46 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Phoenix]

NWN...I brought the deluxe version for £1 on Amazon, it was  £0.01 + £0.99 postage and packaging. At first, I thought it was average at best but after getting into the game, I've come to see how amazing it is. Not only did I enjoy the main campaign but I also enjoyed all the customization you could do and I enjoyed the easy to use toolset with which you can create almost anything with.

Bioware should have made NWN2 and then NWN3. This MMO just sounds a fail already what with it ditching classes.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Unfortunately, this is a horse that has been dead for over 3 years. Atari shot the horse back then, just prior to NWN2 release. Bioware had no interest in dealing with Atari for NWN2, since Atari consistently fails to pay their bills on time, if at all. Obsidian made a fair attempt at NWN2, but refused to deliver on MP capability which is what has kept NWN1 alive even after all these years, that and the amazing ability to create custom content for it. NWN2 failed in that aspect as their toolset was/is garbage, and you have no easy way to build areas with it. The limitations given to it by upgrading to the new graphic format, actually killed the mod community at well.



Witcher went in another direction, and failed to deliver a game that folks would be interested in re-playing since you have no option on your character, you play Geralt or nothing at all.



Both NWN2 and Witcher changed the original Aurora Engine, expanding it's capabilities, but severely limiting the ability of the average person being able to create content for them.



Any future NWN, whether it be NWN3, or NWNMMO will have no relationship with NWN1 other than name. They will be required to switch to the latest D&D Ruleset from Wizards of the Coast, while at the same time not competing with anything that WotC is creating on their own. Believe me, those guys have a SINGLE vision, and if your own ideas differ from that, they squash it completely. The license terms prevent a potential developer from any variation from WotC ideas as well. Oh, you can create a story line inside their worldscape, but you can't change the worldscape.



WotC is why No Dragon Lance adventures will be released, why Planescape ideas won't reach fruition in pro developed games as well.



The financial success of World of Warcraft, has all developers thinking that is the only way to go now as well. Which prevents folks from creating their OWN worlds, they must fit into the ideas of the developer.



No one wants to give tools to gamers really, Bioware proved how successful that can be, and their premium mods proved that the success can be continued and expanded upon. However, Bioware no longer has that sort of control, they were swallowed whole by Electronic Arts, and quickly reduced in staffing.



Now add all the different game platforms, which completely prevent Custom Content, and you see where things not only are headed, but have actually reached.



I know I purchased NWN when I saw it displayed on a Television show that explained/showed how easy it was to create your OWN world. That toolset was what sold me on the game. Once I got involved, I also liked the three OC's, but gained most of my pleasure from the community created stuff.



The COMMUNITY, as in US, is what has kept NWN alive. They (the powers that be) finallly recognized that there was still a market for such an old game, which is why it is available now on several direct to hd sites. Cheap sale, nearly pure profit, and no expectation from ANYONE of ever having to patch anything again, so no real support costs.



All of that said, explains why I keep on developing new stuff for such an old game. There is no other game out there that gives me the power to accomplish what can be accomplished here with NWN1.



We are a small community now, growing a bit, but only a bit.with the folks downloading the game. What we really need as Superfly mentioned, is a new trailer to help attract folks. Not something I have the tools to do though, and likely not something I would do very well anyway. Maybe someone will take up his challenge though, and create something worth sharing.



Be well, and continue playing NWN1!

[Eternal Phoenix]

Well I suppose the good news is that NWN1 well probably keep going for years still. The fact people still play it and make mods for it shows how much of a great classic it truly is.

[SuperFly_2000]

Personally I am very much waiting for this next Neverwinter from Cryptic.

I am totally disinterested in single player games and Bioware has been full of it the last 9 years...well...since the release of NWN1 they didn't release a single multiplayer game (bear in mind that SW:ToR has not been released yet and that it is not even a fantasy/D&D game).

So...what I am saying is...there has been a single player frenzy without equality and also more mainstream and dumbed down or childish productions not only from Bioware but any other fairly big company as well.

There is a lot of frustration built up for us that play multiplayer and that is why we still stick to this 9 years old game. No one will take away the pleasure from us, or at least the hope, when finally something is made with multiplayer in the frontseat.

I don't want NWN3. I don't want yet another game that focuses on the single player campaign to sell copies. I don't want yet another toolset where I have to duct tape EVERYTHING so that it is even persistent. I don't want to wait for years so that perhaps some amateurs produce some extra content that is needed. The upcoming Neverwinter game could be the future in NWN gaming for me....at least more than an NWN3 would be....only it should have been produced years ago, by Bioware.

Whatever the upcoming Neverwinter game will be it will at least be a no BS multiplayer game and it has to get some credit for that.

I think of the upcoming Neverwinter game as a persistent world where the server is being hosted by a professional company. The "custom" content is being made by the same company on a regular basis. The builders and DM's consist of both people from that company AND the players themselves.

I can see no better way to go and to me it sounds beautiful. This could be the "PW" I have been looking for. Only fear is that it will all fail on implementation because of the main market and direction of the production...but hope with me....hope for a miracle!

Sure...perhaps freedom will be inhibited. I mean...you won't be able to build WHATEVER you like....because the world has to "stick together right". I can live with that....if I at the same time have a huge world...populated by lots of players who want to tag-team monsters and then brag about it in the local tavern....

I don't need all kinds of weird PW's where the only point seems to be getting away from the Forgotten Realms, D&D and even fantasy altogether. I don't need that. I just need a proper FR, D&D NWN PW and Cryptic might just be about to give it to me...so please....

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 22 février 2011 - 12:52 .

[SHOVA]

I am going to take a look at the box in the store when it comes out, but thats about it. A mmo, probably means, and I am sure some might take offence, a dumbed down game so everyone can be a hero, or some other such nonsence. I do not want NWN to become another World of Warcraft, but sadly since WoW is the best at what it does, That appears as whats going on. Good luck to them, I'll still be here after it comes out. I can not give up the toolset of NWN just because some new sparkly thing is available. NWN still has enough sparklies for me.



I have also learned from past experience, There are games, and then there are Bio-Ware games. Since Bio isn't involved, neither am I.

[SuperFly_2000]

SHOVA wrote...
 A mmo, probably means, and I am sure some might take offence, a dumbed down game so everyone can be a hero, or some other such nonsence.

Ahh...you mean like all the single player games? It is exactly like that is it not? To top it over theese games are even developed for console.....so trust me....it is not just MMO's....it is a lot more widespread in the industry...

[Eternal Phoenix]

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Personally I am very much waiting for this next Neverwinter from Cryptic.

I am totally disinterested in single player games and Bioware has been full of it the last 9 years...well...since the release of NWN1 they didn't release a single multiplayer game (bear in mind that SW:ToR has not been released yet and that it is not even a fantasy/D&D game).

So...what I am saying is...there has been a single player frenzy without equality and also more mainstream and dumbed down or childish productions not only from Bioware but any other fairly big company as well.

There is a lot of frustration built up for us that play multiplayer and that is why we still stick to this 9 years old game. No one will take away the pleasure from us, or at least the hope, when finally something is made with multiplayer in the frontseat.

I don't want NWN3. I don't want yet another game that focuses on the single player campaign to sell copies. I don't want yet another toolset where I have to duct tape EVERYTHING so that it is even persistent. I don't want to wait for years so that perhaps some amateurs produce some extra content that is needed. The upcoming Neverwinter game could be the future in NWN gaming for me....at least more than an NWN3 would be....only it should have been produced years ago, by Bioware.

Whatever the upcoming Neverwinter game will be it will at least be a no BS multiplayer game and it has to get some credit for that.

I think of the upcoming Neverwinter game as a persistent world where the server is being hosted by a professional company. The "custom" content is being made by the same company on a regular basis. The builders and DM's consist of both people from that company AND the players themselves.

I can see no better way to go and to me it sounds beautiful. This could be the "PW" I have been looking for. Only fear is that it will all fail on implementation because of the main market and direction of the production...but hope with me....hope for a miracle!

Sure...perhaps freedom will be inhibited. I mean...you won't be able to build WHATEVER you like....because the world has to "stick together right". I can live with that....if I at the same time have a huge world...populated by lots of players who want to tag-team monsters and then brag about it in the local tavern....

I don't need all kinds of weird PW's where the only point seems to be getting away from the Forgotten Realms, D&D and even fantasy altogether. I don't need that. I just need a proper FR, D&D NWN PW and Cryptic might just be about to give it to me...so please....

You have some good points but I generally dislike MMO games because you have to pay to play. If it's free to play...who knows. Maybe I might pick it up one day if it's got good reviews. Call me old fashion but once I pay £40, I want to be able to play the game I own and not pay monthly to keep playing.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 22 février 2011 - 01:37 .

[SHOVA]

SuperFly_2000 wrote...
Ahh...you mean like all the single player games? It is exactly like that is it not? To top it over theese games are even developed for console.....so trust me....it is not just MMO's....it is a lot more widespread in the industry...

I would say as most SP games. There are a few, a very small few, (more like a couple actualy) where the idea that a the PC is a hero was not even considered. My main line of thinking was in NWN, and mainly the MP type of mods available, either as running PWs, or on the vault.

A one world everyone plays gets a very vanilla type of world. Eventualy everyone will have the same gear, as word of mouth spreads where it is. then of course Someone will figure out that a fighter/wiz/doodoohead is the class combo that will PWN everything, and before you know it, everyone will sign in with a fighter/wizard/extreeemdoodoohead. Anyone who has logged into a PW has seen this happen before. The main difference between it happing in the new NWN/MMO, and NWN, is that, most of the players who play that way, have moved on from NWN, and those that stay with NWN, won't have to pay a monthly subscription. I am a cheap old git. I refuse to pay anthing else to play a game I bought in the store, let alone a monthly rate just to be a extreemdoodoohead.

Even though I already harped on it, the lack of a toolset, for me is the nail in the NWN/MMO coffin. this new game is taking for me at least 75% of the fun away from the funtionality that a NWN title should have. NWN2 did this too, with its lack of Multiplay abiltity- which is why I still don't own that one. A NWN/MMO, has no toolset, no SP, no Custom content from the community, no choice for where to play, and of course, is going to be rampant with the ol' doodooheads. blah. Thanks, but seriously, No thanks.
 

[SuperFly_2000]

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...
Witcher

That is a single player game and hence as far as it can get from all of this from my viewpoint.
 

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...
Both NWN2 and Witcher changed the original Aurora Engine, expanding it's capabilities, but severely limiting the ability of the average person being able to create content for them.

For me NWN2 didn't expand nothing...but lets not get into that....

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...
Any future NWN, whether it be NWN3, or NWNMMO will have no relationship with NWN1 other than name.

Let us at least hope you are wrong....

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...
They will be required to switch to the latest D&D Ruleset from Wizards of the Coast, ..... The license terms prevent a potential developer from any variation from WotC ideas as well. Oh, you can create a story line inside their worldscape, but you can't change the worldscape.

Let us not get hung up on licenses and stuff....Bioware didn't seem to mind to butcher D&D a little bit. I mean....as a game developer you SHOULD be given at least a reasonable room to interpret the rules....because lets fact it....D&D is made for PnP and we are making a computer game here....so deviations are bound to happen. One can only discuss how large they will be....

So...as I indeed have some freight about the 4:th ed myself I don't see it as a something that can not be overcome.....

About the story...I believe that is where most of the freedom comes by....they even have yet another book to follow that is not really super bound to 4:th ed is it....

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...
All of that said, explains why I keep on developing new stuff for such an old game.

I know...and I thank you for it....however....don't take this the wrong way.....but I'd rather have a professional company doing that....

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...
Be well, and continue playing NWN1!

Let's agree on this for some time ahead anyways....

Sorry for the shotgun posting style ...hehe (quote - post, quote - post and so on hehehe)

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 22 février 2011 - 03:23 .

[spool32]

Paying to play online is a valid concept, guys. www.avlis.org takes around $220/month to run, and we can support only a hundred or so users logged in simultaneously. This idea that "I paid $50 for a game so I should be able to play it online for free" only works if someone else is willing to cover the cost for you! On Avlis, a small subset of the playerbase covers the cost for everyone through generous donations. 

When you're talking tens of thousands of players, someone has to pay for the game development, and for the continued world building, the servers, the bandwidth... 

That said, the lack of community-developed content will make NWN3 a disappointment in my book. This community has a lot of talent and motivation, and bypassing all that will pit them in a head-to-head deathmatch with the rest of the MMO world... not a good prospect. 

[SHOVA]

Just to point out there are in fact 100s of servers up and running now that do not "require" donations, or even ask for them. I happen to host one, though I do not have the player base you do. NWN is the exception these days, as it seems so many games are going the pay pay pay route. There is of couse nothing wrong with having that kind of buisiness plan, however, I am not going to jump on board even if it is a valid concept. Not when I can play online without a monthly subscription.

[Frith5]

I wait. I watch. I keep all options open. How can anyone do else?

[Frith5]

I double post by mistake too, apparently. oOops.

Modifié par Frith5, 22 février 2011 - 11:53 .

[SuperFly_2000]

I don't know why you don't realise this guys. Paying something for the game after the initial release is natural...at least if you want some kind of ongoing develpoment of the game. It is just that the TYPES of games that do it nowdays is nothing that we sympathise with ....I know that and I don't sympathise with this games either....still I am not blind to see that some kind of payment has to be made.

I mean even NWN1 and NWN2 had expansions that you paid for right? ....so you could get your hands on that lovely extra content. Now imagine buying an expansion every three months....I know I would do it....

spool32 wrote...
 www.avlis.org takes around $220/month to run,

Thats odd...server hosting shouldn't cost like more than 29$ a month....do you have all the staff on a payroll or what?

Anyway...I think you got the general idea right here....that we need to pay for it....

spool32 wrote...
When you're talking tens of thousands of players, someone has to pay for the game development, and for the continued world building, the servers, the bandwidth... 

We think alike. However I think the servers themselves and the bandwith will be ridiculus small amounts of money compared to the ongoing development....also they will get help with the building from the players themselves....you know this right?

spool32 wrote...
, the lack of community-developed content will make NWN3 a disappointment in my book.

Umm...you do know they will have "the forge" right...? Which will be a kind of toolset where you can build stuff for their world....and if I understand correctly even some other stuff like items....so I don't see a problem here really....

They are using the community to the maximum and I guess players could even get paid (?) for contributing. Also Cryptic are known for their skills in making everything customizable...at least on the PC itself....

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 23 février 2011 - 09:45 .

[SuperFly_2000]

Frith5 wrote...
I wait. I watch. I keep all options open. How can anyone do else?

Words of wisdom...

[spool32]

spool32 wrote...
 www.avlis.org takes around $220/month to run,

Thats odd...server hosting shouldn't cost like more than 29$ a month....do you have all the staff on a payroll or what?

Anyway...I think you got the general idea right here....that we need to pay for it....

Avlis is operated by a non-profit corp called FOIG, Inc. We require transparency as part fo the by-laws, and publish all our financial info for the community to see. You can see all our financial data by clicking here and looking at the top few threads. None of the board members or the Avlis team make any money from the game - all the donations are applied toward current and future operating costs.

In short, we host our own modules (9 vms on a giant dual-quadcore server) rather than co-locating, because the volume and bandwidth make it more cost-efficient to do so. Also, we pay for hosting the forums, wiki, and image gallery, and for electricity to power and cool the server. Finally, we pay a small license fee to the creator of the Avlis gameworld for permission to use his intellectual property in an NWN setting.

spool32 wrote...
, the lack of community-developed content will make NWN3 a disappointment in my book.

Umm...you do know they will have "the forge" right...? Which will be a kind of toolset where you can build stuff for their world....and if I understand correctly even some other stuff like items....so I don't see a problem here really....

They are using the community to the maximum and I guess players could even get paid (?) for contributing. Also Cryptic are known for their skills in making everything customizable...at least on the PC itself....

I hate to be pessimistic about it, but customizing items or even linking a dungeon up to the main MMO is not going to compare to the things we do in the community now. There's no point in going into all the things we'll lack the ability to offer our players, because there are three words that express my pessimism perfectly:

No DM Client

Without a DM client, how can a PW function? It can't. 

Modifié par spool32, 23 février 2011 - 05:43 .

[SuperFly_2000]

spool32 wrote...
I hate to be pessimistic about it, but customizing items or even linking a dungeon up to the main MMO is not going to compare to the things we do in the community now.

Well...you can't make a planescape map for example...if thats what you mean. Personally I am perfectly happy with Forgotten Realms....I don't need strange settings. Other than that I don't see how customizing will be hindered. Sure...it has to fit the balance as well somehow....I mean you can't like have uber loot in your dungeon....but again...other than that...I don't see a problem.

I see the future...in that a company is constantly adding and improving the game. Think of it as a big PW (or a couple of them actually - we don't know yet) with many players and humungus amounts of builders and custom content authors ....I am sure you get the picture....this is what NWN should have been....

spool32 wrote...
No DM Client

Without a DM client, how can a PW function? 

The DM client is nothing else than a toolset-light that you can use on the fly. Well..you can also interact with the players ofcourse...and control monsters and NPC's live. I don't know if you have read ALL the interviews...but a DM like client is not at all ruled out....

What I want to be extra clear is that the building of the world is far more important than the DM interaction. Building for me....is somehow a modern version of old-school DM:ing if you will. There is no way in hell a live DM can prepare the amount of adventure that a Builder can do beforehand....for the simple fact...that the builder has a lot more time to prepare the adventure.

Lets not get carried away with the live DM's stuff. For me at least NWN is very much a PvE experience...and even in DM controlled PW's your time playing with only other players and against computer controlled monsters/NPC's is easily much bigger than the DM-time you're gonna get. Don't say against me on this one because we both know it is true.

On even the most hardcore RP servers that are supposed to be very much DM monitored all the time I would recon DM interaction with the normal player is less than 5% of that players total time spent there. So again...lets not exagerate the DM's role in this. I would rather much accentuate the players role if we are looking at story and roleplaying in general but I don't want to get to deep in this...

I have seen a lot of DM performance that is pretty much worse than if there hadn't been a DM at all. Lets shoot some examples: DM getting carried away, wrecks balance totally. Gives the players way to much loot and XP or way to less...breaking balance and lets the players be gods or whatever. Next thing is DM favoritism and server nepotism. Well....it is there on virtually any server that pretends to be a RP server. Players are judged not by their actual roleplaying but totally different things and be sure that the friends of the DM's will have the highest level, the best loot and perhaps even become DM's themselves. Lets ask ourselves this: was it roleplaying? Not to talk about that the RP servers have turned into some kind of drama-queen-get-together....instead of 3-5 players heading out on something interesting....

Don't get me wrong...some of the most heart-throbbing experiences on a PW was with DM's...sure....but still...the PvE experience as whole is still more important to me than live DM's....even though.....as I said....live DM's or at least "improved builder-DM's" are definately not ruled out in the upcoming Neverwinter.

Ok...now I am getting carried away...anyway....what I wanted to say is that the way we play on PW's today is in no way perfect and also the PW's themselves are even further from it....so please....at least wait for the game before whining.

If the game is a dumbed down, WoW adapted shooter/beat-em-up thing like everything else released today that is another thing and probably the only real fear....

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 23 février 2011 - 09:19 .

[spool32]

Right... so since you don't care about worlds other than FR, that's no big deal for you... but it's certainly a big deal for all of us who don't do FR worlds. Apart from that, though, what about:

Custom classes and PrCs

Custom playable races.

Spell additions.

Skill additions.

Dice rolling!

Quest triggers

Complex Dialog

NWNx hooks

Tilesets

Monsters



Basically everything that makes a custom PW what it is, will be missing. Making a dungeon with the stock tiles, stock monsters, and some loot, will not be anything like what we can do now.



---



I think yo're completely wrong about the DM client issues. Every complaint you have with current DM teams will still exist on whatever Cryptic creates, but you will NOT be able to have the good interactions.



Basically, we get a fairly uncustomizable world with few options and no true control, and twinking and favoritism but no good DM tools to run real plots either. Yay?



Ugh.

[SuperFly_2000]

Most of what you said will be in there....



....but nobody is going to force you to buy the game....



...try not to think negative about everything....



...and for gods sake...at least give the game a chance to reveal itself as something else than what you think it will be...

[WebShaman]

It ain't NWN v2.0

'nuff said.

Still waiting for that.

Modifié par WebShaman, 25 février 2011 - 12:21 .

[SuperFly_2000]

Well NWN v2.0 was released already...see how much good that did...

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 25 février 2011 - 02:56 .

[moilami]

Elton John is dead wrote...

NWN...I brought the deluxe version for £1 on Amazon, it was  £0.01 + £0.99 postage and packaging. At first, I thought it was average at best but after getting into the game, I've come to see how amazing it is. Not only did I enjoy the main campaign but I also enjoyed all the customization you could do and I enjoyed the easy to use toolset with which you can create almost anything with.

Bioware should have made NWN2 and then NWN3. This MMO just sounds a fail already what with it ditching classes.

Congrats for the purchase. It can be said to be "best buy", even though one can find excellent RPing from WoW if one looks for it enough and is lucky.

[Eternal Phoenix]

moilami wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

NWN...I brought the deluxe version for £1 on Amazon, it was  £0.01 + £0.99 postage and packaging. At first, I thought it was average at best but after getting into the game, I've come to see how amazing it is. Not only did I enjoy the main campaign but I also enjoyed all the customization you could do and I enjoyed the easy to use toolset with which you can create almost anything with.

Bioware should have made NWN2 and then NWN3. This MMO just sounds a fail already what with it ditching classes.

Congrats for the purchase. It can be said to be "best buy", even though one can find excellent RPing from WoW if one looks for it enough and is lucky.

NWN is surely one of the best RPG's out there. My only wish is that more people come back to it.

[olivier leroux]

WebShaman wrote...

It ain't NWN v2.0

'nuff said.

Still waiting for that.

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Well NWN v2.0 was released already...see how much good that did...

No, it wasn't, according to the point WebShaman intended to make. That was a different game, loved by some, hated by others, accepted by a third party but in any case not exactly the expected NWN v2.0. And this new release will be a different game, too. Nothing wrong with that but not what most people here are looking for as a worthy successor to such a versatile game / game creator / PnP simulator as is NWN. People are only having issues with the new release because its name is suggesting something different and could therefor be considered misleading.

Btw, being able to customize weapons and such for a company's MMO is not the same thing as creating your own tilesets, creatures, music and stories, introducing custom settings plus defining your own rules and becoming a dungeon master. You may not care for each and every single one of these aspects but others do and so we expect no less of a true successor to NWN. And just because the first attempt at creating one caused mixed feelings doesn't mean noone should try anymore.

That being said, who knows, maybe this new release is a nice game anyway. We'll see.  

Modifié par olivier leroux, 25 février 2011 - 05:04 .

[SHOVA]

olivier leroux wrote...

No, it wasn't, according to the point WebShaman intended to make. That was a different game, loved by some, hated by others, accepted by a third party but in any case not exactly the expected NWN v2.0. And this new release will be a different game, too. Nothing wrong with that but not what most people here are looking for as a worthy successor to such a versatile game / game creator / PnP simulator as is NWN. And people are only having issues with the new release because its name is suggesting something different and could therefor be considered misleading.

Btw, being able to customize weapons and such for a company's MMO is not the same thing as creating your own tilesets, creatures, music and stories, introducing custom settings plus defining your own rules and be a dungeon master. You may not care for each and every single one of these aspects but others do and so we expect no less of a true successor to NWN. And just because the first attempt at creating one caused mixed feelings doesn't mean noone should try anymore.

That being said, who knows, maybe this new release a nice game anyway. We'll see.  

Well said Olivier. I'll will add that Probably some also feel that the only way for NWN to have a a true successor, is for Bio-Ware to make it. Since that is not going to happen...