85 réponses à ce sujet

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Which has every chance of breaking her and turning her into "Darth Benezia"..

Why? LotSB shows us that she's a strong woman, and that she's emotionally capable and resilient enough to make the hard decisions when no other options exist. I fail to see how reforming the Shadow Broker network is going to warp her into a cold, ruthless shell of her former self. Quite the opposite, in fact. She's overseeing and leading a fundamentally good process.

you forget... mac is writing this... he's already screwing things from ME1 up. =/

[AdmiralCheez]

*walks in*



*reads OP*



*leaves*

[CroGamer002]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

*walks in*

*reads OP*

*leaves*

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

you forget... mac is writing this... he's already screwing things from ME1 up. =/

I'm hopeful that Patrick Weekes will continue to write Liara's character, and that BioWare will keep Mac Walters far away from her.

but with him being over the whole story, doesn't that mean he could be like... I want liara to be hardcore and edgy and make things splode!!!!!! 

?

Anyway, hopefully not. He's done enough screwing with the story.

[AkiKishi]

adneate wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
Which has every chance of breaking her and turning her into "Darth Benezia"..

So having to help kill your own mother is easy to do and could never break a person but rejecting contracts that are distasteful would most assuredly destroy a person and turn them into a twisted perversion of their former self?

One would think killing a parent would be more difficult than saying no to something over the phone but apprently not!

Did I ever say it was ? 

I said impersonating the ShadowBroker has every likelyhood of completing the journey of corruption. We have already seen a glimpse of dark Liara in her office on Ilium. It's not like any of this stuff is just plucked out of thin air.

[jbblue05]

Unless your Shepard goes in cryo sleep for 200 years Liara is NOT getting preggers.



Liara isn't fertile at the age of 108

[Confused-Shepard]

Liara reminds me of Ezio from Assassin's Creed II

Both essentially children when we encounter them but forced to mature and grow up due to circumstances and coming out stronger for it. Liara's already become a bit more meaner and tougher but I doubt she will turn into a bond villain. I bet she will be forced to make a few renegade decisions to keep the balance of power but will do more paragon actions to make up for it

[Xilizhra]

We have already seen a glimpse of dark Liara in her office on Ilium.

Notably, the instant Liara finds out that Feron is definitely alive, her desire for revenge on the Shadow Broker vanishes completely; her driving goal here is only to rescue Feron from then on.

Liara isn't fertile at the age of 108

The Matron stage is stated to be one where an asari typically experiences the desire to raise children, not the only stage where they're capable of having children. Humans can get pregnant at 15, but most don't want to.

[naledgeborn]

Oh look, another Liara topic satiated with feminism. It's starting to bother me more than the Talimancers because I actually like the character.

[AkiKishi]

Xilizhra wrote...


Notably, the instant Liara finds out that Feron is definitely alive, her desire for revenge on the Shadow Broker vanishes completely; her driving goal here is only to rescue Feron from then on

.

She still takes up the mantle of ShadowBroker though whatever her motives might be. Remember the tragedy of an "Anakin Skywalker" is not that they are bad people, they just made a bad choice that put them in a spiral they could not recover from.

I prefer sweet Liara but I can't really find anything wrong with the direction the writer has taken her.

[Xilizhra]

Oh look, another Liara topic satiated with feminism. It's starting to bother me more than the Talimancers because I actually like the character.

Allow me to say that bringing up real-world politics on the BSN will get a topic slapped down rather fast.

She still takes up the mantle of ShadowBroker though whatever her motives might be. Remember the tragedy of an "Anakin Skywalker" is not that they are bad people, they just made a bad choice that put them in a spiral they could not recover from.

What "bad choice" has she even made? It's a gigantic information network; she could throw it away and leave all of its members to go their separate ways, probably with many of them wreaking havoc, or she could take control of it and direct it to help Shepard fight the Reapers. Hell, there's a decent chance she'll let Feron run the thing once the Reapers are gone, especially if Shepard romanced her. And honestly, there are far better characters to go all darksidey with than Liara.

[AkiKishi]

Xilizhra wrote..

What "bad choice" has she even made? It's a gigantic information network; she could throw it away and leave all of its members to go their separate ways, probably with many of them wreaking havoc, or she could take control of it and direct it to help Shepard fight the Reapers. Hell, there's a decent chance she'll let Feron run the thing once the Reapers are gone, especially if Shepard romanced her. And honestly, there are far better characters to go all darksidey with than Liara.

Being ShadowBroker may well turn out to be one, depending on how it's written. If she helps you because of the network but goes "Anakin" in the process that just makes it all the more tragic.

For example ?

I think Liara is absolutely perfect for it.She has the ideal personality. She has the corrupting influence, and she has the "for the greater good" goal.

[jbblue05]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Matron stage is stated to be one where an asari typically experiences the desire to raise children, not the only stage where they're capable of having children. Humans can get pregnant at 15, but most don't want to.

Asari wanting to have children is hormonal.
Liara won't have maternal instincts for 200+ years.
Plus Liara can choose to not have children.

[AkiKishi]

jbblue05 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Matron stage is stated to be one where an asari typically experiences the desire to raise children, not the only stage where they're capable of having children. Humans can get pregnant at 15, but most don't want to.

Asari wanting to have children is hormonal.
Liara won't have maternal instincts for 200+ years.
Plus Liara can choose to not have children.

By the time she is ready Shepard will be dead. Sad but likely true.

[Xilizhra]

Being ShadowBroker may well turn out to be one, depending on how it's written. If she helps you because of the network but goes "Anakin" in the process that just makes it all the more tragic.

There's good tragedy, and then there's just plain stupid tragedy. I believe this scenario to be the latter.

For example ?

TIM. He's already evil. Possibly the Virmire Survivor, though that's more likely to be based on circumstance if the Alliance is opposed to Shepard, and it'd probably still end well. Just... not Liara, though I don't think Bioware will go this route anyway.

Asari wanting to have children is hormonal.

Liara won't have maternal instincts for 200+ years.

Plus Liara can choose to not have children.

Not all asari march in lockstep with the general trends of their life cycles, as stated in the codex. Of course, Liara could choose not to have children, and I wouldn't force her into it. But she might want some.

[AkiKishi]

Xilizhra wrote...

There's good tragedy, and then there's just plain stupid tragedy. I believe this scenario to be the latter.

TIM. He's already evil. Possibly the Virmire Survivor, though that's more likely to be based on circumstance if the Alliance is opposed to Shepard, and it'd probably still end well. Just... not Liara, though I don't think Bioware will go this route anyway.

Why is it stupid ? If it's stupid because it takes the character somewhere you don't want it to go, that's fine. But I don't see anything inherently stupid about it.

TIM is already evil, there is nothing tragic about TIM being even more evil.  That's the point of an "Anakin" the more idealistic they start off the better. That's what makes her the ideal In EP1 you have the idealistic "kid" who is darkened by what she encounters. In EP 2 we have her taking up the mantle of power "for the greater good" and In EP III she completes the journey  by being corrupted by the very thing she tried to use to fight the evil.

VS is so tied to the Alliance they will go where ever the alliance goes with morality.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 20 février 2011 - 06:44 .

[Xilizhra]

Because I don't believe that it would be in-character for Liara, and because the Shadow Broker network hasn't been shown to be inherently corruptive. The previous Shadow Broker was a vicious murderer before he was even brought off of Parnack, as far as I can tell. The one(s) before that, we have no idea of; however, as an information-gathering tool, the network seems like it's probably cleaner than any of the mercenary companies we see.

Long story short, the network was evil before because the previous Shadow Broker was. Liara is not. And the network, unlike the Dark Side in Star Wars, isn't a supernatural force of corruption. Plus, of course, there's all the nasty gender issues brought up by LET.

[AkiKishi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Because I don't believe that it would be in-character for Liara, and because the Shadow Broker network hasn't been shown to be inherently corruptive. The previous Shadow Broker was a vicious murderer before he was even brought off of Parnack, as far as I can tell. The one(s) before that, we have no idea of; however, as an information-gathering tool, the network seems like it's probably cleaner than any of the mercenary companies we see.
Long story short, the network was evil before because the previous Shadow Broker was. Liara is not. And the network, unlike the Dark Side in Star Wars, isn't a supernatural force of corruption. Plus, of course, there's all the nasty gender issues brought up by LET.

You don't believe it having seen Liara's darkside in the first scene on Ilium? 

You don't need anything supernatural. There are plenty of RL instances of power corrupting.

No idea what the nasty gender issues or LET is.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 20 février 2011 - 06:54 .

[Xilizhra]

You don't believe it having seen Liara's darkside in the first scene on Ilium?

Not really, no. She was in a dark place in her life at that point, but she's been lifted out of it.

You don't need anything supernatural. There are plenty of RL instances of power corrupting.

Yes, but it does mean that your comparison isn't all that good.

No idea what the nasty gender issues or LET is.

LesEnfantsTerribles. He brought them up earlier in the thread, but basically it's unfortunate implications about women especially being corrupted by power.

[jlb524]

I think Wrex should go mad with powah instead.



Darth Wrex. Hurr hurr.

[AkiKishi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not really, no. She was in a dark place in her life at that point, but she's been lifted out of it.

Yes, but it does mean that your comparison isn't all that good.

LesEnfantsTerribles. He brought them up earlier in the thread, but basically it's unfortunate implications about women especially being corrupted by power.

And she can just as easily go back it's a flaw similiar to the one Anakin had in SW.

If you can think of a better one please do.

I really don't care about that stuff I picked her because she was the best fit, not because she was female. Although technically they are not I guess.

jlb524 wrote...

I think Wrex should go mad with powah instead.

Darth Wrex. Hurr hurr.

Seems plausible if the Genophage is cured. The Krogans base nature is no different than it was under Wrex than under Wreave. Wrex is progressive, but he's not a peacemaker.

Thats something more than likely outside Shepards lifetime. Could be the same deal with Liara too.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 20 février 2011 - 07:12 .

[Xilizhra]

And she can just as easily go back it's a flaw similiar to the one Anakin had in SW.

Let's face it; in the films themselves, Anakin was just a douchebag by nature. Liara doesn't really display any of Anakin's personality traits, or even anything similar.

If you can think of a better one please do.

To be honest, I think this plot point is completely stupid and unnecessary because it doesn't fit in with the main themes of the story. Star Wars' heart was a very personal story arc of familial corruption and redemption; Mass Effect is much less personal, as it has to be because it's a video game without a totally defined protagonist. Even individual enemies are, in a way, representative of larger forces, and moral corruption in general has never been much of a theme throughout the series.

[Wulfram]

jlb524 wrote...

I think Wrex should go mad with powah instead.

Darth Wrex. Hurr hurr.

Wrex has already gone mad with power.  He's acting far too reasonably for a proper Krogan

[AkiKishi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Let's face it; in the films themselves, Anakin was just a douchebag by nature. Liara doesn't really display any of Anakin's personality traits, or even anything similar.


To be honest, I think this plot point is completely stupid and unnecessary because it doesn't fit in with the main themes of the story. Star Wars' heart was a very personal story arc of familial corruption and redemption; Mass Effect is much less personal, as it has to be because it's a video game without a totally defined protagonist. Even individual enemies are, in a way, representative of larger forces, and moral corruption in general has never been much of a theme throughout the series.

I don't think you can blame the character for the failings of the actor.

All characters need to grow whether PC or NPC thats just one way that Liara can grow as a character. Maybe it will be your choice as Shepard whether to get the most out of the network costing lives and putting Liara on the path of corruption, or try to protect Liara from it by not using it to it's full potential which will costs lives somewhere else and maybe weaken your position strategically.