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[Iosev]

DPSSOC wrote...

Well let's look at Jowan as a case study for Blood Magic shall we.  Now from the Origin we find out that Jowan is a mediocre mage at best, not particularly skilled or powerful and perhaps one who won't even be allowed to risk the Harrowing (even before the Blood Magic incident).  Now using Blood Magic Jowan was able to overpower 4 Templars, a Knight Commander, and Senior enchanter with only his own blood to draw on.  With access to a single life Jowan is capable of performing a ritual that normally requires multiple mages (the number 6 is standing out for some reason) and a lot of lyrium.  Now imagine what a more powerful mage could do with 1 life, 10, 100, 1000.

The power divide between a normal mage and blood mage is huge (supposed to be anyway), and that makes them a very real threat.

Blood magic may not be a corrupting influence but keeping mages away from it makes them easier to control.

I agree that blood magic is indeed probably very powerful, but on the same token, Jowan doesn't do anything more than just disable Irving and the templars (everyone gets up seemingly unharmed), and largely because he caught them by surprise.  A primal mage could summon an inferno and most likely incinerate everyone in that room.

In addition, calling Jowan a mediocre mage is an assumption, since the real reason that Jowan wasn't getting put through his Harrowing was because he was learning blood magic (not because he wasn't ready yet).  For all we know, he may be particularly adept at wielding blood magic.

Again, I'm not saying that control is not a part of it, but at the same time, I don't believe that Bioware has revealed everything about blood magic and the Chantry yet.

[DPSSOC]

arcelonious wrote...
I agree that blood magic is indeed probably very powerful, but on the same token, Jowan doesn't do anything more than just disable Irving and the templars (everyone gets up seemingly unharmed), and largely because he caught them by surprise.  A primal mage could summon an inferno and most likely incinerate everyone in that room.

Oh yeah not denying all magic is dangerous but Blood Magic seems to have a rather higher bang for buck.

arcelonious wrote...
In addition, calling Jowan a mediocre mage is an assumption, since the real reason that Jowan wasn't getting put through his Harrowing was because he was learning blood magic (not because he wasn't ready yet).  For all we know, he may be particularly adept at wielding blood magic.

If I'm not mistaken, been awhile since I played a mage, Jowan mentions he started dabbling in blood magic because he hadn't been summoned for his Harrowing.  He thought studying it would make him a better mage and they'd finally have him Harrowed.  Again could be wrong but that's what I remember.

arcelonious wrote...
Again, I'm not saying that control is not a part of it, but at the same time, I don't believe that Bioware has revealed everything about blood magic and the Chantry yet.

You're probably right I was just pointing out given the seemingly disproportionate power/cost ratio when compared to conventional magic, and the fact that in theory the strength of a blood mage has no upper limit (dependent only on how many bodies are handy) you don't need much of an ulterior motive for the Chantry's restriction.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 26 février 2011 - 07:06 .

[LobselVith8]

I don't think there's an ulterior motive. The Chantry simply wishes to keep mages under their control, and blood magic doesn't permit that because it gives them an edge over the templars.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The info from the DA2 site is revealing.
"Nothing inspires as much wild-eyed terror as the Blood Mage. Mages of this type take the raw energy of life and twist it to their own purposes. They can corrupt and control, and sustain their power by consuming the health of others, willing or not. The effects can be vile, but this specialization isn’t limited to madmen and monsters. Many see it as the only form of magic that is truly free, because it’s tied to the physical, not favors to spirits or demons. It remains an undeniably violent and self-destructive discipline, however, and the Blood Mage must be careful. The temptation to take just a little more is always there."
So it seems that blood magic is not tied to demons. The knowledge may come from them, but the magic itself is independent. It also explicitly says that it's inevitably self-destructive, but then one would wonder why it's saying that a blood mage should be careful. I am not going to take this word for word, the way I understood it, it's tempting and if the blood mage is not careful, he will succumb to temptation and self-destruction.
We need to know about the Tevinter magisters and how they delt with blood magic, to see if it's really inevitably self-destructive.

Yes, I am hoping that DA2 can shed more light on this. This description seems somewhat at odds with the origins description, as it says it is learned from demons, which technically, would be a favor.

Also, I was under the impression that mages could perform magic without spirits.

We shall see. But I hope Tevinter and their culture is further explored in DA2, as well as what blood magic is, and how it differs mechanically (lore wise) from normal magic.

[Dean_the_Young]

arcelonious wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Does blood magic literally, physically change you? I doubt it. Does it change your character? Well, it certainly immediately puts you on a slippery slope in the best of cases, irregardless of the fact that the sort of people who would dabble in blood magic in Ferelden are the desperate/power hungry sort who are most likely to abuse it.

Blood magic starts of small and reasonable, but quickly starts justifying much greater wrongs by incrimentalism. At the start, who can complain? It's your blood, after all. But then your blood isn't enough, and other people's blood is necessary to keep on pushing: voluntarily, of course, at first, because you know you would never do it against their will.

But then there comes that point and, well, they trust you to do the right thing, and it's for the best, and they'd probably agree anyway. Then it's necessary, and then a lot of blood is necessary. And then you realize, after some time, that there are a lot of useless fighters and people out there who would be more effective simply giving you more effectiveness than actually fighting on their own. And hey, if we can tax people of their economic life blood against their will, why not their literal life blood? Just a little, of course... until it isn't. Those bloody idiot politicians who are getting in the way of you doing good... why not change their mind for them? Just one little drop...

What started as harmless self-sacrifice, just by little, reasonable steps, can lead to mass bleedings and great abuses. Blood magic is both the means and the slope to one's own destruction.

But it's not just blood magic that can corrupt; essentially all types of power can corrupt an indvidual.  Using your example, what's to stop a mage who specializes in spirit magic to kill people in order to syphon spiritual energy from their corpses or slaughter people in order to animate their skeletons?  What's to stop a mage who specializes in entropy magic to curse his enemies with a death hex?  Both the Spirit and Entropy schools of magic seem to be tolerated by the Chantry, yet both can corrupt people as well.

Power doesn't even have to come from magic.  A teyrn can wield tremendous politic power; he may abuse that and do things like leave kings and armies to die, order mages to poison political enemies, or sell elves as slaves (such as Teyrn Loghain).

That's the problem with the slippery slope argument.  All types of power can potentially corrupt; but not every individual succumbs to it.  The Chantry seemingly wants people to believe that blood magic by its very nature corrupts which I admit could be true, but I personally think that there is more to blood magic than what the Chantry has revealed.

All power slopes are slippery, but some a far more slippery and steeper than others. Blood magic is far more potent, and far easier, than equivalent powers of other types. Relative proportions are always relevent: it's one thing for Americans to have a rifle, but it's quite another if they try and have a tank, or a nuke.

The Chantry 'tolerates' the other schools of magic in the sense that the people who practice them are constantly watched, every day for their entire life, by soldiers trained to be especially effective in killing them. For branches of magic far less potent, and far harder to abuse, than blood magic.

Simply because other types of dangers exist elsewhere doesn't mitigate the concerns here. If, say, a nature mage goes rogue, it's a disaster. When a blood mage goes rogue, it's a catastrophe in the making.