51 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

Let's say you recruited Loghain, meaning Alistair has left the party and the grey wardens.
You also refuse to do the dark ritual.

When the archdemon is nearly slain, Loghain offers to sacrifice himself for
the good of Ferelden. A patriot to the end. But, are there any reasons
for the warden to sacrifice him or herself instead of Loghain, despite
his crimes and wish for atonement?

Modifié par Collider, 20 février 2011 - 08:48 .

[Morwen Eledhwen]

I'd say, if you lost the Landsmeet and had to do the Brawl in the Hall before dueling Loghain and recruiting him, then it might make more sense to let him live. The Grey Wardens will need to be rebuilt and their reputation restored once the Blight is over. If Loghain retained the support of the Banns in the Landsmeet, he would be in a better position to do that than your PC. If you turned the Landsmeet against him, however, then people are more likely to listen to you than to him.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Cuz he's too sexy to die? :wub::wizard:

Just kidding. Morwen pretty much stated about the only reason I could see. Otherwise, not only is it something wants to do, but it seems the most fitting end for the Hero of the River Dane.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think Costin's dwarf (Duran?) thought that asking anyone to sacrifice their souls to be too much, so he decided to do it. It's not really clear what happens to the soul of the Warden, but the whole thing does imply its annihilation.

[rayvioletta]

while trying to convince you to do the ritual Morrigan offer a rather selfish justification for not letting him do it, basically that by sacrificing himself he becomes a hero and doesn't deserve that

[USArmyParatrooper]

Because Loghain is a wise and scrupulous leader who sets the example for others to follow, not only in his actions but in the company he keeps. Without Loghain I fear a lying, manipulative tyrant might take over Ferelden.

[wickedgoodreed]

^ The sarcasm is strong with this one.



If you're playing a warden with an idealized sense of honor and duty (à la Wynne's vision of everything a grey warden should be), I could see coming to the conclusion that it's your personal responsibility to kill the archdemon.

[HolyAvenger]

Yes, I can easily RP a good warden who believes in redemption and sparing people doing the ultimate sacrifice and killing the Archdemon themselves.



In fact, this would be the ultimate goody-goody/paladin/paragon of light and virtue choice imo.

[Persephone]

Collider wrote...

Let's say you recruited Loghain, meaning Alistair has left the party and the grey wardens.
You also refuse to do the dark ritual.

When the archdemon is nearly slain, Loghain offers to sacrifice himself for
the good of Ferelden. A patriot to the end. But, are there any reasons
for the warden to sacrifice him or herself instead of Loghain, despite
his crimes and wish for atonement?

You mean another reason except wanting to see his kickass cameo in Awakening? 

But seriously.... I usually grant him his atonement if I haven't done the DR beforehand. "Please I have done so much wrong. Allow me to do one last thing right." It never fails to move me. However, he is still Ferelden's greatest general. The father of its queen. Beloved by most of the people who owe him their freedom. As a Warden he could do much good (And his epilogue slides show that he does) , never mind that he seems to prefer a life away from political power. His dialogue on the roof of Fort Drakon is some of the best in the whole game. And Simon T. delivers it with his usual brilliance.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah wanting him to die in the dark, alone and forgotten.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah wanting him to die in the dark, alone and forgotten.

Forgotten he'll never be. Of that I have no doubt.

[Eber]

If your Warden is depressed, perhaps because Alistair and/or Morrigan abandoned you (as they would have in this scenario), you can commit suicide by Archdemon.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Eber wrote...

If your Warden is depressed, perhaps because Alistair and/or Morrigan abandoned you (as they would have in this scenario), you can commit suicide by Archdemon.

LOL! 

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah wanting him to die in the dark, alone and forgotten.

Forgotten he'll never be. Of that I have no doubt.

Oh yes he will be remembered. For dragging the country to the brink of destruction over his insane paranoia.  

Anyways I just do it to be the ultimate douche. The only thing that would make this more glorious is if you could spare him and send his daughter to the tower. Alas. Marrying her to hardened Alistair will have to do. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 février 2011 - 04:16 .

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah wanting him to die in the dark, alone and forgotten.

Forgotten he'll never be. Of that I have no doubt.

Oh yes he will be remembered. For dragging the country to the brink of destruction over his insane paranoia.  

Anyways I just do it to be the ultimate douche. The only thing that would make this more glorious is if you could spare him and send his daughter to the tower. Alas. Marrying her to hardened Alistair will have to do. 

Well, never mind freeing an entire country in years of horror and finally succeeding at the River Dane. Or saving King Maric.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah wanting him to die in the dark, alone and forgotten.

Forgotten he'll never be. Of that I have no doubt.

Oh yes he will be remembered. For dragging the country to the brink of destruction over his insane paranoia.  

Anyways I just do it to be the ultimate douche. The only thing that would make this more glorious is if you could spare him and send his daughter to the tower. Alas. Marrying her to hardened Alistair will have to do. 

Well, never mind freeing an entire country in years of horror and finally succeeding at the River Dane. Or saving King Maric.

When he nearly destroyed that country utterly a few years later? Saving a now dead king whose only descendant maybe dead or a bastard? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 février 2011 - 04:27 .

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah wanting him to die in the dark, alone and forgotten.

Forgotten he'll never be. Of that I have no doubt.

Oh yes he will be remembered. For dragging the country to the brink of destruction over his insane paranoia.  

Anyways I just do it to be the ultimate douche. The only thing that would make this more glorious is if you could spare him and send his daughter to the tower. Alas. Marrying her to hardened Alistair will have to do. 

Well, never mind freeing an entire country in years of horror and finally succeeding at the River Dane. Or saving King Maric.

When he nearly destroyed that country utterly a few years later? Saving a now dead king whose only descendant maybe dead or a bastard? 

Two sides to every coin, reducing a man's action to such a b/w state makes no sense to me. As for King Maric, I am sure most Fereldans would not think the way you do. But this has been argued to death and I'm sick of it.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah wanting him to die in the dark, alone and forgotten.

Forgotten he'll never be. Of that I have no doubt.

Oh yes he will be remembered. For dragging the country to the brink of destruction over his insane paranoia.  

Anyways I just do it to be the ultimate douche. The only thing that would make this more glorious is if you could spare him and send his daughter to the tower. Alas. Marrying her to hardened Alistair will have to do. 

Well, never mind freeing an entire country in years of horror and finally succeeding at the River Dane. Or saving King Maric.

When he nearly destroyed that country utterly a few years later? Saving a now dead king whose only descendant maybe dead or a bastard? 

Two sides to every coin, reducing a man's action to such a b/w state makes no sense to me. As for King Maric, I am sure most Fereldans would not think the way you do. But this has been argued to death and I'm sick of it.

Never reduced it. He did a pretty good job of that himself.  I'm sure most Fereldans wouldn't hold a dead man over the state of their present country and their citizens.

[HolyAvenger]

Oh goody, I haven't read a rendition of this debate in a while. In fact criticising Loghain in any way, shape or form seems to be a red flag to a bull for certain posters.

[Persephone]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Oh goody, I haven't read a rendition of this debate in a while. In fact criticising Loghain in any way, shape or form seems to be a red flag to a bull for certain posters.

Not so much. I have my own issues with the man. What annoys me is the whole "He's EVUL AND DIEZ IN ULL MA playthrughs!!!" mentality. Or the über sarcastic stuff that has been done to death. It isn't funny anymore. But that's just me. Seems that it's Loghain who keeps the DAO forums from falling into silence except for 1-2 Gush/Character threads. Now that's an irony I can appreciate.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah wanting him to die in the dark, alone and forgotten.

Forgotten he'll never be. Of that I have no doubt.

Oh yes he will be remembered. For dragging the country to the brink of destruction over his insane paranoia.  

Anyways I just do it to be the ultimate douche. The only thing that would make this more glorious is if you could spare him and send his daughter to the tower. Alas. Marrying her to hardened Alistair will have to do. 

Well, never mind freeing an entire country in years of horror and finally succeeding at the River Dane. Or saving King Maric.

When he nearly destroyed that country utterly a few years later? Saving a now dead king whose only descendant maybe dead or a bastard? 

Two sides to every coin, reducing a man's action to such a b/w state makes no sense to me. As for King Maric, I am sure most Fereldans would not think the way you do. But this has been argued to death and I'm sick of it.

Never reduced it. He did a pretty good job of that himself.  I'm sure most Fereldans wouldn't hold a dead man over the state of their present country and their citizens.

Before this drags on and on I'll just say: Agree to disagree. 

[Zjarcal]

Persephone wrote...
Before this drags on and on I'll just say: Agree to disagree. 

A wise decision. 

[HolyAvenger]

Persephone wrote...

Not so much. I have my own issues with the man. What annoys me is the whole "He's EVUL AND DIEZ IN ULL MA playthrughs!!!" mentality. Or the über sarcastic stuff that has been done to death. It isn't funny anymore. But that's just me.

Let it go. Be zen. Its a perfectly valid character interpretation (as is yours).

[Persephone]

Zjarcal wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Before this drags on and on I'll just say: Agree to disagree. 

A wise decision. 

I'm growing up, it seems. :D

Love your avvie, btw!<3

[Zjarcal]

Persephone wrote...
I'm growing up, it seems. :D

Save your energy for the inevtiable DA2 hot issues that will dominate the forums over the next few months. 

Love your avvie, btw!<3

Thanks!