12 réponses à ce sujet

[Sandy2009]

Is it only me who finds the implementation of Blood magic ideas half baked? There is lot of information about BM sprinkled thought the game.

Let's first review few things about blood magic:

- To unlock BM, you have to make a deal with Desire deamon. She says she will come back and possess Conner at some later time and you have to agree to that. You were chasing the deamon to free the boy but, in a way, you sold your soul in exchange for knowledge. At the end of that dialogue she gives you warning "Goodluck... you will need it!". That had a chilling effect on me at that time. I thought I will be penalized in some ways for making the deal with her but I see no such thing in the game .

- Wynne is a senior mage from circle of magi and she is against blood magic (very clear from her actions when you meet her and her other dialogue options). However, once she becomes member of your party, she does not care if you use BM and she is standing right there next to you. I was thinking she will leave the party or atleast have major disapproval rating... but no such thing. In fact, you can even turn her into blood mage at level 7/14.

- Alistair is a templar but has no objection when you use BM.

From role playing point of view I would have loved to see some consequences of BM as follows:

1. You cannot recruit Wynne if you have unlocked BM specialization.
2. You cannot kill desire deamon ever if you have made a pact with her in any game (since unlocking of specializations continue in future games).
3. Your magic should have penalty when fighting other blood mages, specially Uldred, Mad hermit (even other deamons like sloth).
4. This is scary thought but if you have been using BM and you are a powerful mage (above level 20), there are chances you become an abomination at the end of game (just like flemeth, who had also made pact with a deamon) . If you use Blood sacrifice, your chances of becoming abomination are much higher. Wynne describes in one of her dialogue options that there is thin line between powerful blood mage and an abomination.

Choices must have consequences in role playing game and choosing to use evil forces should have major repercussions for your character. Comments!!!

[Batorific]

there is actually dialogue from Wynne (i believe) at the end of the Broken Circle quest where she'll call you out to Irving and Graegoir for using blood magic. it's unused however without the use of mods. they probably didn't leave it in because the half the party would have a fit at you for it.

[SuicidalBaby]

1. You cannot recruit Wynne if you have unlocked BM specialization.
No one knows about your transaction with the desire deamon for the boys soul, not yours.

3. Your magic should have penalty when fighting other blood mages, specially Uldred, Mad hermit (even other deamons like sloth)
Where does it say that the Hermet is anything but apowerful apostate gone mad? What is this special resistance other than them being more powerful than you? Do blood mages gain spirit resist by osmosis? Demons have blood and it still boils last I checked. ( well, you know what I mean.)

4. This is scary thought but if you have been using BM and you are a powerful mage (above level 20), there are chances you become an abomination at the end of game (just like flemeth, who had also made pact with a deamon) . If you use Blood sacrifice, your chances of becoming abomination are much higher. Wynne describes in one of her dialogue options that there is thin line between powerful blood mage and an abomination.
Blood magic is evil by whos view? The Chantrys. How one uses the power of blood should determin the karma brought on, not the meer stigma bias and pretentious institutions carry about for rthe use of control. One evil, as you put it, is brought about by another. Persecution can drive those with power to seek out more power for the means by which to simplely survive at any cost. Thus making both parties the worser and just as culpable. Chantry lies are no less evil than those put forth of any demon, they simply take more time to come into play. (see exalted march, slaughter as means to control who has the power.)

Wynne also folds like a house of cards to a simple line when you slaughter the Dalish even after doing her regret quest.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 20 février 2011 - 08:18 .

[rayvioletta]

I always make Wynne a blood mage after recruiting her just for the hell of it

[Sandy2009]

No one knows about your transaction with the desire deamon for the boys soul, not yours.

*******     When you accept bribe, you are selling your OWN soul. Desire deamon controls men by offering them what they desire... wealth, power, knowledge, fulfillment of dreams. She offered you bribe in exchange for taking control of Conner later on and you accepted it. In my mind, the desire deamon wins that battle. She now has control over you. I have looked at that scene with deamon many times on youtube that's how it is written. You succumb to her temptation.

*******  The way this game works, your party knows about your decisions even if they were not present at that time. If you vile Andraste's ashes with dragon blood, Leliana will know about it even if she is not present there. She will question you in camp and leave the group.



Blood magic is evil by whos view? The Chantrys. How one uses the power of blood should determin the karma brought on, not the meer stigma bias and pretentious institutions carry about for rthe use of control. One evil, as you put it, is brought about by another. Persecution can drive those with power to seek out more power for the means by which to simplely survive at any cost. Thus making both parties the worser and just as culpable. Chantry lies are no less evil than those put forth of any demon, they simply take more time to come into play. (see exalted march, slaughter as means to control who has the power.)


********  Blood magic is evil because it gave magisters of Tevinter Imperium power to invade Golden city, which led to creation of darkspawn. BM blurs moral lines and its users easily end up hurting rest of society. Do you think sacrificing your own party member to regain your own health is evil (blood sacrifice)?

If you don't believe in maker, don't believe in chantry then why are you fighting darkspawn (just because Duncan told you)? Sloth deamon offers you extreme power, chance to join his group of blood mages... you should just take it.


I always make Wynne a blood mage after recruiting her just for the hell of it

. Game should not allow you to choose specializations that contradict somebody's personalities.

[SuicidalBaby]

Sandy2009 wrote...

No one knows about your transaction with the desire deamon for the boys soul, not yours.

*******When you accept bribe, you are selling your OWN soul. Desire deamon controls men by offering them what they desire... wealth, power, knowledge, fulfillment of dreams. She offered you bribe in exchange for taking control of Conner later on and you accepted it. In my mind, the desire deamon wins that battle. She now has control over you. I have looked at that scene with deamon many times on youtube thats how it is written. You succumb to her temptation.

*******The way this game works, your party knows about your decisions even if they were not present at that time. If you vile Andrastes ashes with dragon blood, Leliana will know about it even if she is not present there. She will question you in camp and leave the group.



Blood magic is evil by whos view? The Chantrys. How one uses the power of blood should determin the karma brought on, not the meer stigma bias and pretentious institutions carry about for rthe use of control. One evil, as you put it, is brought about by another. Persecution can drive those with power to seek out more power for the means by which to simplely survive at any cost. Thus making both parties the worser and just as culpable. Chantry lies are no less evil than those put forth of any demon, they simply take more time to come into play. (see exalted march, slaughter as means to control who has the power.)


********Blood magic is evil because it gave magisters of Tevinter Imperium power to invade Golden city, which led to creation of darkspawn. BM blurs moral lines and its users easily end up hurting rest of society. Do you think sacrificing your own party member to regain your own health is evil (blood sacrifice)?

If you dont believe in maker, dont believe in chantry then why are you fighting darkspawn (just because Duncan told you)? Sloth deamon offers you extreme power, chance to join his group of blood mages... you should just take it.


I always make Wynne a blood mage after recruiting her just for the hell of it

. Game should not allow you to choose specializations that contradict somebodys personalities.

First off the only thing the demon gets out off the bargin is life and Conner. Nothing else is implied. Following that, ALL of the conversations lead to the assumption by EVERYONE that nothing is wrong with the way you delt with the demon. You clearly dont understand how this 'game' works. No one person was in the Fade with you during the transaction. There is a reason you lie to Bann Teagen afterwards. No one knows, "not even the boy." said the demon.(probaby not in your youtube lol)
People know about the destruction of the Ashes because other individuals were there, people do tend to have conversations to each other without you in this game. Not to mention you suddenly have a deciple emmisary in camp! Big difference in the situations.
Man's own hubris led to the creation of darkspawn. Original sin tainting heaven. Thier mere pressence caused the corruption in themselves, no single incantation.
Blood Sac-Not if the next action I take is to heal them. To defeat a threat that will consume us all demands sacrifice from everyone. Any warrior would accept his fate before stepping into battle. Prepared to die for what he believes. Grey Wardens accept their fate and draw strength from that conviction. This conviction allows them do to what it takes in order to kill the Archdeamon. Even to use someone like Loghain. One may even use the blood of animals for such a spell, so your hangup over it may be avoided.
Sloth demon offers you a short lived dream world where you die eventually. Uldred offers extreme power at the cost of submission and enslavement to him. Both are easily fell to your use of blood magic for the good cause of ridding the Circle of true evil.

Means justify the ends. You must help the pragmatic visionary who commits murder and betrayal of his own family in order to drag his entire race out of the darkages in order to change the foreseeable path into a bleek future. Means justify the ends when it comes to the destruction of everything. You and your blood magic not being there to face the Archdemon result in a couple of chanty folk, a dog, and an 'apostate' being slaughtered and ending any hope of saving Ferelden. Soon after, Ameranthine falls without a fight, then the last of the dwarven strongholds. Orlais sits on the last possible front now that the darkspawn control an entire country. Full of weaken populace from civil war ready to be converted into Broodmothers spawning a nation of pure evil by witch could all had been prevented if it werrent for the ignorant preconceptions of the "faithful."

[SuicidalBaby]

But you are right in that there should be reprocusions for actually having the specialisation. I wouldnt agree with you about it simply being unlocked, that would cause replayability issues and does not make sense for one person to pay for anothers crimes. You are showing your skewed views on the game with that idea btw. There are mods to satisfy just about any issue you may have though. (pc)
If any thing Blood Magic activated in town, circle, or in view of innocents should garner panic, fear, intimidation, and attacks from the proper sources.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 21 février 2011 - 11:11 .

[Last Darkness]

The Grey Wardens are allowed to the use Blood Magic to combat the Blight.

[SuicidalBaby]

I was hoping for more of a fight from this one. Guess you can't expect the pious to have much imagination. Ahh well.....

[Sandy2009]

Last Darkness wrote...

The Grey Wardens are allowed to the use Blood Magic to combat the Blight.

Well then they should put it in the game. Wynne shoud not get a fit when she finds out you are blood mage .

The other problem is the grey warden likes to engage in local politics, topple kings, murder anybody he does not like (ser cathrine), even act as bounty hunter (assasination of ambassador). Anybody who questions acts of Grey warden ends up with his head chopped off. If you make your grey warden chaotic evil character, blood magic in his hands can be extremely dangerous.

How many players killed the high dragon just for fun. What did that dragon do to you?

By the time game ends, most players don't even know if their hero is still a Jedi knight or has turned into darth vader.

Modifié par Sandy2009, 22 février 2011 - 02:08 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Nearly all of your good deed actions have negitive results. Orz chanter cut down, destroying the anvil destroys any control over the research thus making way for just anyone to give it a go, which results in the horrors that come later. Siding with Harrowmont drags the dwaven race further into isolation.

The true path is pragmatic. Good guys finish dead, leaving a wake of good intentions and bad endings for a lot of people.

[Sandy2009]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Nearly all of your good deed actions have negitive results. Orz chanter cut down, destroying the anvil destroys any control over the research thus making way for just anyone to give it a go, which results in the horrors that come later. Siding with Harrowmont drags the dwaven race further into isolation.
The true path is pragmatic. Good guys finish dead, leaving a wake of good intentions and bad endings for a lot of people.

Yes. I believe the only players who fully ended the blight are those with ultimate sacrifice (my understanding is the soul of archdeamon dies with US). The hero finds his own redemption that way (just like Vader asks Luke to end his life of pain). It is a dark game.

[SuicidalBaby]

The orphanage gets that across real fast.