258 réponses à ce sujet

[DPSSOC]

Quole wrote...
I agree that Ashley gets an unesessarily bad rep because of this but if ANY squadmate should be justified in hating a certain group of people it would be Tali and the Geth.

And/or Wrex and the Turians.

[Quole]

DPSSOC wrote...

Quole wrote...
I agree that Ashley gets an unesessarily bad rep because of this but if ANY squadmate should be justified in hating a certain group of people it would be Tali and the Geth.

And/or Wrex and the Turians.

True, however I would argue that the Quarians suffered more from the geth than the Krogans did against the Turians.

also this is getting OT:(

Modifié par Quole, 22 février 2011 - 06:13 .

[JediNg]

Quole wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Quole wrote...
I agree that Ashley gets an unesessarily bad rep because of this but if ANY squadmate should be justified in hating a certain group of people it would be Tali and the Geth.

And/or Wrex and the Turians.

True, however I would argue that the Quarians suffered more from the geth than the Krogans did against the Turians.

Agree with most things you said except this.  Krogans have been living with the genophage for ~1000 years

[Raanz]

They are hated because they are not aliens. Paint them blue and give them tentacle hair and all is forgiven.

[Quole]

JediNg wrote...

Quole wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Quole wrote...
I agree that Ashley gets an unesessarily bad rep because of this but if ANY squadmate should be justified in hating a certain group of people it would be Tali and the Geth.

And/or Wrex and the Turians.

True, however I would argue that the Quarians suffered more from the geth than the Krogans did against the Turians.

Agree with most things you said except this.  Krogans have been living with the genophage for ~1000 years

And the Quarians only have roughly 17million people left from billions. Now  they are slowly dying, Have to live in suits all the time, are constantly drifting the galaxy and are not allowed to settle anywhere, and are completely and utterly hated by the entire galaxy. Again, you could ARGUE that thats worse than the genophage or not. I personally think it is. Espesially since its possible to cure the genophage.

Also keep in mind the genophage has affected the Krogan for a few thousand years which would only equate to a few generations, like the Quarians and the Geth.

Modifié par Quole, 22 février 2011 - 06:32 .

[Xilizhra]

Raanz wrote...

They are hated because they are not aliens. Paint them blue and give them tentacle hair and all is forgiven.

Unless you're Morinth.

[didymos1120]

Xilizhra wrote...

Raanz wrote...

They are hated because they are not aliens. Paint them blue and give them tentacle hair and all is forgiven.

Unless you're Morinth.

Well, you know...serial killer.

[Ahriman]

I'm wondering, why everyone should like every team member? And why these teammates shouldn't have any flaws?

[snakeboy86]

i hate the fact that they both think shepard drank from the cerberus cool aid after they killed that admiral and helped shep destroy alot of there projects

[didymos1120]

snakeboy86 wrote...

i hate the fact that they both think shepard drank from the cerberus cool aid after they killed that admiral and helped shep destroy alot of there projects

It's more that they think Cerberus might have done something mad-sciencey to Shepard.

[JediNg]

snakeboy86 wrote...

i hate the fact that they both think
shepard drank from the cerberus cool aid after they killed that admiral
and helped shep destroy alot of there projects

Pretty much this.  And what Didy said.

Reaper threat looming, Collector threat very real and near.  Stay hung up on Cerberus, accuse Shepard of being manipulated by Cerberus (even going so far as to accuse Cerberus of being behind collector attacks or something along those lines).  You suck.  I'm loyal to the Alliance.

All my hate.  I'm trying to save the whole damn Galaxy here man/lady.

[jeweledleah]

JediNg wrote...

snakeboy86 wrote...

i hate the fact that they both think
shepard drank from the cerberus cool aid after they killed that admiral
and helped shep destroy alot of there projects

Pretty much this.  And what Didy said.

Reaper threat looming, Collector threat very real and near.  Stay hung up on Cerberus, accuse Shepard of being manipulated by Cerberus (even going so far as to accuse Cerberus of being behind collector attacks or something along those lines).  You suck.  I'm loyal to the Alliance.

All my hate.  I'm trying to save the whole damn Galaxy here man/lady.

and they are supposed to just take your word for it?  After you suspiciously show up on a cerberus vessel at the colony that they recieved a tip would be attacked by cerberus (what did you think they were there for, or did you even listen to what they were saying?), knowing that cerberus used aliens before, used mind control before?  oh yeah, did I mention that you were supposedly dead for over 2 years and then showed up like nothing happened, acting like nothing happened?  most people don't know what collectors look like (Miranda recognizing them, thinking she recognized them actualy is a bit, hmmmm - collectors don't show up in citadel space) - they are just some alien you've not seen before and there's nothing really to tie them to Reapers or Geth, untill YOU, the mighty Shepard find that connection via some manipulation by TIM, but VS is supposed to know that somehow before even you do. 

the fact that Tali and Garrus accept you without question makes less sence then VS being angry.  Saren also thought he was saving the galaxy, up untill the very end.  And the fact that you aknowledge working with Cerberus, after all that they have done is, heck I'd be doubting if I'm all there myself right along with VS.

P.S.  Its not nessesary to like every squad mate, far from it.  heck, I don't like or trust Zaeed myself. the hate some people fell though, up to wishing that characters are killed off just to see their fans rage, is very..strange.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 22 février 2011 - 07:50 .

[JediNg]

jeweledleah wrote...

JediNg wrote...

snakeboy86 wrote...

i hate the fact that they both think
shepard drank from the cerberus cool aid after they killed that admiral
and helped shep destroy alot of there projects

Pretty much this.  And what Didy said.

Reaper threat looming, Collector threat very real and near.  Stay hung up on Cerberus, accuse Shepard of being manipulated by Cerberus (even going so far as to accuse Cerberus of being behind collector attacks or something along those lines).  You suck.  I'm loyal to the Alliance.

All my hate.  I'm trying to save the whole damn Galaxy here man/lady.

and they are supposed to just take your word for it?  After you suspiciously show up on a cerberus vessel at the colony that they recieved a tip would be attacked by cerberus (what did you think they were there for, or did you even listen to what they were saying?), knowing that cerberus used aliens before, used mind control before?  oh yeah, did I mention that you were supposedly dead for over 2 years and then showed up like nothing happened, acting like nothing happened?  most people don't know what collectors look like (Miranda recognizing them, thinking she recognized them actualy is a bit, hmmmm - collectors don't show up in citadel space) - they are just some alien you've not seen before and there's nothing really to tie them to Reapers or Geth, untill YOU, the mighty Shepard find that connection via some manipulation by TIM, but VS is supposed to know that somehow before even you do. 

the fact that Tali and Garrus accept you without question makes less sence then VS being angry.  Saren also thought he was saving the galaxy, up untill the very end.  And the fact that you aknowledge working with Cerberus, after all that they have done is, heck I'd be doubting if I'm all there myself right along with VS.

P.S.  Its not nessesary to like every squad mate, far from it.  heck, I don't like or trust Zaeed myself. the hate some people fell though, up to wishing that characters are killed off just to see their fans rage, is very..strange.

After all we went through together, damn right they should take my word for it.  Dialogue wasn't even written where you'd get to explain everything.  It was all written so that they had the best chance of dismissing you as being some sort of traitor.

[Saren100]

I wouldnt mind some vs dlc but theres many better things they could do with this new dlc storywise.

[CroGamer002]

Cra5y Pineapple Mesina2 wrote...

In the meantime OP, you shouldn't really worry, all the squaddies get hate; whether it be...

Ash: Racist Very suspicious with alien but not racist, hot and awesome
Kaidan: Boring Intresting fella but he need to get his voice up a bit
Liara: Easy
Garrus: Angsty Very emo in ME1, very badass in ME2
Tali: Effeminate Cute and a nerd that can kill you with shotgun
Wrex: Mean:devil:
Miranda: Big Headed I like her and it's not do to her ass
Jacob: Super Boring
Jack: Uneffeminate Under the skin of total psychopath there is very hurt girl that needs some love:wub:
Thane: Emo Religious badass assassin that wants to take his son out of his path, seal of approval
Grunt: Immature and "I AM KROGAN" charge.
Zaeed: Mean:devil:
Samara: Emotionless I respect her and <3
Morinth: Mean Death by snu-snu is not approved
Kasumi: ...Actually everybody likes Kasumi
Legion: ...everybody likes Legion too
Mordin: ...same

The real point is that they all have positives, except Morinth.

Modifié par Mesina2, 22 février 2011 - 08:01 .

[Lunatic LK47]

jeweledleah wrote...
And they are supposed to just take your word for it?  After you suspiciously show up on a cerberus vessel at the colony that they recieved a tip would be attacked by cerberus (what did you think they were there for, or did you even listen to what they were saying?), knowing that cerberus used aliens before, used mind control before?  oh yeah, did I mention that you were supposedly dead for over 2 years and then showed up like nothing happened, acting like nothing happened?  most people don't know what collectors look like (Miranda recognizing them, thinking she recognized them actualy is a bit, hmmmm - collectors don't show up in citadel space) - they are just some alien you've not seen before and there's nothing really to tie them to Reapers or Geth, untill YOU, the mighty Shepard find that connection via some manipulation by TIM, but VS is supposed to know that somehow before even you do.

And I'm pissed that BioWare didn't go far enough with the data-import. An extra fourth or fifth option saying "I'm not an idiot! I didn't forget about Cerberus's deeds and we'll go after them after the Collector threat is over. Last time I checked, you *HELPED ME* commit treason just so we could go after Saren" would have at least downplayed the damage. Instead, the encounter as a whole left a sour taste in my house just for the sake of "Let's just give a soap-opera-caliber drama just for the sake of having it." Like what every fan of every Virmire survivor said, ruined by **** writing.

the fact that Tali and Garrus accept you without question makes less sence then VS being angry.  Saren also thought he was saving the galaxy, up untill the very end.  And the fact that you aknowledge working with Cerberus, after all that they have done is, heck I'd be doubting if I'm all there myself right along with VS.

Except Tali and Garrus idolize Shepard and were with him/her every step of the way considering they lost faith in their respective leaders and whatnot. Regarding Saren: I hate to tell you this, but Saren was little more than a one-dimensional genocidal jack-ass, and there was little to nothing worth redeeming after reading Drew's novel.

[Lunatic LK47]

JediNg wrote...


After all we went through together, damn right they should take my word for it.  Dialogue wasn't even written where you'd get to explain everything.  It was all written so that they had the best chance of dismissing you as being some sort of traitor.

Bolded for emphasis.

[jeweledleah]

it was the problem with Shepard's lines. Shepards. not virmire survivor. despite rolling them into one character, what they really messed up was Shepard's dialogue.

imagine this situation. you are in a committed relationship and you come into your house to find your SO in bed with someone. someone you know to be a criminal, and it looks like you are there of your own will. and when they actually ask you - you see, yes, I'm here with them, but this isn't what it looks like and could you just trust me?

I don't know about you, but if my So would ask me to trust him without giving any satisfactory explanation, not even telling me that he will explain in a minute, just going this isn't what it looks like and I'm cheating on you - for your own good? I'd tell them to go, have a nice life...if I were feeling generous. 

it was a badly handled scene. but VS didn't betray Shepard. Shepard, or rather Shepard's writers went with extra helping of derp and set it up so that you're stuck working with the damn Cerberus. whether you like it, or not.

oh and that mutiny you committed in ME1? do you remember who took responsibility for it? who orchestrated the whole thing? oh yes, captain Anderson, a superior officer to both of you. not to mention, the fact that you had to go to Ilos wasn't exactly tainted by associations with shady organizations.

Edited to add.  sorry, but trust doesn't work like that.  Blind faith works like that.  trust can be broken, even long standing trust and it sure looked like that's what Shepard was doing with VS.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 22 février 2011 - 08:14 .

[JediNg]

jeweledleah wrote...

it was the problem with Shepard's lines. Shepards. not virmire survivor. despite rolling them into one character, what they really messed up was Shepard's dialogue.

imagine this situation. you are in a committed relationship and you come into your house to find your SO in bed with someone. someone you know to be a criminal, and it looks like you are there of your own will. and when they actually ask you - you see, yes, I'm here with them, but this isn't what it looks like and could you just trust me?

I don't know about you, but if my So would ask me to trust him without giving any satisfactory explanation, not even telling me that he will explain in a minute, just going this isn't what it looks like and I'm cheating on you - for your own good? I'd tell them to go, have a nice life...if I were feeling generous.

it was a badly handled scene. but VS didn't betray Shepard. Shepard, or rather Shepard's writers went with extra helping of derp and set it up so that you're stuck working with the damn Cerberus. whether you like it, or not.

oh and that mutiny you committed in ME1? do you remember who took responsibility for it? who orchestrated the whole thing? oh yes, captain Anderson, a superior officer to both of you. not to mention, the fact that you had to go to Ilos wasn't exactly tainted by associations with shady organizations.

Pretty much.  The lack of dialogue options for Shepard, arguing from what you've (Shepard) experienced the last few weeks/months/years contributed to the distaste for the VS in that scene, imo.

[Lunatic LK47]

jeweledleah wrote...
oh and that mutiny you committed in ME1? do you remember who took responsibility for it? who orchestrated the whole thing? oh yes, captain Anderson, a superior officer to both of you. not to mention, the fact that you had to go to Ilos wasn't exactly tainted by associations with shady organizations.

Except Ash/Kaidan were actually on the frontlines in pursuing Saren. Have they ever once doubted Shepard when they were around in the chase for the past what, several months? They'd be complete morons if they decided to back out by saying, "Screw this, Shepard. I want to protect my career." How Horizon was handled nearly felt like a complete 180.

[Lunatic LK47]

jeweledleah wrote...

Edited to add.  sorry, but trust doesn't work like that.  Blind faith works like that.  trust can be broken, even long standing trust and it sure looked like that's what Shepard was doing with VS.

Except Shepard had no say in calling Ash/Kaidan. Remember being stone-walled by Anderson?

[jeweledleah]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
oh and that mutiny you committed in ME1? do you remember who took responsibility for it? who orchestrated the whole thing? oh yes, captain Anderson, a superior officer to both of you. not to mention, the fact that you had to go to Ilos wasn't exactly tainted by associations with shady organizations.

Except Ash/Kaidan were actually on the frontlines in pursuing Saren. Have they ever once doubted Shepard when they were around in the chase for the past what, several months? They'd be complete morons if they decided to back out by saying, "Screw this, Shepard. I want to protect my career." How Horizon was handled nearly felt like a complete 180.

they weren't protecting their career on Horizon.  they were protecting their principles, and they probably felt like they were protecting humanity as well.  both Ashley and Kaidan discuss your decisions with you.  they tell you that they will obey your orders and that they need to trust that you're doing the right thing, but they still say if they feel like whatever you're doing might not be the best decisions.  they offer input.

on Horizon, you're not only do not command them anymore, you're working with the terrorist organization.  they haven't seen you in years, they now have areason to suspect that you faked your death, why didn't you contact alliance exactly and why the heck aren't you explaining anything and instead just asking them to trust you?
do they know you were being stonewalled?  did you tell them that?

writers messed up.  yes.  but they messed up shepard more then VS, waaay more.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 22 février 2011 - 08:22 .

[JediNg]

jeweledleah wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
oh and that mutiny you committed in ME1? do you remember who took responsibility for it? who orchestrated the whole thing? oh yes, captain Anderson, a superior officer to both of you. not to mention, the fact that you had to go to Ilos wasn't exactly tainted by associations with shady organizations.

Except Ash/Kaidan were actually on the frontlines in pursuing Saren. Have they ever once doubted Shepard when they were around in the chase for the past what, several months? They'd be complete morons if they decided to back out by saying, "Screw this, Shepard. I want to protect my career." How Horizon was handled nearly felt like a complete 180.

they weren't protecting their career on Horizon.  they were protecting their principles, and they probably felt like they were protecting humanity as well.  both Ashley and Kaidan discuss your decisions with you.  they tell you that they will obey your orders and that they need to trust that you're doing the right thing, but they still say if they feel like whatever you're doing might not be the best decisions.  they offer input.

on Horizon, you're not only do not command them anymore, you're working with the terrorist organization.  they haven't seen you in years, they now have areason to suspect that you faked your death, why didn't you contact alliance exactly and why the heck aren't you explaining anything and instead just asking them to trust you?
do they know you were being stonewalled?  did you tell them that?

writers messed up.  yes.  but they messed up shepard more then VS, waaay more.

Lol, the funniest thing was in LOTSB, the correspondence in Admiral Hackett's dossier.  Some Alliance officer wants permission to contact Shepard (or apprehend, judging from the tone), writes out this long paragraph.  Hackett's reply was just "request denied."  I lol'd.

[Abispa]

Hmm. Since I don't know what has been printed in all the Mass Effect novels and comics, I only have the video games themselves to let me know what is "normal" or not in the Mass Effect universe.

I get the feeling that having someone RAISED FROM THE DEAD is an incredibly rare occurrence in the ME universe. There are some hints that it may be possible to clone someone or cybernetically restore somebody, but a clone is just a "twin" lacking the original's experiences and must be reeducated similar to the Krogan tank bred, and a cyborg can have a "control chip" installed (according to Miranda). Given that, the VS and Liara (who had background information on Shepard rebuilding) are the only people in the whole game who have a realistic reaction to their friend being back from the dead.

And how did he come back? HE WAS RESURRECTED BY THE ORGANIZATION THAT RAN INSANE BIOLOGICAL EXPERIMENTS AND TRIED TO KILL YOU all through ME1. Oh, and they have a history of killing and experimenting on Alliance soldiers.

Part of the problem is Bioware being inconsistent and changing the premise of Cerberus between the two games. In the first game Kuhoku had to go rogue and dig up information on some dark, sinister black ops organization called "Cerberus" that no one had ever heard about. In ME2, Cerberus is kind of like the Klu Klux Klan, separate from "normal" society yet out in the open. Even though they're avowed enemies of the council, supposedly a "capital offense," an advanced warship with their markings can still dock at the Citadel. Mercenary groups and security on alien worlds like Illium and Omega see Miranda and Jacob in uniform and say, "Oh, look, some Cerberus guys. *Yawn*." The VS are written like they're the only ones who remember the ME1 Cerberus, the rest of the crew act like they only know the ME2 Cerberus, and Anderson uncomfortably jumps back and forth between the two.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I'm mostly angry over the fact that they have seemingly acomplished nothing in the past two years. They can distrust Shepard for all I care, they just need to have done something themselves first.

Perhaps Arrival DLC will prove me wrong?