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Recycled Environments


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#1
Blacklash93

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So with a recent German review, it would seem that there is a problem with level recycling.

So, how bad is it? We all know that rehashed environments cheapen the experience of unique quests and exploration. Copy-paste design is not excusable especially in a game with such reduced scale from its predecessor. While I suppose a rehashed level once or twice, while still disappointing, is tolerable. But if it's anything on ME1's scale, we're looking at a serious issue. It must be at least significant if the reviewer had to make note of it.

It's kind of ironic how Bioware made such a big deal about adressing this issue in ME2 from ME1, but they can't follow through with it in their other franchise. And the "It was in Origins, so what?" justification isn't valid. DA2 is a sequel that should be improving on such design quality setbacks. As fans, we can't defend such things as okay. So let's keep that out of the discussion.

We can note that they aren't game-breaking, but to excuse them as minor like they have little effect on the game's quality can only make it more likely that Bioware won't adress such flaws.

Opinions? Thoughts on the matter?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 21 février 2011 - 10:21 .


#2
Sakanade

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Like that time where ever single tunnel in Origins looked the same



Or that every single "Ruin" was just plain Tevinter tunnel copies?



Yeah, annoying.

#3
Chuvvy

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Sakanade wrote...

Like that time where ever single tunnel in Origins looked the same

Or that every single "Ruin" was just plain Tevinter tunnel copies?

Yeah, annoying.


They had slight differences layed out differently the peices they used to build them all came from the same set still anoyying though. But apparently in DA2 they'll be carbon copies. A la the random encounter locations in DAA.

#4
astreqwerty

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its one of the worst things that can happen to a game and developers who respect themselves should never fall back on such cheap solutions..however da2 is the first letdown from bioware and the last(at least i wont tolerate more rushed stuff and cheapness from them) and therefore i forgive them this one time

t e r r i b l e

Modifié par astreqwerty, 21 février 2011 - 10:30 .


#5
DarthCaine

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Why do you think they centered the story on Kirkwall? So they can copy paste the same crap for the whole game

Modifié par DarthCaine, 21 février 2011 - 10:35 .


#6
JrayM16

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Why do I even come on these forums anymore?

#7
October Sixth

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JrayM16 wrote...

Why do I even come on these forums anymore?

You're a fan of TW?

#8
Sakanade

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DarthCaine wrote...

Why do you think the centered the story on Kirkwall? So they can copy paste the same crap for the whole game



This.




I just hope by god the generic random encounter picasso scenery doesn't make a comeback
(i.e: Hello there rebel dwarf / bandit / rogue)

Modifié par Sakanade, 21 février 2011 - 10:34 .


#9
drahelvete

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I doubt it's much worse than in any other BioWare game.

#10
AlexXIV

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Well it is disappointing especially after the promise it wouldn't happen again after DLCs like Witch Hunt. And the excuse that they didn't have enough time cannot really count. Let's hope it is 'tolerable'.

#11
Chuvvy

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DarthCaine wrote...

Why do you think the centered the story on Kirkwall? So they can copy paste the same crap for the whole game


Pretty much. Thanks short dev time.

#12
Darkeus

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JrayM16 wrote...

Why do I even come on these forums anymore?


Starting to wonder that myself....

#13
JrayM16

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October Sixth wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

Why do I even come on these forums anymore?

You're a fan of TW?


No, though such fan are part of why I question coming on these forums now you mention it.  I'm just grumpy after another trhead that turned into a DA2 vs. TW flamewar we don't need.

#14
Guest_distinguetraces_*

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I'm kinda ... waiting to see for myself how shameless this is before I scream.



Is it just "all the houses in Kirkwall have the same style doorway"? That's one thing.



Is it "last time we were in this identical dungeon layout, the glowing crystals were green and now they are purple"? That's another thing.

#15
PsychoBlonde

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Blacklash93 wrote...

We all know that rehashed environments cheapen the experience of unique quests and exploration.


Who's this "we"?  And "cheapen" the experience compared to what?

I have yet to play a 3D game where areas weren't "reused", and frankly I'm not bothered by it.  It can get to be too much--as in Mass Effect--but usually it's still better than straight-out procedural content, which is basically your only other option.

There's a strict upper limit to how much design time they can spend hand-crafting every single corner of every area in the game.  If I want to play an open-world exploration game, I'll get Skyrim when it comes out.  And I'm pretty sure that large portions of that game will feel eerily similar.

#16
JrayM16

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distinguetraces wrote...

I'm kinda ... waiting to see for myself how shameless this is before I scream.

Is it just "all the houses in Kirkwall have the same style doorway"? That's one thing.

Is it "last time we were in this identical dungeon layout, the glowing crystals were green and now they are purple"? That's another thing.


Agreed, I don't mind some recycled assets here and there.  I just don't want recycled layouts and overall aesthetics.

That's why the Collector station was a bit of a dissapointment to me in ME2, it just looked identical to the Collector ship in most apsects.  It made sense, but it just wasn't really cool as the final setpiece.

#17
bloodreaperfx

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And someone asked, the other day, why can't we see the destruction of Lothering? Recycled enviroment...duh.

#18
elearon1

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October Sixth wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...
Why do I even come on these forums anymore?

You're a fan of TW?


Amusingly, I'd swear this forum gets more Witcher fan traffic than the actual Witcher forums. (which I also frequent)  As to rehashed environments ... well, we're going to the deep roads again, right?  I don't imagine those will be very different from previous visits.  And I imagine there will be some similarity throughout the city regions.  So long as it isn't so redundant that I'm bored, I won't mind it.  

#19
The Archon

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Dragon Age: Origins did it, and that point is valid because everybody still LOVED that game.

#20
Vicious

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Baldur's Gate 2 copied and pasted plenty of environments, and it's hailed as pure awesome around here.

Point is, Bioware has always done it.

#21
drahelvete

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JrayM16 wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

Why do I even come on these forums anymore?

You're a fan of TW?


No, though such fan are part of why I question coming on these forums now you mention it.  I'm just grumpy after another trhead that turned into a DA2 vs. TW flamewar we don't need.


Hah! I wrote almost the exact same thing in another thread less than a minute before I saw this. Got locked before I had a chance to post, though.

Oh, well. One more day, and then I'm out of here.Posted Image

#22
darklordpocky-san

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I said this in another thread; rushed.



They just wanted to get as much in the game, without all that pesky detail of varying environments. Will it be bad? Dunno. Will it be as bad as any other Bioware game that reuses environments? Probably?



We'll have to wait and see for ourselves.

#23
Blacklash93

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The Archon wrote...

Dragon Age: Origins did it, and that point is valid because everybody still LOVED that game.

DA2 might as well have not improved on anything form Origins by that logic, because people still would have LOVED it just like Origins.

Unless you think recycled environments are good for a game, there's no reason to defend them.

They can be tolerable at best, nothing more.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 21 février 2011 - 10:50 .


#24
Sakanade

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darklordpocky-san wrote...

I said this in another thread; rushed.

They just wanted to get as much in the game, without all that pesky detail of varying environments. Will it be bad? Dunno. Will it be as bad as any other Bioware game that reuses environments? Probably?

We'll have to wait and see for ourselves.



Let's just hope it's not glitchy as hell

Remember the Origins Epilogue?

Had more bugs than a flycatcher in summer

#25
DarthCaine

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double post

Modifié par DarthCaine, 21 février 2011 - 10:49 .