hasn't said something, and as there saying it thinknig 'oh god did I just say that' is either lying to them selves or hasn't ever held much of a conversation.

Point im trying to get across is, the ICON is the intent for easier management. The Paraphase is the basic quip in your head, the feeling your delivered line will be. So read that and put it infront of the delivered line, realizing the first quip is quite literally in Hawkes (your) head, and the spoken line is what ends up coming out. It works best if you select before they're finished speaking as the conversation flows more naturally.

Anyway's from the youtube videos of the demo, the only one they have where he picks the lower option hes playing a mage and the text, the paraphrase is different then when hes playing a warrior and selects the sarcastic option. Mage paraphrase is "just keep him back", Hawke says "I'm watching you templar'. Paraphase for the warrior/rogue one is "Keep him away from my sister". Not sure what the directly spoken line is though.

Either way I think it all works out pretty well, but then I've liked it since ME1 did it, and the intent icons (only the icons are intent!) should make the system easier to use, which I like.

[Rimfrost]

Also they seem to indicate the combat has been retuned with fights taking less time ( less butoonmashing) since the demo

[Ms .45]

Adhin wrote...

Point im trying to get across is, the ICON is the intent for easier management.

I've always interpreted the "trollface" as the relatively light-hearted option, rather than the wet-your-pants funny option. As such, the line about the permanent sort of corruption is lighter in tone than whatever the other options are. I don't expect that I'm necessarily going to cack myself every time I press that button.

Kirkwell on the other hand looks quite impressive, the scale is believable and befitting for a large city, unlike Denerim in Origin.

Don't forget that in Origins you only saw individual parts of Denerim, such as the market and the alienage, never the city as a whole. Also, given that Ferelden seems to be regarded as a bit of a backwater by its visitors (Marjolaine, Sten et al), Denerim may only be a major city by the standards of a country that "smells like wet dog".

[Vicious]

I've always interpreted the "trollface"

I sense a mod idea...

[Grandmaster Love]

Nice info,I'm interested in the graphics,how would you rate them 1-10(I'm interested in how much attention bioware put in graphics since it was a major goal for them)

[Basheda]

Naitaka wrote...

The companion AI seems pretty bad this time around when it comes to
tactic though. I find my mages wasting Fireball and Mind Blast, and
generally being frustratingly stupid. Bioware did add some more
conditions to the tactic but it's not nearly enough compared to what
Advanced Tactic did for DA:O. I don't mind micro-managing all my aoe
spells since I do it anyway in Origin, however I can see this being a
problem for other players.

I played the press demo too and experimented with the AI. I think they wasnt fully implemented in the demo. I got several error on changing the AI and most changes do nothing after everything looks fine.

An small example for Aveline... Enemy:Any -> Use: Shield Bash

As an result Aveline never used Shield Bash. The same happend on all other AI changes and I tried a lot. The default AI seems to work, but all changes and additions are ignored. The only exception was the deactivation of predefined AI commands, this works.

[AtreiyaN7]

Naitaka wrote...

Just off the top of my head, I remember there's one when discussion the Darkspawn taint, where I chose a sarcastic/humor line that says "sounds bad" and my Hawke said something about "I guess that's uncurable?" which just didn't sound particularly sarcastic or funny. Another one was when you and your sister met a certain Templar, and you get an Aggressive option to say "stay away from my sister!" but Hawkes goes on to say something like "Hey I'm watching you... *glare*" and didn't mention anything about Beth at all. I thought I was going to get one of those over-protective big brother line there.

Hmm, I can see both lines working in the context given, but I suppose it depends entirely on each player and their interpretation.

1) "I guess that's uncurable." <---- That I can visualize being said in a dry tone of voice (mild, light sarcasm) - not really meant to be hilarious or a gutbuster.
2) "Hey, I'm watching you..." <---- Implied threat in Hawke's tone and expression -  he knows the templar is eyeballing Betthany and is getting him to back off without making an actual direct  threat (which I might do, because I think the chances are if you outright verbally threaten a templar in a major city, you might end up thrown in prison).

Anyhow, thanks again - sounds like it will work out okay (for me at least - mileage may vary for others of course).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 21 février 2011 - 10:40 .

[Stevie 402]

Naitaka wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

yes, there's a toggle on consoles to revert the gameplay to "auto-attack".

That's good to hear, I do wish they make the camera follow your character more in press A to swing mode though. Not sure we can tweak that in the option, I didn't really have time to look at it closely. Despite my criticism, I actually think it's more fun this way on console for sure. Once we get more powerful attacks, it probably won't take so long to kill a Hurlock anyway.

Thanks for all the info on the talent/spell trees and for your review of the demo. It has been most helpful. I have DAO on PS3 and I enjoyed the combat control scheme. The only thing I missed was the over head camera view to better plan my attacks on hard and nightmare. I also really liked the tactics set up. My team AI was really good and usually followed the tactics I had for them.  

[robmokron]

Tahnks your Awesome Rep+ if possible XD