77 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic_Warlock]

Shockwave is killed in insane/hardcore... thanks to every living enemy with a protection of some sort.

Arc projects against a group of husks close together works a charm.
Strips all the armour...
shockwave then to kill them all in one.

If you are a vanguard, inferno ammo may help... if the combustion radius works.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 22 février 2011 - 11:45 .

[termokanden]

So you're saying it's not good on insanity? Did you watch the video?



But then it looks like you're saying it's useful. I'm a bit confused.



In any case I'm now considering retraining powers for my adept to finally try out Shockwave, probably the only ability in the game I've never really given a proper chance.

[implodinggoat]

horangi88 wrote...

Don't mind to the haters, nice job on the video. I just tried a DCS platforms run using your shockwave build with the 51st point in stasis. Fun and super smooth. This shockwave build and the cryoguard build are nice changes of pace and add some versatility to the one-trick pony. Hats off to both of you for your creativity.

Well I wasn't really trying to hate on his idea; but you do make a good point.  It is a creative build and I do like seeing people come up with different ways to play the game.

None the less I do think Shockwave needs some tweaks for ME3 because you really shouldn't have to be this creative in order to find a practical use for a power.

Good job on finding a way to use Shockwave on Insanity though, now if you can do the same for Shredder Ammo, I'll be really impressed.

[Biotic_Warlock]

What im saying is that shockave, throw, pull, singularity and concussive shot and other force powers are only effective against opponents once their defences are stripped.

Which isnt very easy to do for me =(

[termokanden]

Actually Singularity also works through defenses to a degree. Even enemies with defenses have to either escape the radius of effect or keep fighting it, although they won't get thrown into the air.

[implodinggoat]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

What im saying is that shockave, throw, pull, singularity and concussive shot and other force powers are only effective against opponents once their defences are stripped.
Which isnt very easy to do for me =(

The trick is to use those powers in combination with a defense stripping ability like warp, reave, incinerate, overload or energy drain.

Have you or one of your allies take the defenses down with the first power and then follow it up by having someone else on the squad hit them with the crowd control ability.  Also if you use pull or singularity to leave an enemy hanging in the air defenseless you can always follow up with another hit from something like throw, concussive shot or shockwave to send them into orbit or even better hit them with warp and watch them explode.

You can use your guns to strip defenses too; but doing it with powers makes it easier to catch multiple enemies when you follow up with a crowd control power.

[swn32]

I spam shockwaves when I bring jack along. Spending my points on shockwave however is something I will never do

Modifié par swn32, 22 février 2011 - 01:13 .

[horangi88]

I just tried a "Jack" Adept build:



Area Shockwave

Area Pull

Heavy Singularity

Squad Warp Ammo



I brought Thane And Miranda for warp bombs and it worked really well on the Xbox. Only two active powers for Shepard so no pausing, just a lot of shotgun blasting and a lot of flying bodies. It plays like a ME1 Vanguard, if anyone is looking for a different spin on the Adept.

[Ahglock]

implodinggoat wrote...

Honestly if you focus yourself on creating a build, squad makeup and set of tactics entirely to make a single power viable then you can get impressive results from pretty much any ability in the game.

Shockwave is just a broken power.  Overpowered on anything under hardcore and crap on hardcore or insanity.

Yeah, this sums it up fo rme fairly well.  You can make almost any power good with the right squad and tactics, but if you have to do that to make it good it probably needs some work.  and yeah the issue with shockwave is it is awesome on difficulties below veteran and kind of weak on hardcore and insanity.  I am not sure what it should do in ME3, but for a 6 second cooldown I think it needs something for the higher difficulties.  But if I need 2 defense strippers so I can make it worth while and still be a bit weaker than area pull thanks in large part to its cooldown it needs a boost that only effects the harder difficulties. 

My initial thoughts were for a large defense stripping boost, I am not sure which defense though.  The rapid fire nature of the shockwave makes it kind of seem good vs shields or barrier, but giving shield take down power to an adept might be too much.  But outside of a warp explosion it would be the only area of effect shield stripping power they got so it might work.

[Bozorgmehr]

Yeah, Shockwave isn't useless, but it ain't very useful either. Its casting animation takes too long, cooldown is too long, aiming is difficult and unreliable, effect is minor - enemies who got hit are standing (and shooting) within a couple of seconds (well before you can use Shockwave or another power again), damage is neglectable etc. There is almost always a faster, more reliable and more effective way to deal with enemies.

I've tried to incorporate Shockwave into my Adept playstyle but I couldn't find a way to use it effectively. I tried it in combination with Mordin's Cryo Blast in an attempt to use Shockwave to shatter frozen enemies. It does work occasionally but most of the time you'll end up surrounded by enemies. Shockwave isn't powerful enough to sent enemies into the storm on top of the Shadow Broker vessel (would be cool if it worked). Even levels like Dantius Tower's bridge and the Collector platforms do not guarantee successful insta-kills (Pull, Throw and Slam do and are on half the cooldown).

Nevertheless a very cool video though I missed combos - Shockwave is much more effective when used on already ragdolled enemies. But half the time Shockwave doesn't hit ragdolled targets coz its impact radius is too small (Pulled enemies or those caught by Singularity are not lying on the ground - and just a couple of feet into the air will make Shockwave's effect useless).

But you got me interested Thisisme, I'll give Shockwave another go

[thisisme8]

@Bozorgmehr

Are you sure about that? I was launching them into the storm above the ship constantly... Will double check, but I'm pretty sure you can.



Also, completely avoid ferezing enemies to use in conjunction with Shockwave as it's gliched and won't affect them. Lame, I know. Throw glitches like that occasionally, but it's almost 100% of the time with Shockwave - though Shockwave will shatter frozen husks, which makes Squad Cryo ammo with Mordin and Samara a ridiculously strong team for the Reaper IFF and part 2 of the Suicide mission.

[Stabby McGoodstab]

I was very impressed at 2:10 of the video. That's usually one of the hardest parts of that stretch of the mission for my Sentinels and Engineers. You managed to knock almost all the enemies down with a single Shockwave, giving you a good opening.



Time for an Adept playthrough I think.

[kombra]

thisisme8 wrote...
[...] though Shockwave will shatter frozen husks, which makes Squad Cryo ammo with Mordin and Samara a ridiculously strong team for the Reaper IFF and part 2 of the Suicide mission.

They shatter when frozen solid anyway (no need for you to do anything).

[thisisme8]

kombra wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...
[...] though Shockwave will shatter frozen husks, which makes Squad Cryo ammo with Mordin and Samara a ridiculously strong team for the Reaper IFF and part 2 of the Suicide mission.

They shatter when frozen solid anyway (no need for you to do anything).

Quiet you!

[JimL68]

@thisisme8, I noticed you had Thane and Samara with you. Which versions of Warp and Reave did you use, the heavy or area versions?

[thisisme8]

Heavy Warp, Area Reave.

[Sailears]

implodinggoat wrote...

Honestly if you focus yourself on creating a build, squad makeup and set of tactics entirely to make a single power viable then you can get impressive results from pretty much any ability in the game.
*snip*

This, in a nutshell.
The game is such that you can pretty much do what you like, though the tactics vary in difficulty

horangi88 wrote...

I just tried a "Jack" Adept build:

Area Shockwave
Area Pull
Heavy Singularity
Squad Warp Ammo

I
brought Thane And Miranda for warp bombs and it worked really well on
the Xbox. Only two active powers for Shepard so no pausing, just a lot
of shotgun blasting and a lot of flying bodies. It plays like a ME1
Vanguard, if anyone is looking for a different spin on the
Adept.

Will give it a go. I just realised my dislike for shockwave is actually not all that fair - I was playing adept without singularity or warp at the time (points spent of course, but little/no usage), so shockwave took the brunt of my frustration.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

thisisme8 wrote...

@Bozorgmehr
Are you sure about that? I was launching them into the storm above the ship constantly... Will double check, but I'm pretty sure you can.

I think Pull will do that as well, and you can set up warp bombs with it. 

[thisisme8]

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

I think Pull will do that as well, and you can set up warp bombs with it. 

Hmmm....  <_<

[Omega-202]

Shockwave can launch them into the "kill zone" height above the ship (using Wide Shockwave or w/e). I've had it happen at least once when I was goofing around on Veteran, but you have to hit them with the right part of a "pulse" which is basically just luck. They have to be hit square on at essentially the center of a pulse to be launched directly up. Getting that to happen is not likely unless you just keep spamming it and you're more likely to "kill zone" them with something like Pull or have them simply get launched horizontally off the ship or killed by the impact or squadmates when they're rag dolled.

To the general topic at hand: nothing more needs to be said other than "broken/absurdly powerful on Veteran and lower, broken/nearly useless on Hardcore and higher". No other power can end entire encounters with one cast in one scenario and in another be completely ineffective. I mean the entire Abandoned Mine N7 full of husks becomes a god mode joke with Shockwave on Veteran but its completely outclassed on the higher difficulties.

[NICKjnp]

Area Reave + Improved/Heavy Shockwave is great. Just ignore cryo ammo (I know...I'm speaking blasphemy). Inferno Ammo, Heavy Charge, Champion, and 1 point in pull are still there.

[JaegerBane]

Omega-202 wrote...

To the general topic at hand: nothing more needs to be said other than "broken/absurdly powerful on Veteran and lower, broken/nearly useless on Hardcore and higher". No other power can end entire encounters with one cast in one scenario and in another be completely ineffective. I mean the entire Abandoned Mine N7 full of husks becomes a god mode joke with Shockwave on Veteran but its completely outclassed on the higher difficulties.

That hits the nail on the head. It's the one power in the game that has a mid-level cooldown but totally depends on physics effects. Every other ability with such a cooldown is either a defence-stripper or is indifferent to defences (either by virtue of being a self-augmentative or ignoring defences like Stasis). Hence it's obviously going to realy difficult to balance as physics effects tend to be all or nothing.

Still, I think Shockwave fits well into Normal/Veteran difficulty as it pulls its weight. It may be a little OP on such difficulties, but if we're going in that direction there are powers that are in far more need of balancing than this...

[termokanden]

I've been playing around with Shockwave for an adept. There I'd really rather skip it and just use Pull Field instead. Lower cooldown so you can quickly Warp bomb. Pull Field also has half the cooldown and pulls enemies up over cover instead of knocking them down behind it.



It's also easier to fit into a build because you can always get Pull, but to get Shockwave you'd need 3 points in Pull. This means you either max Pull as well, or you can't max something else. But having both Pull and Shockwave maxed seems a bit redundant.



So for adepts, Shockwave is both stuck next to an awesome CC power with half the cooldown, and it's more difficult to fit into a build without wasting points.

[Ahglock]

termokanden wrote...

I've been playing around with Shockwave for an adept. There I'd really rather skip it and just use Pull Field instead. Lower cooldown so you can quickly Warp bomb. Pull Field also has half the cooldown and pulls enemies up over cover instead of knocking them down behind it.

It's also easier to fit into a build because you can always get Pull, but to get Shockwave you'd need 3 points in Pull. This means you either max Pull as well, or you can't max something else. But having both Pull and Shockwave maxed seems a bit redundant.

So for adepts, Shockwave is both stuck next to an awesome CC power with half the cooldown, and it's more difficult to fit into a build without wasting points.

I've actually maxed shockwave on most of my vanguards.  I don't use it often since I usually am charging and then need to charge again to survive but I use it now and then.  I just skipped squad cryo.  It is a good power, but how I fight squad cryo almost never comes into effect.  Also I generally prefer the feel of active powers that I use for a situation over a passive power that I turn on and it works in the background. 

[termokanden]

For vanguards it makes more sense I guess. I don't really think it does for adepts, and that was my point.