334 réponses à ce sujet

[Shallina]

BG1 and BG2 still have some sort of scaling for when you completly out level an encounter.

Modifié par Shallina, 28 février 2011 - 07:17 .

[Arkalezth]

Agreed with Kamal, put an EL range at each dungeon. If there's gonna be wandering monsters, they should grant XP. If not, disable wandering monsters. Misery Stone had an OM without monsters.

And yes, Mokah, it sounded dirty.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 28 février 2011 - 07:22 .

[The Fred]

Shallina wrote...
BG1 and BG2 still have some sort of scaling for when you completly out level an encounter.

Actually, BG1 never did... I don't know about BG2, though.

Encounters needn't give massive extra amounts of XP, but monster-killing XP should, IMO, remain. I'd also disagree with full scaling, though partial scaling (e.g. just scaling final bosses or adding a couple of extra guys if you reach a breakpoint etc) I'm all for, on a case-by-case basis (for example, there are three quests of roughly the same difficulty. After you complete two of them, the third becomes harder, perhaps because the bad guys get better guards, unrelated assassins try and kill you halfway through, etc).

[Hellfire_RWS]

Arkalezth wrote...
 Misery Stone had an OM without monsters.

yes it did, and as much as I loved MS, the OM felt empty and .. well useless.  It was beautiful to look at but really served no purpose other than making you walk.

Maybe a very low XP for OM mosnters and no encounter completion bonus. Maybe something completely different for a reward.  It doesnt always have to be XP.     Other rewards could be legens, lore, or useful items like crafitng materials or heal packs or something.

[Arkalezth]

I agree that it could feel a bit useless, but better that way than random fights without reward.

I was going to suggest a different reward too, but I got short on ideas of what it could be. Crafting materials are ok, but only if the drop rate is high. I don't want to fight 5 times to get 2 or 3 items.

However, that depends on what's available in shops. Maybe keep the monster XP, and add a little reward, but no XP at the end of the encounter.

Another idea: Sometimes, as a reward, you could find maps pointing out new locations on the OM. Of course, this would only make sense in encounters with humans and the like, I don't envision a bunch of dire boars reading a map...
It's not a lot, but it's something.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 28 février 2011 - 09:30 .

[Arkalezth]

Damn, you posted while I was editing my previous post. Did you read the maps suggestion (if it's possible to implement such a system)?

[Shallina]

I'll submit the idea for the mob I'll do for the community campaign on the dedicated site for it Spoiling is nevers good.

[dunniteowl]

OKay, so those who are now able to post on the Projects page, it's time to get busy there and organize the setup.

dno

[Shallina]

The project page exit ? What is its Url ?

[Arkalezth]

Suggestions and the like from non-builders should be posted here or is there a section for it in the project page?

[nicethugbert]

dunniteowl wrote...

I am NOT a fan of scaled encounters. I think it really defeats the whole purpose. With simple Level Estimations on the entries to each area then Let the Player Beware! And if they feel like walking into a level 3-4 dungeon at level 14, then let them experience the Power! of being Uber Invincible to a bunch of meager little whatevers for whatever that's worth to them. By then, the items and treasure will seem a pittance to them and the satisfaction may or may not be in taking them down without breaking a sweat.

So count me in as a NO on scaled encounter scripts.

Wandering Monsters in the OM. Give XP? Sure, that could work, just make it lower end. I found, in WPM that after a while I was avoiding them not because I couldn't complete the battle (I don't care for that whole grinding thing unless it's my coffee beans) but because they were becoming an intrusive annoyance -- to me.

Eguintir, I understand your point, but I think the wandering encounters should be as close to stock (or WPM) as possible.

Some folks are going to grind away. No matter what you do, they'll find a method. Others, such as myself, might feel inclined to wander the map in an area and hope I can fight a few wandering encounters so I can adventure in the module area that is rated too high for my party or has proven to be beyond my ability. And of course, in WPM, that was a mixed bag. There were times when the random encounters jacked me up so badly I was forced to limp back to the camp (hoping I could make it) and rest up, heal and re-outfit.

There are way too many playing styles to attempt to cater for and I think keeping this simple does really provide the players with the options they are most familiar with. I limit my encounters during play by avoidance. If I can't seem to do that, then I consider, "What am I missing here?" There are times when I am looking for a fight, as long as I can handle it, because I need just a little bit more experience to level and I need to level my party before I can hit that next area.

Let the player choose how they deal with it and let's focus on making the modules in a cooperative manner without niggling over all these little details. It allows us to focus on the modules themselves, I think. In your areas, you could opt to do whatever you think is best within the overall guidelines, but the real issue becomes one of commonality of design. If we throw TOO MANY different methods and techniques (mechanics-wise) at the players, I think that will go a lot further to disenchantment than using an overall simplified, though possibly tweaked, standard SoZ encounter and OM wandering monster system.

We can discuss this in more detail in the Project page.

Oh, as to that, the project is here in the BSN and you should be getting a Friend Request and an Invite to that. Or you can do like me and view CWs profile page, click the link and Join, then await Approval, because CW wasn't fast enough for you.

dunniteowl

+1

I'm not dead set against scaled encounters but DNO makes a good point about higher levels choosing to fight lower levels and other freedoms

Modifié par nicethugbert, 28 février 2011 - 10:40 .

[dunniteowl]

Shallina,

I know, I post walls of text and it's easy to miss (or just overload) so here it is again:

We can discuss this in more detail in the Project page.

Oh, as to that, the project is here in the BSN and you should be getting a Friend Request and an Invite to that. Or you can do like me and view CWs profile page, click the link and Join, then await Approval, because CW wasn't fast enough for you.

dno

[dunniteowl]

Sorry folks, those not directly involved in the project should continue to post ideas, suggestions and what not here. This thread may end up being superceded by another that keeps you updated and informed, but I don't know if that will be the case yet, so for now, just use this Thread to express whatever.

dunniteowl

[The Fred]

Chaos Wielder wrote...
They're going to end up with XP, but the exact system will be ironed out later. I like the idea of just reducing total XP. This will provide an incentive to do things other than just farm Dire Wolves. Like I said, also, there will be custom encounters which will be like closely designed encounters rather than "generic" battles.

Custom encounters sound good. It would be nice, for example, if there were whole quests which could only be completed or even begun via a random encounter on the OM. Well, not "nice" maybe, but interesting.

[nicethugbert]

How about using KevL's Personal Impossibility Adjustment with added npc scaling?

[kevL]

it could work, but the PIA is really for pre-existing modules that players find simply not challenging enough

In a work from scratch such as the Battle for Mr.T here, there's no need for it; if players find it too easy for them on release, they can insert the Pia later, Nice.


but, like anything, it's adaptable

[nicethugbert]

Yes, but if the PIA were integrated and augmented then all sorts of things like a gui, NPC scaling, respawning. and rest restrictions could be done.

Then players could replay their favorite parts with different settings. I'd add The Fred's XP Slider too so that there isn't a gui conflict.

[kevL]

i See yer point, Ntb
& I've grown to see the Pia as an extension of the Difficulty slider (in Options), 'twould be nice to have an integrated Gui .. but

I've been reading the thread and watching where they tend to draw the proverbial line. The things you mention *are* nice, but they are also 'add-ons' and my guess is the modders and Chaos already have their plates full; it's more important that (how long they have to do this?) some standardized .2da's and a good solid mod. result

( my fantasy is to see the Pia options right under Fred's XP Slider


Lance, oh Lance, where art thou .. hehe

[The Fred]

I was actually thinking of making some sort of UI-based difficulty adjuster. This would allow basically anything the PIA or other systems could do (since it'd just be an interface for such a system) but not for some of those integrated things. Possibly we could just leave hooks in the scripts and things, though (e.g. run stuff off mod variables which can be set through the OnLoad or whatever script the first time and then a later interface could allow dynamic modification of them).

[Eguintir Eligard]

Again I have to say, I dont want my encounters being scaled. I plan my encounters as they are. I put in custom scripts for wizards so they are actually a challenge; they will cast their stone skin instantly, then a mirror image etc, then go on to offensive spells. If they get "scaled up" and rest to package (which is the o nly way you can level up via scripts) they no longer have stoneskin or mirror image and are now a joke to kill.

This would be a very intrusive addition for me personally, and just going on the basis that people wanted to not use the non-game altering UI I mentioned, I would think this one is also a no no. I like to be indifferent wherever possible, but this directly screws up everything I try to do in encounters.

[kevL]

thank you, Chaos

[nicethugbert]

I don't think that selectable rest rules and scaled encounters are something you can make as an override, at least to an extent. I think it's something that would require setting up by the modder especially if you want to the best system.

Isn't scaled encounters a module issue, not a campaign issue?

Modifié par nicethugbert, 01 mars 2011 - 08:48 .