57 réponses à ce sujet

[SyntheticC]

Well, apparently the Dex you were using didn't have enough avoidance to at least dodge 1 of those blows.. so your Dex is meaningless anyway, right?

You keep arguing 'what if' when facts have been laid out.. Con will be needed in the game.. sacrifice your Dex and Willpower to make it accessible or suffer the consequences.. or hell.. make it harder on yourself and never give anyone any Con so they can be top heavy for whatever stat you want. It's up to you.. Welcome to RPGs!

/thread

Modifié par SyntheticC, 28 octobre 2009 - 08:40 .

[SheffSteel]

OMG UR right he died anyway CON is useless dude WTF


Alternatively, the higher your health, the more likely you are to survive a combat. The higher your CON, the less likely you are to get knocked over, stunned, and maybe poisoned. The enemy will have archers and spellcasters too, and if you are hoping that your tank is going to be able to do some kind of dirty WoW trick to guarantee that no-one else ever gets attacked, then you are hoping for a game that's a lot simpler and less interesting.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 28 octobre 2009 - 08:48 .

[Ailith Tycane]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Has this become the new useless attribute for anyone who isn't in the direct line of fire? If you're getting hit a lot as a rogue, mage, fighter DPS odds are you or your tank are doing something wrong.

Sure you're going to get hit sometimes and there's bound to be AOE's but nothing worth wasting points in CON for because it's not going to be enough to save you and those point are better spent elsewhere.

You're thinking with a very D&D like mentality. "Wasting points" wont be as much of an issue in this game, since you get a lot, and can go well above what you normally can in a D&D game. Having one or two points off wont completely break your character.

[Khadroth]

Go watch the combat going on in warden's quest right now, at least 50% of the time the mobs aren't beating on the tank (unless its a boss). Sheff brings up a great point too, CON does more than just boost HP. Besides the very thing you're complaining about is exactly what would have happened if you had gotten your change to willpower since only mages would want the stat. Thus I'm branding this another "wah I want more points to put into STR" post.

[Some Dude On The Internet]

Like several of you pointed out, It would be interesting to see if adding CON at the beginning had a cumulative effect (or to put it another way, if it is NOT retroactive, so any time you level with a lower CON, you miss out on whatever HP gain would have been available at that level)...

[SheffSteel]

Some Dude On The Internet wrote...

Like several of you pointed out, It would be interesting to see if adding CON at the beginning had a cumulative effect (or to put it another way, if it is NOT retroactive, so any time you level with a lower CON, you miss out on whatever HP gain would have been available at that level)...

I'm pretty sure they won't put in any gotchas. In other words, it's going to be something like

HP = ( 5 + CON Bonus ) x Level + Race Bonus

[Jacks-Up]

Some Dude On The Internet wrote...

Like several of you pointed out, It would be interesting to see if adding CON at the beginning had a cumulative effect (or to put it another way, if it is NOT retroactive, so any time you level with a lower CON, you miss out on whatever HP gain would have been available at that level)...

I think it pretty much has to or no one will put points in it after a certain level, you could just stack it for the first few and have higher hp at end game than somone with higher CON that put points in later.

[soteria]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

This isn't an MMO. Thinking that a tank will be able to soak up all the punishment that will be coming his way or that he can use consistant aggro mechanics will leave you bleeding in a ditch.

Even in MMOs, constitution is pretty valuable.  The main thing that holds a guild up in progression is people dying on boss attempts from incidental damage.

[Khadroth]

soteria wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

This isn't an MMO. Thinking that a tank will be able to soak up all the punishment that will be coming his way or that he can use consistant aggro mechanics will leave you bleeding in a ditch.

Even in MMOs, constitution is pretty valuable.  The main thing that holds a guild up in progression is people dying on boss attempts from incidental damage.

Yes but at least in that sense it's 90% player retardation, and 10% actual health issues. Most MMO mistakes come from failed execution of strategy (or failed strategy altogether) and/or tunnel vision.  This game's combat is slower and in some aspects more tactical than most MMO's from what we've seen so far.

[isvalla]

why are you comparing a pause-and-play, singleplayer, micromanageable game with an MMO in terms of combat? xD



The trinity is fine with every character played by "human" and designed to be challenging that way, this isn´t the case.

Plus none of us has played the game yet and is most likely that we will "screw" our first character until we get the hang of the game and know the mechanics.



Regarding the post, con is never ever ever ever useless on a rpg whether pc or p&p, you might have other priorities and other things more important but never useless. Now wisdom on D&D for a warrior (or char or intelligence for that matter)... that was useless, but con on a mage? not a chance.

[052Hagen]

I rather like to think "tanks" will act as front line melee fighters who take the heaviest blows from the strongest opponents, rather then beeing the only ones who ever take a hit (see comparsions made to MMOs). By and large the BG/NWN aggro system is much preferable to this in my opinion.

Modifié par 052Hagen, 28 octobre 2009 - 10:06 .

[Arttis]

Your gonna need some Const.The boss fights arent gonna be like WoW where you can have your tanks take all the hits.In this game no threat meter and lots of area moves.So your damage dealers are gonna be taking quite a few hits so some constitution is needed.All it takes is for one monster to run in and hit your allies a few times then with oen special move then your friend is dead.At least when your at a high level.

Modifié par Arttis, 28 octobre 2009 - 10:16 .

[flungmuk]

As many have alreay stated, CON is fairly important. Maybe not the be all end all for some classes, but well worth the investment some of the time.

Unless your RPing Raistlin when he was still in the Red.

Or just hit the DAO Costco and by barreles of health potion.

[manneger]

For someone like me who never played an MMO this whole thread seems pretty strange.



Obviously constitution is going to be more important for the frontline guys. And obviously constitution is not going to be completely unimportant for anyone.



For mages or archer/stealth rogues i expect con to be one of the least prioritized attributes,with maybe 10% of the points or something. For most melee fighters i expect con to be one of the highest prioritized with maybe 30%, and maybe even more if i try to do this tank-thing that everyone is talking so much about.

[soteria]

Khadroth wrote...

soteria wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

This isn't an MMO. Thinking that a tank will be able to soak up all the punishment that will be coming his way or that he can use consistant aggro mechanics will leave you bleeding in a ditch.

Even in MMOs, constitution is pretty valuable.  The main thing that holds a guild up in progression is people dying on boss attempts from incidental damage.

Yes but at least in that sense it's 90% player retardation, and 10% actual health issues. Most MMO mistakes come from failed execution of strategy (or failed strategy altogether) and/or tunnel vision.  This game's combat is slower and in some aspects more tactical than most MMO's from what we've seen so far.

Kinda.  There's also "gear checks" where if you have less than X health you'll get killed instantly, or less severe cases where you realistically need a certain health cushion to survive aoe effects.  Similarly, in a single player game like this, without a certain amount of hp you stand in danger of getting insta-gibbed by stray monsters.

[Silver Sparkle]

I think its been clarified how important constitution is for the blood mage specialization.

Its critical for that class. You don't use mana to power ur spells but life. So yea a blood mage would probably have atleast 50 in constitution.

However so far I havent seen anyone clarify if constitution also boosts a blood mage's spell power like magic stat does for a regular mage ...... So this is a major bottleneck. What if a bloodmage has to also boost magic stat to get stronger spells ??

I think the blood mage specialization will be challenging. What do folks here think ??

- high constitution to power blood mage specialization. high magic stat to power the Arcane Warrior specialization. In this combo does the high magic stat also boost spell power for the blood mage ??

Can anyone throw a little more light on this subject ?

Modifié par Silver Sparkle, 29 octobre 2009 - 10:17 .

[G-four]

On my first run through my PC was the main tank.

Strength 42 +4
Dexterity 59 +2
Willpower 18 +3
Magic 12
Cunning 14 +2
Constitution 17 +2

So even for a tank con is not that vital I think.

Oops sorry didn't see it was an old threat sorry for the necro.

Modifié par G-four, 26 février 2010 - 02:05 .

[Cuthlan]

Oh you son of a... you sucked me in with your necrothreadia..

Modifié par Cuthlan, 26 février 2010 - 02:33 .

[soteria]

You realize this discussion was before the game was actually released, right? I was actually arguing in favor of using constitution for everyone in this thread. Now I argue pretty strongly that it's useless for everyone... my how times change.

Modifié par soteria, 26 février 2010 - 02:37 .

[Sidney]

manneger wrote...

For someone like me who never played an MMO this whole thread seems pretty strange.

Obviously constitution is going to be more important for the frontline guys. And obviously constitution is not going to be completely unimportant for anyone.

The MMO lingo is bizarre and way, way, way too OCD for my tastes but I disagree. I rarely dish out much in the way of CON even to warriors. In my experience, tanks with low DEX and high CON get slaughtered because foes do enough damage that you can't hope to just take the abuse and live - especially with flanking attacks. DEX is the way to survivability because if you can't take a hit and live not getting hit is the best way to go. The things CON helps with are overall much more minor problems than the general gettign whacked by every sword in the place.

[G-four]

Cuthlan wrote...

Oh you son of a... you sucked me in with your necrothreadia..

Sorry, let me make it up to you. I'll give you a long wet kiss

[Dansayshi]

Since starting a new game im finding con to be utter crap past 20 points for any char tbh. Alistair, being my tank, iv just gave him enough strength to wear armour's and then pumped him full of dex. Iv scrapped item sets too for items with +dodge and spell resistance, even if its leather. So far has 40% dodge from + dex dodge and 30% spell resist.

Works far better than the traditional plate and constitution imo. Why have 400 health when you can have 200 and not take a hit?

Kind of dissapointed in the items too, some "tanking" gear has say, +3con, which is like 30 health? lulz

Modifié par Dansayshi, 26 février 2010 - 04:08 .

[Mlai00]

Fireballs and chain lightnings WILL hit you no matter how much dex you have, fyi.

[bzombo]

if you have heavy armor, 400 health, and a decent dex that is fine too. there are enough power ups to make multiple strategies work, which is what is nice about this game.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

and +3 con I think is like +15 health. <_<

and the fireball / chain lightning example is why you go after them first, or have a good healer