173 réponses à ce sujet

[Anathemic]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

JigPig wrote...

"I can't back up my opinion, and I have no sources or quotes"

Burden of proof son.

You think I'm gonna waste my time on YOU? Go look it up yourself if you're so interested, but it won't matter, you'll refuse to believe it and still worship the ground BioWare walks on

Seeing as how BioWare has not let us down so far, I'm willing to actually play the game before i resort to the "OMG BIOWARE FAILED WE ARE ALL DOOOOOOOOOMED" line of thinking.

I reckon Dragon Age 2 will be great, like the other games they have released so far. Untill I play one that I find lacking, I'll give the benifit of the doubt.

I will continue to be confused by the people that think BioWare'll settle for less, when their history proves otherwise.

DA:O DLC, Mass Effect 2, enitrely subjective of course

ME2 I liked, though I have heard others didnt. Still enough people liked it to make it very big seller, though sales dont offer direct proff of a games greatness. They do show how many people bought and played the game, and didnt it win a VGA award or something?

DLC is just extra stuff, not an acctual game.

I dont know, I detested ME2 just in general, in ME1 I've had around 10 playthroughs, in ME2 I didn't even go for the second. Story was forced, environment was bleh (look at dat Citadel), it felt like story served the combat.

As for DLC, it may be extra stuff, but it adds to the game. Not to mention mini expansions such as Awakening and Witch Hunt, neither was impressive.

[Amioran]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Unless you think recycled environments are good for a game, there's no reason to defend them.

They can be tolerable at best, nothing more.

It's impossible to do a 20+ hours game without recycled environments (whatever that means, since it has many interpretations). It would require a development cycle on par with Duke Nukem Forever (only without the lapses).

Hell, it's almost impossible to do a 6+ hours game without recycling assets. There's neither a 3D engine game that doesn't recycle assets and no 20+ hours game that doesn't recycle environments. It always happen and it willl always happen (at last for a lot of time to come). So let's keep the facts straight, shall we?

It all depends what this fantomatic "recycled" word means in the case of DA2, but I doubt it will be any worse than DAO or any worse than any other RPG title.

I'm amused at how people that continually bash this or that about the game have most of the time a complete lack of knowledge on what the damn they are speaking about. This is singular.

I wonder if the fans of The Witcher (that continually bash DA2 as if it does all wrong in comparision) have noticed pherhaps that there are many recycled environments in that game too, more so than the original DAO, in fact. Let's see if they think it "tolerable at best" also for their so loved title.

Modifié par Amioran, 21 février 2011 - 11:56 .

[DarthCaine]

Amioran wrote...

It's impossible to do a 20+ hours game without recycled environments (whatever that means, since it has many interpretations).

Dunno about that, but ME2 and especially KOTOR had dozens of varied locations

[Dutch105]

So people are making a judgement on a game they haven't played, haven't even played the demo yet, and which one reviewer suggested that some of the quests/enivronments might be a little similar?



It's good to know that people have an open mind....

[AtreiyaN7]

Blacklash93 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

In an open-world game you have to make many locations and many expansive environments, you can't possibly make them all unique. In DA2 with such a limited setting, it is very possible.

I'm also not trying to bring up a direct ME2 comparison. I want the game to decently varied with it's small scope.

An open-world is not an excuse. From what I hear, people who actually played FFXIV weren't exactly thrilled with the copying & pasting. And you mentioned the change in sidequests from ME1 to ME2 in your opening post, so yes, you did compare it.

Fine, I'll drop the open-world argument. It was just an off-hand comment to begin with. It isn't more excusable in DA2, however, because you're not exploring nearly as much ground and it makes the rehashing more noticable.

ME2 is not the main part of my argument. I just pointed out that Biowaremade a big deal about this issue in ME2 but oddly seem to not hold that same standard to DA. There's nothing wrong with comparing the two, anyway.

Different dev teams - the ME2 devs got feedback after ME1. I know, because I also haunted the ME forums quite a bit, and the extremely boring carbon-copy layouts were criticized by everyone (rightly so, as I found that they bored me to tears). I've already stated that it would have been nice if the DA team had taken a lesson from the ME2 devs with regards to unique sidequests, but I assume they were more focused on the main quest and areas tied directly to it. Personally, if I find that the sidequests are stultifyingly dull like the ME1 sidequests, I'm certainly going to be critical about it. However, I think I actually need to, oh, PLAY THE GAME FIRST before making an assessment about it.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 22 février 2011 - 12:00 .

[Amioran]

DarthCaine wrote...
Dunno about that, but ME2 and especially KOTOR had dozens of varied locations

And what makes you think that DA2 will not have those? Recycling enviroments is not equal to "not varied locations" you know...

The fact that the game is mostly taking place in Kirkwall doesn't mean that you will not have varied instances within it. And anyway I much prefer good quests in similar locations vs. bad quest in varied ones, but this can be subjective.

Modifié par Amioran, 21 février 2011 - 11:59 .

[Maderas_]

How can anybody actually defend using rehashed areas? Seriously? I'm completely boggled right now. You could open up one of the side quest maps in the toolset and spend 5 minutes moving rocks and altering the geometry slightly and it would be better than blatant copy/paste.

[Anathemic]

Amioran wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Unless you think recycled environments are good for a game, there's no reason to defend them.

They can be tolerable at best, nothing more.

It's impossible to do a 20+ hours game without recycled environments (whatever that means, since it has many interpretations). It would require a development cycle on par with Duke Nukem Forever (only without the lapses).

Hell, it's almost impossible to do a 6+ hours game without recycling assets. There's neither a 3D engine game that doesn't recycle assets and no 20+ hours game that doesn't recycle environments. It always happen and it willl always happen (at last for a lot of time to come). So let's keep the facts straight, shall we?

It all depends what this fantomatic "recycled" word means in the case of DA2, but I doubt it will be any worse than DAO or any worse than any other RPG title.

I'm amused at how people that continually bash this or that about the game have most of the time a complete lack of knowledge on what the damn they are speaking about. This is singular.

I wonder if the fans of The Witcher (that continually bash DA2 as if it does all wrong in comparision) have noticed pherhaps that there are many recycled environments in that game too, more so than the original DAO, in fact. Let's see if they think it "tolerable at best" also for their so loved title.

Was that directed at me? I wasn't even aguing against that in this thread (nor do I think I was arguing anything in this thread).

Sure, TW has recycled environments (Crypts, Caves, Houses, etc.). Again TW wasn't strong in this, so why bring it up?

[DarthCaine]

Dutch105 wrote...

So people are making a judgement on a game they haven't played, haven't even played the demo yet, and which one reviewer suggested that some of the quests/enivronments might be a little similar?

It's good to know that people have an open mind....

Erm, it's a forum about an unreleased game. What else is there besides speculation? Or do you expect everyone to agree with BioWare's choices?

[Dan_cw]

Was this the same review that cited 'lack of customisation with skill/talent trees'?

http://social.biowar...1/index/6090138

If it is, I'd say that criticism doesn't hold too much water based on the link provided above. Yet this is being focused on for some reason.

Modifié par Dan_cw, 22 février 2011 - 12:00 .

[Moondoggie]

DarthCaine wrote...

Dunno about that, but ME2 and especially KOTOR had dozens of varied locations

And how do you know DA2 does not have dozens of varied locations? Actually i have no idea why i am even replying to you. You won't listen to logic or reason. On the subject of ME2 and KOTOR even they used tons of metalic corridors that were basically the same with some new textures on them.

[Darkeus]

Speculation =/= spouting bull****.....

[Amioran]

Anathemic wrote...

Was that directed at me? I wasn't even aguing against that in this thread (nor do I think I was arguing anything in this thread).

Sure, TW has recycled environments (Crypts, Caves, Houses, etc.). Again TW wasn't strong in this, so why bring it up?

No, it wasn't directed personally at you. I just made some bashers know this since many of them adore TW and think DA2 is doing everything wrong in comparision.

[DieHigh2012]

DarthCaine wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Seeing as how BioWare has not let us down so far, I'm willing to actually play the game before i resort to the "OMG BIOWARE FAILED WE ARE ALL DOOOOOOOOOMED" line of thinking.

I never said DA2 won't a good game.

I reckon Dragon Age 2 will be great, like the other games they have released so far.

That I doubt. IMO it'll be BioWare's worst game since Jade Empire (that doesn't mean JE is a bad game). DA2 WILL be a good game, just not as good as anything BioWare made in the last 5 years.

I will continue to be confused by the people that think BioWare'll settle for less, when their history proves otherwise.

You mean the crap copy paste bases in ME1? Or the revamped locations in the DAO DLCs?
I thought NwN was mediocre at best, but that's subjective.

Look at ME2, IMO it's the second best RPG ever made (1st is KOTOR), but a lot of people thought it was crap.

I think it will be great, you think it will be good. What is it we are debating again?

I feel that all this speculation is pointless, if the game comes out and they miss the mark I'll admit I was wrong. However, I am very doubtful that this will come to pass.

I enjoy playing jade empire to this day. I like the storys and characters that BioWare comes up with, dont really care about the combat aspect. (though I think ME2 was better than ME1, and Im shure I'll like DA2 combat over DA:O)

[Amioran]

Maderas_ wrote...

How can anybody actually defend using rehashed areas? Seriously? I'm completely boggled right now. You could open up one of the side quest maps in the toolset and spend 5 minutes moving rocks and altering the geometry slightly and it would be better than blatant copy/paste.

Maybe because, again, ALL rpgs that use a 3D engine does this? Maybe because it's practically impossible to do an RPG that has a gameplay long enough to be called so without doing it? Maybe because "recycled" can mean everything and nothing at the same time?

Modifié par Amioran, 22 février 2011 - 12:03 .

[Marionetten]

Dan_cw wrote...

Was this the same review that cited 'lack of customisation with skill/talent trees'?

http://social.biowar...1/index/6090138

If it is, I'd say that criticism doesn't hold too much water based on the link provided above. Yet this is being focused on for some reason.

It is lacking when compared to Dragon Age: Origins. A quick tally of actual abilities ( not mere upgrades ) makes it obvious. Not sure what you're looking at.

[Moondoggie]

Amioran wrote...

Maderas_ wrote...

How can anybody actually defend using rehashed areas? Seriously? I'm completely boggled right now. You could open up one of the side quest maps in the toolset and spend 5 minutes moving rocks and altering the geometry slightly and it would be better than blatant copy/paste.

Maybe because, again, ALL rpgs that use a 3D engine does this? Maybe because it's practically impossible to do an RPG that has a gameplay long enough to be called so without doing it?

And i challange anyone to name an RPG that does not do this. Or even a game that does not copy and paste enviroments or reuse stuff and put new textures over it so it looks different.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

astreqwerty wrote...

its one of the worst things that can happen to a game and developers who respect themselves should never fall back on such cheap solutions..however da2 is the first letdown from bioware and the last(at least i wont tolerate more rushed stuff and cheapness from them) and therefore i forgive them this one time

t e r r i b l e

Yeah, the whole game is a disappointment because you heard something from someone who read a review of a game, even though modern reviews seem to get a lot of stuff wrong nowadays. Of course, it makes so much sense to be disappointed with a game before you play it...

[Marionetten]

Moondoggie wrote...

And i challange anyone to name an RPG that does not do this. Or even a game that does not copy and paste enviroments or reuse stuff and put new textures over it so it looks different.

The Witcher 2.

/trollface

[Maderas_]

Amioran wrote...

Maderas_ wrote...

How can anybody actually defend using rehashed areas? Seriously? I'm completely boggled right now. You could open up one of the side quest maps in the toolset and spend 5 minutes moving rocks and altering the geometry slightly and it would be better than blatant copy/paste.

Maybe because, again, ALL rpgs that use a 3D engine does this? Maybe because it's practically impossible to do an RPG that has a gameplay long enough to be called so without doing it? Maybe because "recycled" can mean everything and nothing at the same time?

Except for the fact that your statement is obviously untrue to anybody who has played many RPGs. The only games I can think of with blatant copy/paste environments other than BioWare's are titles like Final Fantasy with overland map travel and random encounters, and some of the indoor environments in Vizima on The Witcher.

Modifié par Maderas_, 22 février 2011 - 12:07 .

[Dan_cw]

Marionetten wrote...

Dan_cw wrote...

Was this the same review that cited 'lack of customisation with skill/talent trees'?

http://social.biowar...1/index/6090138

If it is, I'd say that criticism doesn't hold too much water based on the link provided above. Yet this is being focused on for some reason.

It is lacking when compared to Dragon Age: Origins. A quick tally of actual abilities ( not mere upgrades ) makes it obvious. Not sure what you're looking at.

Really? 5 or so active/sustained abilities per tree (of 6) with the rest of the 5-6 talents upgrades/passive? I'd say it's at least on par with Origins, if not better. This is discounting mage spells however.

And then there are two specialisations you can choose, with the trees being the same size.

Modifié par Dan_cw, 22 février 2011 - 12:08 .

[Moondoggie]

Marionetten wrote...

The Witcher 2.

/trollface

I said a game that doesn't copy and paste enviroments not a game that uses porn to hide the fact the game actually sucks

[PhrosniteAgainROFL]

People are acting as if the whole game takes place on the same f-ing street.

Moondoggie wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

The Witcher 2.

/trollface

I said a game that doesn't copy and paste enviroments not a game that uses porn to hide the fact the game actually sucks [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

Finally someone else said it. I also had the feeling that people got hypnotised by the full body nudity and forgot how flawed the game is.

Modifié par PhrosniteAgainROFL, 22 février 2011 - 12:11 .

[Marionetten]

Dan_cw wrote...

Really? 5 or so active/sustained abilities per tree (of 6) with the rest of the 5-6 talents upgrades/passive? I'd say it's at least on par with Origins, if not better. This is discounting mage spells however.

What trees are you looking at? Most listed are upgrades or passives. Two handed for example has THREE actives in total.

Moondoggie wrote...


I said a game that doesn't copy and paste enviroments not a game that uses porn to hide the fact the game actually sucks [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

Sex and violence, baby.

Modifié par Marionetten, 22 février 2011 - 12:10 .

[Moondoggie]

PhrosniteAgainROFL wrote...

People are acting as if the whole game takes place on the same f-ing street.

You see some people suffer from the delusion that they know exactly what the whole game is like based on third hand information on the forum.