258 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

BobSmith101 wrote...

There is nothing wrong with the logic.

They both have to advance the same story.
In other words one of them is totally redundant on any given save game.

If we take 1 hour as the DLC storytelling benchmark. Then with 2 characters they get 30 minutes each. It's pretty straightforward.

Except it's also completely basis.

If there's a 1 hour story telling benchmark for the mission, then that's one hour with either character. Because while both have to advance the same story, one of them is also dead in any given game, and is irrelevant.

There's no reason or basis to assert that there will be two separate 30 minutes, one per character, when there's no reason they can't both share the same hour with minimum retooling. 'The Virmire Survivor' is a Mass Effect device similar to 'the Tech Specialist', 'the Biotic Specialist', or even 'the Team Leader.' Simply because various people could fill the role of each never means that suddenly there was( time of relevance) x (number of people applicalbe) worth of game content. The game progression and playthrough was the same, with who you chose
simply being 'redundant.'

[AkiKishi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Except it's also completely basis.

If there's a 1 hour story telling benchmark for the mission, then that's one hour with either character. Because while both have to advance the same story, one of them is also dead in any given game, and is irrelevant.

There's no reason or basis to assert that there will be two separate 30 minutes, one per character, when there's no reason they can't both share the same hour with minimum retooling. 'The Virmire Survivor' is a Mass Effect device similar to 'the Tech Specialist', 'the Biotic Specialist', or even 'the Team Leader.' Simply because various people could fill the role of each never means that suddenly there was( time of relevance) x (number of people applicalbe) worth of game content. The game progression and playthrough was the same, with who you chose
simply being 'redundant.'

You still need to include those redundant files though. It's not like you have infinite GigaBytes to work with. Therefore anything will have to be a compromise between the two characters. That's not an issue with only one character.

The problem with what you are saying here is there are only two roles to fill. One being A and the other being K. It's not like anyone can be slotted into those roles like you can with "Team Leader" etc.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 22 février 2011 - 11:39 .

[Dean_the_Young]

The duplicate files are relatively minor, though: only what directly pertains to the Virmire Surivor. All they have to do is what they do with every other party member: record slightly-different forms of the same lines, and put in an avatar. And that's it.

The level doesn't change, the villain doesn't change, the enemies don't change, the scenario doesn't change, the content doesn't change much either. It doesn't have to be an entire copy per variable. It's not even the difference between a Male Paragon Shepard and a Female Renegade Shepard for any given level..

All a Virmire-survivor DLC requires is a little bit more of what Mass Effect does with every story mission already: record the same lines with a new voice and different wording, and then make the character avatar fit.

That isn't doubling the content in any meaningful sense of the word. Same content, different facelift for a particular character, and the majority of those gigbytes are exactly the same. It's not massive, nor is it hard. It's par for course in Mass Effect already.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 22 février 2011 - 11:58 .

[AkiKishi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The duplicate files are relatively minor, though: only what directly pertains to the Virmire Surivor. All they have to do is what they do with every other party member: record slightly-different forms of the same lines, and put in an avatar. And that's it.

The level doesn't change, the villain doesn't change, the enemies don't change, the scenario doesn't change, the content doesn't change much either. It doesn't have to be an entire copy per variable. It's not even the difference between a Male Paragon Shepard and a Female Renegade Shepard for any given level..

All a Virmire-survivor DLC requires is a little bit more of what Mass Effect does with every story mission already: record the same lines with a new voice and different wording, and then make the character avatar fit.

That isn't doubling the content in any meaningful sense of the word. Same content, different facelift for a particular character, and the majority of those gigbytes are exactly the same. It's not massive, nor is it hard. It's par for course in Mass Effect already.

Well if you consider that satisfactory more power to you.I would have thought the differences between a Biotic and a soldier warranted a bit more thought.Guess desperate people will accept anything though.

Although your still missing the point of specifically created content as opposed to reusable content that was already part of the main game. 

[didymos1120]

BobSmith101 wrote...


You still need to include those redundant files though. It's not like you have infinite GigaBytes to work with.

The dialogue files are actually rather small.  For the entire main game plus all the DLC that has dialogue, they take up all of 869 MiB on disk.  LotSB's dialogue, for everyone, adds up to all of ~16 MiB, and that's actually wasting some space due to the way sectors are allocated.

ETA: Oh, and of course, a TON of those files are never, ever heard in the game. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 23 février 2011 - 12:17 .

[Dean_the_Young]

The difference between a biotic and a soldier is an avatar keyed to pre-designed skill sets, with different dialogue lines. That's all it's ever been.. The same as the difference between Garrus and Jack on a mission, and the same as the many classes of Shepard: the character shapes the feel of the story through their lines, but Mass Effect has always gone by an overall plot that is largely character independent. The meat-and-potatoes post-Virmire content was largely identical regardless of survivor.



Specifically created content isn't the majority of the data. It certainly isn't a majority of the content. Yes, a Virmire survivor DLC would have to be played twice, with two different save files, to get the 'full' effect of both Ashley and Kaiden... but the overarching story, the level, the enemies, the setup, most of Shepard's lines... most the content, does not change.



Survivor-specific content amounts to an avatar and dialogue. All things considered, that isn't much. The car chase scene alone from LotSB would have taken more gigabytes than all of Liara's audiofiles combined.

[jeweledleah]

BobSmith101 wrote...


Well if you consider that satisfactory more power to you.I would have thought the differences between a Biotic and a soldier warranted a bit more thought.Guess desperate people will accept anything though.

Although your still missing the point of specifically created content as opposed to reusable content that was already part of the main game. 

just like they some how manage to put in various team members using their abilities apropriately depending on whom you take with you on various missions?  we already know that cut scenes are such copy cats that even if your character cannot use specific weapons, they will still use them/show them in a cut scene, tech armor/barier/ etc pretty much never shows up in a cut scene, etc.  the major resource expenditure would be writing slightly different lines to differentiate the characters  (no more Kashley, please) and slightly change the nature of confrontation (if we'll even get that rather then "we'll talk later, but we'll definitely talk" line) depending on whether you romanced or didn't romance a character.  Edited to add - I need to rephrase that - major writing resource expenditure in terms of creating differences between characters - not the memory load.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 23 février 2011 - 12:13 .

[jxd73]

Because different is better, anyone saying otherwise is wrong! Now, I'm off to hug a Reaper.

[PMC65]

[quote]ADLegend21 wrote...

most likely it's because they are the same species as Shepard. people called Kaidan a whiner, yet garrus whines through me1 and me2 and the majority of femsheps throw their fatigues and Kasumi heist dresses at him cuz he's a turian. Ashley's called a racist for being wary of Wrex and Garrus, yet Tali spouts nothing but Geth hate until Legion shows up (then she actively shoots at him if you bring him to haestrom) yet it's all hail Tali she's teh aethummmmms! they're held to unfair standards.[/quote



Totally agree! What cracks me up is that before the humans even arrive these other species have been at war with each other which involved genocide and genophage ... We are no better and no worse than the rest. All are vying for control and have a deep distrust of each other. What Shep and his crew represent is not the typical universe party and that is because of Shep's ability to keep the circus under control.

[Jzadek72]

I found Kaidan sterile and too clearly designed to simply be estrogen bait. He was sensitive, yet tough when he needed to be, and that voice was really annoying. He didn't seem to have any flaws other than being (supposedly) endearingly shy.

Ashley, on the other hand, is easily my favourite character in Mass Effect 1, and I'd love to have her back. She gets a lot of hate for being racist (even though the humans are the dogs in her analogy), but that xenophobia is a character flaw. She had the most depth of all ME1 squaddies, and the problem with that is that to be deep, flaws are necessary. People don't like those flaws a lot of the time.

Also, their human, and a sad number of people find that if someone isn't alien, they're boring.

[Commander_Adept]

Honestly, the second I could replace Ashley and Kaidan with Garrus, Tali or Wrex, I did so immediately. Ashley's almost useless in battle, very one dimensional and a total b*tch. The fact that she'll shoot Wrex against Shepard's orders is absolutely ridiculous. Kaidan is okay, but he's without any kind of personality. I'd save him over Ashley any time, but no way do I want them back in my squad in Mass 3.

[Jzadek72]

Commander_Adept wrote...

Honestly, the second I could replace Ashley and Kaidan with Garrus, Tali or Wrex, I did so immediately. Ashley's almost useless in battle, very one dimensional and a total b*tch. The fact that she'll shoot Wrex against Shepard's orders is absolutely ridiculous.

In what way is Ashley one-dimensional? And how is shooting Wrex ridiculous? It gives her a character trait - she's impulsive.

EDIT: The aliens tend to be more 1D. Wrex is grizzled mercenary, Garrus complains about C-Sec (I'm talking about ME1, the characters in ME2 were much improved) and Tali is a walking Quarian encyclopedia.

Modifié par Jzadek72, 17 mars 2011 - 09:11 .

[eye basher]

Why i hate Alenko simple he reminds me of Onasi and Rand but i couldn't kill them so i killed him insted and enjoyed oh and by the way i call him Crapleko.

[Quole]

It didnt help that they were useless in-game.

[sporeian]

I thought this thread died!

Jesus people, get over it. I did.

[Elite Midget]

Many see Ashley as Racist when she isn't.

Many see Kaiden as boring when he isn't.

They have a loophole that means that a VS must live. Wrex and the ME2 don't have any loopholes and none of them, as individuals, has to survive to ME3.

Ergo, Wrex and ME2 fans will hate VS and Liara greatly because of this.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 18 mars 2011 - 04:30 .

[Made Nightwing]

Quite simply, haters are gonna hate. I don't particularly dislike any character. They all have their good points, and that's why I love Mass Effect. They have their good traits, and bad ones. It makes them more believable. Would you like ME if it were simply. "Yay, let's all get along with the aliens with not even a hint of suspicion because it's not like we humans have an absolutely perfect record of trust amongst our own bloody species, let alone new ones."

[Spideywebs]

Sorry, but what is a VS?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Spideywebs wrote...

Sorry, but what is a VS?

Virmire Survivor.

[RailTracer]

To be honest I don't dislike either Ashley or Kaidan, though admittedly ME2 has made them easy to make fun of. My only real gripe about the characters is during Horizon and I'll explain why. Yes, I understand why they'd be apprehensive towards Shephard, but what I don't like is that you're forced to part on almost bitter terms. Being able to better defend yourself or explain things would have been nice (heck, I had Garrus along, why didn't his defending me carry any weight?).
In ME3 it would be nice if the writers are able to somehow take the evnts of Horizon and write something good from it. For example say they do join your crew in ME3, it would be interesting to show them adjusting to this new setting since most of the crew is composed of people they don't know and (depending on the amount of time passed between 2 and 3) may have spent more time around Shephard than they have and as a result know him better (especially if you opted to pursue a new relationship) and considering the people they do know chose to follow Shephard while they didn't would make things at least somewhat awkward. Another good example could be that in the time between 2 and 3 Ashley or Kaidan have risen up in rank and as a results have more responsibilities which could bring them into conflict with Shephard and co.

[Spideywebs]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Spideywebs wrote...

Sorry, but what is a VS?

Virmire Survivor.

Ahhhhh, thanks.

[DPSSOC]

RailTracer wrote...
My only real gripe about the characters is during Horizon and I'll explain why. Yes, I understand why they'd be apprehensive towards Shephard, but what I don't like is that you're forced to part on almost bitter terms. Being able to better defend yourself or explain things would have been nice (heck, I had Garrus along, why didn't his defending me carry any weight?).

Because no matter how you play ME1 Garrus worships you.  Unless you simply don't talk to him you're hist mentor, pushing him to either Paragon or Renegade.  The VS is going to know about that.  That's actually one thing I liked about the old crew that came with you; they're all people who'd follow you no matter what you did and as such cannot serve as good character witnesses.

I think that's the main thing about the VS that bothers people in ME2, they've been with you longer than anyone else yet they don't welcome you with open arms (like everyone else).  Personally I wish we had to work a bit harder to get Garrus, Tali, and even Wrex (Liara's understandable) to accept who we are.  It doesn't speak well of them when Aria shows more skepticism about who you are than they do.

[Elite Midget]

It's simple.

VS doesn't tolerate Cerberus and the stench it brings.

Alien Squaddies on the otherhand suddenly stop careing about Cerberus and how they aren't part of the big picture of said Organization. Since it's Shepard they'll obey and listen to the clearly ambitious TIM that wants to put Humanity as the Rulers of the Universe and all else under their heels.

[Almostfaceman]

 I don't hate the VS.  Judging by the dialogue they're given on Horizon however I wonder if the Bioware writers do... 

[Iakus]

Almostfaceman wrote...

 I don't hate the VS.  Judging by the dialogue they're given on Horizon however I wonder if the Bioware writers do... 

Indeed.