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Evil Playthrough Possible without Mages?


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#1
LordPaul256

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Hey all,

Just finished my latest playthrough in anticipation of DA2, and I decided I have enough time to at least my opposite playthrough.  My original (mage) and latest (warrior) were basically all the good choices except for choosing Prince Bhelen, so I need to play as a female Dwarven Noble rogue this time.  Rogue because I haven't done a rogue playthrough yet, and Dwarven Noble so I can roleplay chosing Harrowmont despite being completely evil.

The problem is that I'm going to lose Wynne by desecrating the urn of sacred ashes, and I'm going to lose Morrigan by asking Loghain to make the ultimate sacrifice.  So, for that last fews battles of the game, I'm going to have no mages.  Oh, and have I mentioned I'm going to make this my first Nightmare playthrough?  Yeah, it's going to be hard.  
:unsure:

Is there anyway to get Wynne or Morrigan to stick around, or any good mage NPC mods? 

#2
rayvioletta

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don't take Wynne with you to Haven and never talk to her about the Ashes? haven't tried it but on similar things with other characters (ie: Leliana and the Ashes, Shale and Carridan) there's been a persuade option to tell them that nothing bad happened

edit: although if you're doing real evil you'll kill Wynne in the Mage Tower when you chose to kill all the mages there

Modifié par rayvioletta, 21 février 2011 - 04:09 .


#3
Stahlbart

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I think Wynne will talk about that, so you have no choice. I'm not sure if destroying the ashes prior to getting to the tower would solve this issue. Morrigan leaves just before the final battle, so thats the only quest you have to do without a mage. It's possible with the right tactics even on nightmare mode (did it once).

#4
SuicidalBaby

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ritual w/ jowen early, denerim convo with Genitivi's assitant to trigger the spoiled princess fight, Haven should unlock at this point.

might i suggest a cunning build to win over Leliana and soothe Alister -40 if you fail the persuede check after the ritual.

#5
LordPaul256

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Are you saying to complete the Urn of Ashes before going to the Mage Tower? If that let's me keep Wynne... hmmm, that could work. If someone could confirm that, that would be great.

#6
HolyAvenger

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You don't need a mage if one of your characters can make health poultices.

#7
Ferretinabun

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Yes, it works. If you desecrate the Ashes with Wynne in your party, she will attack you; if you have recruited her but leave her back at camp, she will confront you when you return and leave (no way to lie to get her to stay), but if you recruit her AFTER you have desecrated the Ashes, she will not confront you.

EXCEPT...

Some people report a bug.

Long version: It's all about the game's flagging system. When you desecrate the Ashes, a 'Wynne Camp Confrontation' flag gets triggered. So when you return to camp and you have her there, she will confront you. If you don't have her, the flag is reset. It is therefore possible to desecrate the Ashes, go to the Tower and recruit her WITHOUT VISITING CAMP IN BETWEEN, and THEN when you next visit camp, she will indeed confront you. So you have to reset the flag between the ashes and the tower by visiting camp.

Short version: Make sure you visit camp between desecrating the ashes and recruiting Wynne!



Although, rayvioletta has a point - wouldn't an 'evil' playthrough involve cleansing the circle and killing Wynne there anyway?

#8
Last Darkness

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LordPaul256 wrote...

Hey all,

Just finished my latest playthrough in anticipation of DA2, and I decided I have enough time to at least my opposite playthrough.  My original (mage) and latest (warrior) were basically all the good choices except for choosing Prince Bhelen, so I need to play as a female Dwarven Noble rogue this time.  Rogue because I haven't done a rogue playthrough yet, and Dwarven Noble so I can roleplay chosing Harrowmont despite being completely evil.

The problem is that I'm going to lose Wynne by desecrating the urn of sacred ashes, and I'm going to lose Morrigan by asking Loghain to make the ultimate sacrifice.  So, for that last fews battles of the game, I'm going to have no mages.  Oh, and have I mentioned I'm going to make this my first Nightmare playthrough?  Yeah, it's going to be hard.  
:unsure:

Is there anyway to get Wynne or Morrigan to stick around, or any good mage NPC mods? 


You do know that Prince Bhelen and Anvil destroyed is the good choice right?  Harrowmont and Anvil intact is the evil choice. Harrowmont and Bhelen are diferant people if your the dwarf commoner instead of the noble....
Bhelen is Ruthless, Harrowmont is a Tyrant. Both are manipulating, scoundrels. Honestly if your a Dwarf Noble and you choose Harrowmont your showing how much personal bias your are having instead of thinking about whats best for the kingdom and your people. A very evil selfish act in book.  Alot of the "good choices" are very selfish and screw over everyone else and some even cause the most harm and damage in Dragonage.  Its not Black and White.

Also I dont see the problem?  Theres plenty of builds around here for Nightmare solo runs with every class. How can lacking mages later on be a issue?    You can easily beat Origins with a poor build on nightmare. Your thinking to much into this. (Theres a naked mage solo nightmare run......even)

#9
SuicidalBaby

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actually you dont even need red cliff to unlock haven. Weylon serves it up after Lothering. just need persuade to skip docks fight.

#10
LordPaul256

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Last Darkness wrote...

You do know that Prince Bhelen and Anvil destroyed is the good choice right?  Harrowmont and Anvil intact is the evil choice. Harrowmont and Bhelen are diferant people if your the dwarf commoner instead of the noble....
Bhelen is Ruthless, Harrowmont is a Tyrant. Both are manipulating, scoundrels. Honestly if your a Dwarf Noble and you choose Harrowmont your showing how much personal bias your are having instead of thinking about whats best for the kingdom and your people. A very evil selfish act in book.  Alot of the "good choices" are very selfish and screw over everyone else and some even cause the most harm and damage in Dragonage.  Its not Black and White.

Also I dont see the problem?  Theres plenty of builds around here for Nightmare solo runs with every class. How can lacking mages later on be a issue?    You can easily beat Origins with a poor build on nightmare. Your thinking to much into this. (Theres a naked mage solo nightmare run......even)


Debatable.

Bhelen is obviously the right choice from the Dwarf Commoner origin.  Harrowmont is the obvious right choice from the Dwarf Noble origin.  For all other origins, the game gently pushes you towards pushing Harrowmont by having Bhelen's fighter brutally murder someone when you enter Orzammar, and the first Dwarf you talk to tells you how horrible Bhelen is.  Even Bhelen's missions are 'dirtier' than Harrowomont's.

Now, I chose Bhelen.  Why?

Because both you and I know through meta-game knowledge that Orzammar ends up "better" with Bhelen in charge.  So for my somewhat good core playthrough, I chose Bhelen.  It took some roleplaying, but I managed to mesh it with my character idea.

No one mentioned the Anvil, but... y'know, thanks for reminding everyone.

And, honestly, if I'm an evil Dwarf Noble, why wouldn't I choose Harrowmont?  We (the players) know he's the lesser choice, but our characters don't.  That, and she's evil.  Plus, her brother Bhelen framed her for murder and kicked her out of her homeland, removing her caste.  Oh, and through meta-game knowledge we know Harrowmont dies if we chose him, then we become Queen of Orzammar.  The only roleplying reason I can see for her to pick Bhelen is mental insanity.  That's hard to roleplay.

As for the solo Nightmare runs... good for them.  There are people who can beat Super Mario 3 in under 10 minutes.  Someone recently just beat Fallout: New Vegas without killing anyone or anything.  These are extremely difficult and not always fun methods of playing these games.  They also take a lot of time to get perfect, and a lot of pre-planning.  They're great if you want to show how hardcore you are.  I'm not one of those people.  I play for fun.  Fun, for me, is having a mage in my party for crowd control, especially at Nightmare.

Though, if you feel like YouTubing a Nightmare run solo, I would definitely watch it.  No sarcasm.  Actually, if anyone has links to someone doing that, let me know.  I'd be much more fun to watch than to try myself.  

#11
LordPaul256

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Ferretinabun wrote...

Although, rayvioletta has a point - wouldn't an 'evil' playthrough involve cleansing the circle and killing Wynne there anyway?


Ah, thanks for the info.

As for why I wouldn't kill Wynne - well, I don't believe there is only one type of 'evil,' just like everyone understands there isn't just one type of 'good.'  Some people play good characters who are paragons of virtue, other as strict statist and super law abiding (kinda hard in DA:O), and others as dashing rogues stealing from the rich to help the poor.  So why not the same for evil?  Evil doesn't have to mean the Joker or Hannibal Lector.  

Remeber Sophia Dryden from Warden's Keep?  She used the Wardens to form a personal army to help fight a king who stole the crown from her.  She used every means at her disposal, was absolutely ruthless, but she wasn't going around putting babies on spikes.  Someone like that, and the character I plan to roleplay, would see a use for Wynne, as long as she stayed in line and was easily manipulated.  Same for Leliana.  It might be more 'evil' to just fight her after the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest, but another type of evil would lie to her to get her to stay and help fight the enemy, be it Darkspawn or Prince Bhelen. 

#12
LordPaul256

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Double Post.  <_<

Modifié par LordPaul256, 22 février 2011 - 10:30 .